Does God know what He will be doing a trillion years from now?

[nebula]

 It boils down to this God can predict, prophesy, foretell anything He wants because He is more than capable to bring it to pass. It is a simple thing for God to have a crowd jeering in a courtyard and have three people recognize Peter as a Galilean who was with Jesus, to have Peter fear for his life and renounce the Lord and finally pinch the cock to crow more than once.

 

This comes across sounding as if Peter had not choice in the matter, that God wanted Peter to sin, and actually made sure that Peter fell into sin.

 

[alien224]

Yes He does know and since He knows He wont have to change His mind.

[TruthFirst]

 

All things are knowable to God.  They may not be knowable to man, but they are knowable to God.  I don't care if Enoob says I am in error, or if you agree with me.  I rarely ever agree with Enoob, and I don't agree with anyone that thinks God is limited in his knowledge.  I don't care if you think what I said sounds foolish.  I stand by every word.  I have spent a lot of time in scripture, and I didn't start out believing in pre-destination in this way, but after about my 13 or 14th time through, I noticed a pattern that couldn't be denied.  God knew everything that was going to happen before it occurred.  Even in the case of Peter.  Of course Jesus knew Peter would deny him thrice.  He told him so, and Peter went forward and did it.  Judas had no choice but to betray the Lord as that was what he was created to do.  I know enough about the Word to know there is no way you can prove me wrong from scripture, and I can easily give you more examples than I have to this point.  I can show you fulfilled prophesies from the OT that prove God is all knowing.  I can give you scripture that states God creates some vessels of honor and some of dishonor.  To believe what you say is to deny that God is really the potter and really has control over the clay. 

 

Jesus did not know Peter would deny Him before the cock crowed. Jesus divested Himself of His Glory, Godly attributes (which include omniscience), and received all knowledge and power from the Holy Spirit. He did this to become truly show by His example the it is possible to live a holy life with the Spirit as our guide. The Spirit was the one who empowered Jesus to heal, perform miracles, etc. The Spirit also reveal everything Jesus needed to know about the spirit world or what was lurking in the hearts of men or future knowledge. Jesus by submitting to the Father and living in the Spirit became our perfect example, proof that we can do that same today.

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: (Phil.2:5-7)

 

"Judas had no choice but to betray the Lord as that was what he was created to do."

 

The fact, that you believe that God would create a human being for the sole purpose of betraying Jesus and then send him to an eternal torment in hell with no choice whatsoever, is grievous. It is absolutely mind boggling that a God of infinite goodness and love who desires a relationship with every one of His creature could even think of such a diabolical scheme.

 

On that I bid you, Adieu.

[TruthFirst]

 

 It boils down to this God can predict, prophesy, foretell anything He wants because He is more than capable to bring it to pass. It is a simple thing for God to have a crowd jeering in a courtyard and have three people recognize Peter as a Galilean who was with Jesus, to have Peter fear for his life and renounce the Lord and finally pinch the cock to crow more than once.

 

This comes across sounding as if Peter had not choice in the matter, that God wanted Peter to sin, and actually made sure that Peter fell into sin.

 

 

 

No. no! God didn't wipe out Peter's free will, with enough guts he could have defended Jesus. Peter was a hothead but also a daring one. Sometimes to his advantage (walking on water) and other times not so much. (rebuked by Jesus) He was brave in the Garden yet cowardly in the courtyard. God knew him so well that He knew that if Peter was called out in a life and death situation he would react that way. He would fear for his life and renounce Jesus to save his skin. But greater again, God also knew that deep in his heart was a desire to follow Jesus. He knew that after 3 yrs. of ministry with Jesus, 1000 days of living by His side, constantly exposed to the love of the Father through Him, experiencing miracle after miracle, Peter would be able pick himself up, repent and move on. A hard lesson learned that only made him stronger and humbler and certainly one of the greatest apostles. It was only 2 months after that, he was the preaching to the masses.

[TruthFirst]

Yes He does know and since He knows He wont have to change His mind.

 

Yeah! Too bad He looses His free will.

[Guest Butero]

 

 

All things are knowable to God.  They may not be knowable to man, but they are knowable to God.  I don't care if Enoob says I am in error, or if you agree with me.  I rarely ever agree with Enoob, and I don't agree with anyone that thinks God is limited in his knowledge.  I don't care if you think what I said sounds foolish.  I stand by every word.  I have spent a lot of time in scripture, and I didn't start out believing in pre-destination in this way, but after about my 13 or 14th time through, I noticed a pattern that couldn't be denied.  God knew everything that was going to happen before it occurred.  Even in the case of Peter.  Of course Jesus knew Peter would deny him thrice.  He told him so, and Peter went forward and did it.  Judas had no choice but to betray the Lord as that was what he was created to do.  I know enough about the Word to know there is no way you can prove me wrong from scripture, and I can easily give you more examples than I have to this point.  I can show you fulfilled prophesies from the OT that prove God is all knowing.  I can give you scripture that states God creates some vessels of honor and some of dishonor.  To believe what you say is to deny that God is really the potter and really has control over the clay. 

 

Jesus did not know Peter would deny Him before the cock crowed. Jesus divested Himself of His Glory, Godly attributes (which include omniscience), and received all knowledge and power from the Holy Spirit. He did this to become truly show by His example the it is possible to live a holy life with the Spirit as our guide. The Spirit was the one who empowered Jesus to heal, perform miracles, etc. The Spirit also reveal everything Jesus needed to know about the spirit world or what was lurking in the hearts of men or future knowledge. Jesus by submitting to the Father and living in the Spirit became our perfect example, proof that we can do that same today.

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: (Phil.2:5-7)

 

"Judas had no choice but to betray the Lord as that was what he was created to do."

 

The fact, that you believe that God would create a human being for the sole purpose of betraying Jesus and then send him to an eternal torment in hell with no choice whatsoever, is grievous. It is absolutely mind boggling that a God of infinite goodness and love who desires a relationship with every one of His creature could even think of such a diabolical scheme.

 

On that I bid you, Adieu.

 

Yours is an emotion based response based on a bumper sticker image you have created in your mind that "God Is Love."  God has many things in his character, and to understand that, you have to have a good knowledge of the entire Bible and how God deals with people.  I stand by everything I said.  Adieu.

[Guest Butero]

 

Yes He does know and since He knows He wont have to change His mind.

 

Yeah! Too bad He looses His free will.

 

We make the decisions we do day in and day out, but God created us knowing exactly what we would do with those choices,  He programmed us to be the people we are.  Even this back and forth, and your decision to come in here and try to ruffle feathers was something God knew would take place before he created any of us.  I am supposed to disagree with you.  God knew how each of us would react to each other, and even now, you will react as you are created or programmed to react.  I don't know the reaction, but since God wrote the story, he knows the conclusion. 

[Mcgyver]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've been following along, and there are several issues that I would like you to explain, as I have a problem with them....(I removed the entire quotation in order to save space and enhance readability)

 

First is this statement:

 

Jesus did not know Peter would deny Him before the cock crowed. Jesus divested Himself of His Glory, Godly attributes (which include omniscience), and received all knowledge and power from the Holy Spirit. He did this to become truly show by His example the it is possible to live a holy life with the Spirit as our guide. The Spirit was the one who empowered Jesus to heal, perform miracles, etc. The Spirit also reveal everything Jesus needed to know about the spirit world or what was lurking in the hearts of men or future knowledge. Jesus by submitting to the Father and living in the Spirit became our perfect example, proof that we can do that same today.

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: (Phil.2:5-7)

 

First of all, I can not see that this is supported scripturally...although certainly it is not the first time that I have heard it.

 

If Jesus divested Himself of any attribute of God, then He is not God...This is Kenosis and was a very early heresy addressed by the early church.

 

He did not "become" God, nor become "empowered" for His ministry at His baptism...His baptism was for the express purpose of revealing to Israel that Messiah had come. John 1:30-32 states: This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.”  And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him.

 

That God the Son depended on God the Holy Spirit to please God the Father is ludicrous...because all are of one essence...God.

 

John 1:1-14 settles the issue of whether or not Jesus is God.

 

There is however a definite difference between divesting Himself of the attributes of God, and choosing to rather operate within the limitations of the "human experience". Jesus did not divest Himself of anything...He chose to live as a man...but was also fully God.

 

The Hypostatic Union (That Jesus was both fully God and fully man) is foundational to Christianity

 

Even then we see glimpses of His glory (the transfiguration on the mount), and His omniscience (Matthew 9:3-5: And at once some of the scribes said within themselves, “This Man blasphemes!” But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts? For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise and walk’? )

 

Mark puts it this way: Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” But immediately, when Jesus perceived in His spirit that they reasoned thus within themselves, He said to them, “Why do you reason about these things in your hearts? Mark 2:7-8

 

Saying that Jesus had to operate by the power of the Holy Spirit means that He was not capable of operating independently of the Holy Spirit which (coming full circle) strikes at the very deity of our Lord.

 

Secondly is this statement:

 

The fact, that you believe that God would create a human being for the sole purpose of betraying Jesus and then send him to an eternal torment in hell with no choice whatsoever, is grievous. It is absolutely mind boggling that a God of infinite goodness and love who desires a relationship with every one of His creature could even think of such a diabolical scheme.

 

John 17:11-12 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. (NKJV)

 

I submit the following for consideration:

 

1) One of the twelve was certain to be doomed in order that scripture would be fulfilled. (Ps 41:9, Zech.11:12, et.al)

 

2) That this plan was put into place from the time that man fell in the garden (Gen 3:15)

 

3) That God Himself ordained that Messiah would be betrayed and given over to the executioner

 

4) That the cross was necessary and unavoidable in order to complete His redemptive plan for mankind. (Ps 22, Isaiah 53, et.al)

 

5) And all this from the "foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:19-22)

 

Obviously...one was chosen to be doomed...

 

How, in light of the scriptures and the prophecy do you work around this?

[Openly Curious]

 

 

I hope I don't rattle to many cages with this one.

Hi TruthFirst,  I have now read through the entire thread "Does God know what He will be doing a trillion years from now?"   What I do not know and am left confused over after reading through the thread and maybe you can help me out on this.  My questions are 1.) What specific doctrine are you trying to convince me of.  2.) By using and debating this question "Does God know what He will be doing a trillion years from now?"  How does my personal belief whether I believe the question is true or false validate whatever your doctrine is to be true?    Because I am not clear on what your doctrinal standpoint specifically is about at this point.  So if you could clarify for me what doctine you debating it would help me in my understanding?  Thank you for your help.

 

 

I don't believe that these beliefs of mine have to be encapsulated in some kind of doctrine.

Read my post to Nebula directly above I think that might clarify where I'm coming from.

I'm not trying to defend a doctrine. I'm trying to get people maybe to rethink there position on certain things because some of the stuff I've read contradicts itself in the same sentence and in other places the statements are outright false.

Anyway thanks for your interest.

 

 

If you don't believe what you are teaching is doctrine then why did you start this thread in the doctrinal section?      All doctrine means is something taught and it seems to me like you are trying to teach us something in this thread.  It looks to me like you are saying that God is not all knowing, and I'm trying to figure out why you feel like it's important for me to be convinced and come to believe as you do.   Is it your belief that by causing people somehow to think that God doesn't know everything,  that they then will in turn reject the predestination doctrines taught it the scripture?

 

[chloe_fantastic]

No. no! God didn't wipe out Peter's free will, with enough guts he could have defended

 

And if this would've happened, it would've made Jesus out to be a liar, because He'd already told Peter he'd do it.