Will there be a second chance for salvation after the rapture?

[OneLight]

This gets clearer each time I read it.

Mind you there are only 144,000 sealed, and they are sealed just before the 7 angels start to sound. 144 thousand is such a small number according to how many christians there are?

 

I know we're not given a lot of info on the 144,000 but what do you see as their purpose?

Hi Last Daze

 

I see two groups.

1.  The masses that came out of tribulation and washed their robes white in the blood of the lamb.  Mind you their robes are only cleansed after they are persecuted.  They chose Christ in the end and prepared to die for his sake.

2.  The small group, the 144,000 who followed the lamb whereever he went.  This means they are not luke-warm, but must be true followers existing at the end times.  Whether Jew or gentile, they are Christ's.  I believe they already washed their robe white during their life, and not just "at the end"  They are called the "first-fruits".  So they must be the "first" of something.

 

Revelation 14:1   And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

 

They are there with Christ, but where are the masses that were mentioned?  Not there yet as it appears.  They must be taken up first, just before the others.  I don't think these ones will be killed during the tribulation, but spared somehow, like it was during the passover in Egypt when the angels were not allowed to harm those who had the mark on their door.  Same type of thing, as they are sealed and protected, and there is only a small number.

Revelation 7:1-8

 

After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.

Revelation14:1-5

Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.

[Last Daze]

 

 

 

This gets clearer each time I read it.

Mind you there are only 144,000 sealed, and they are sealed just before the 7 angels start to sound. 144 thousand is such a small number according to how many christians there are?

 

I know we're not given a lot of info on the 144,000 but what do you see as their purpose?

 

Hi Last Daze

 

I see two groups.

1.  The masses that came out of tribulation and washed their robes white in the blood of the lamb.  Mind you their robes are only cleansed after they are persecuted.  They chose Christ in the end and prepared to die for his sake.

2.  The small group, the 144,000 who followed the lamb whereever he went.  This means they are not luke-warm, but must be true followers existing at the end times.  Whether Jew or gentile, they are Christ's.  I believe they already washed their robe white during their life, and not just "at the end"  They are called the "first-fruits".  So they must be the "first" of something.

 

Revelation 14:1   And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

 

They are there with Christ, but where are the masses that were mentioned?  Not there yet as it appears.  They must be taken up first, just before the others.  I don't think these ones will be killed during the tribulation, but spared somehow, like it was during the passover in Egypt when the angels were not allowed to harm those who had the mark on their door.  Same type of thing, as they are sealed and protected, and there is only a small number.

 

Revelation 7:1-8

 

After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

 

of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.

Revelation14:1-5

Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.

 

I've always been curious about this phrase: These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins.   I can't imagine that this is talking about sex since in a marriage relationship its not defiling.  Maybe a spiritual application?

[Salty]

 

 

Just to be clear, when Jesus shuts the door, like with the five foolish virgins in His ten virgin's parable of Matt.25, that is at the time of His coming after the tribulation. That is when He will say to those who work iniquity to, "depart from Me", which is basically like, 'get away from Me'.

 

The Isaiah 26 Scripture about going into the chambers is not about a rapture prior to the tribulation. We have long since had the example of how God told the children of Israel in Egypt to go into their chambers until His indignation upon the Egyptians was past, and for none of Israel to go out into the night during that event. Per that example God protected His people WHILE they were on earth. He had no need to remove them off the earth. Likewise it shall be when He sends His consuming fire upon the earth for the last days of this present world.

The same as he did in times before so shall he do in times to come

 

Hi Salty.

 

I am still learning how to post correctly.

I agree that paradise will be in Jerusalem.

Paradise for the chosen jews,but a kingdom to rule for the resurrected saints. 

 

I also believe that the first Paradise was in Jerusalem,and the tree of life is right where the temple stood

in the days of Solomon. Right in the most Holy where only the hight priest could enter.

Do you agree?

 

 

Yes, I believe God's Eden was where the area of Jerusalem is today. Look at the end of Isaiah 19 also and see how that is a pointer for the future also.

 

I also believe something else about His Paradise on earth. It will encompass the whole earth, and not just one small part of it in the Middle East. The Waters of His River are shown flowing out the sanctuary in Ezek.47 and it is said other waters it contacts are healed. I believe His River will feed all the rivers on earth at that time, with no more sea. I see the start of that with Christ's Millennium per Ezek.47, but not the full Paradise until the new heavens and a new earth after hell and the wicked go into the lake of fire.

[Salty]

I've always been curious about this phrase: These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins.   I can't imagine that this is talking about sex since in a marriage relationship its not defiling.  Maybe a spiritual application?

 

 

 

Yes, it's given in the spiritual sense. Remember the "chaste virgin" idea Apostle Paul taught in 2 Corinthians 11. Our Lord Jesus taught that symbolic metaphor too. It's a theme that first appears in the OT prophets involving the idea of true worship vs. false worship, which is why God called the two houses of Israel harlot sisters in Ezek.23, and also told His prophet Hosea to marry a harlot and name their children according to how Israel had fallen away from Him.

[Guest Jesse]

 

 

 

 

This gets clearer each time I read it.

Mind you there are only 144,000 sealed, and they are sealed just before the 7 angels start to sound. 144 thousand is such a small number according to how many christians there are?

 

I know we're not given a lot of info on the 144,000 but what do you see as their purpose?

 

Hi Last Daze

 

I see two groups.

1.  The masses that came out of tribulation and washed their robes white in the blood of the lamb.  Mind you their robes are only cleansed after they are persecuted.  They chose Christ in the end and prepared to die for his sake.

2.  The small group, the 144,000 who followed the lamb whereever he went.  This means they are not luke-warm, but must be true followers existing at the end times.  Whether Jew or gentile, they are Christ's.  I believe they already washed their robe white during their life, and not just "at the end"  They are called the "first-fruits".  So they must be the "first" of something.

 

Revelation 14:1   And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

 

They are there with Christ, but where are the masses that were mentioned?  Not there yet as it appears.  They must be taken up first, just before the others.  I don't think these ones will be killed during the tribulation, but spared somehow, like it was during the passover in Egypt when the angels were not allowed to harm those who had the mark on their door.  Same type of thing, as they are sealed and protected, and there is only a small number.

 

Revelation 7:1-8

 

After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

 

of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.

Revelation14:1-5

Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.

 

I've always been curious about this phrase: These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins.   I can't imagine that this is talking about sex since in a marriage relationship its not defiling.  Maybe a spiritual application?

 

That means that they are not defiled with any false religion. for they are spiritually virgins.

 

Jesse.

[Guest Jesse]

The 144000 sealed consists of christian jews.

We may have some jewish blood in us.

Because the jews were scattered in all the earth 2500yrs ago.

Remember also: the first shall be last, and the last shall be first.

The jews were chosen first; they will be resurrected last.

The christians are last; they will be resurrected first.

They will rule over the jews in the kingdom. They will be taught Christ by the saints.

And the jews will teach the gentiles outside. The kingdom will be a cube.see rev.21:17.

 

The first fruits are with Christ the Lamb. See rev14.

 

jesse.

[Fez]

 

 

 

 

 

This gets clearer each time I read it.

Mind you there are only 144,000 sealed, and they are sealed just before the 7 angels start to sound. 144 thousand is such a small number according to how many christians there are?

 

I know we're not given a lot of info on the 144,000 but what do you see as their purpose?

 

Hi Last Daze

 

I see two groups.

1.  The masses that came out of tribulation and washed their robes white in the blood of the lamb.  Mind you their robes are only cleansed after they are persecuted.  They chose Christ in the end and prepared to die for his sake.

2.  The small group, the 144,000 who followed the lamb whereever he went.  This means they are not luke-warm, but must be true followers existing at the end times.  Whether Jew or gentile, they are Christ's.  I believe they already washed their robe white during their life, and not just "at the end"  They are called the "first-fruits".  So they must be the "first" of something.

 

Revelation 14:1   And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

 

They are there with Christ, but where are the masses that were mentioned?  Not there yet as it appears.  They must be taken up first, just before the others.  I don't think these ones will be killed during the tribulation, but spared somehow, like it was during the passover in Egypt when the angels were not allowed to harm those who had the mark on their door.  Same type of thing, as they are sealed and protected, and there is only a small number.

 

Revelation 7:1-8

 

After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

 

of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.

Revelation14:1-5

Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.

 

I've always been curious about this phrase: These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins.   I can't imagine that this is talking about sex since in a marriage relationship its not defiling.  Maybe a spiritual application?

 

That means that they are not defiled with any false religion. for they are spiritually virgins.

 

Jesse.

 

Well explain this then?

 

not defiled with women

 

Women defiled their religion?

[Sister]

I also believe something else about His Paradise on earth. It will encompass the whole earth, and not just one small part of it in the Middle East.

 

Hi Salty, the measurements of the kingdom are here;

 

Revelation 21:16   And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

 

In our terms, that is 2414 km square.

 

The Waters of His River are shown flowing out the sanctuary in Ezek.47 and it is said other waters it contacts are healed. I believe His River will feed all the rivers on earth at that time, with no more sea. I see the start of that with Christ's Millennium per Ezek.47, but not the full Paradise until the new heavens and a new earth after hell and the wicked go into the lake of fire.

 

 

 

I agree!

[Salty]

 

I also believe something else about His Paradise on earth. It will encompass the whole earth, and not just one small part of it in the Middle East.

 

Hi Salty, the measurements of the kingdom are here;

 

Revelation 21:16   And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

 

In our terms, that is 2414 km square.

 

The Waters of His River are shown flowing out the sanctuary in Ezek.47 and it is said other waters it contacts are healed. I believe His River will feed all the rivers on earth at that time, with no more sea. I see the start of that with Christ's Millennium per Ezek.47, but not the full Paradise until the new heavens and a new earth after hell and the wicked go into the lake of fire.

 

 

 

I agree!

 

 

That's the holy city's measurements alright. The Paradise idea I'm understanding covers the whole earth as the 'new heavens and a new earth'. But Eden is indeed applied to Zion (Isaiah 51:3)

[Guest Jesse]

I have not found any haughty and proud so far,which is so good.

For pride is a great stumbling block.

We can get so much knowledge that we will jump in the air and rejoice.

We are putting the puzzles in the right places,using the scriptures.

The big picture will immerge.

 

Paradise is in the square, it will be big. 

The outside world will be all  the survivors of the gentiles.Many also will worship the lord,and come in

every year to celebrate the feast of tabernacles.Zech.14:16--21.

 

jesse.