Lottery Tickets

[OakWood]

Come on people,calm down. We're all starting to fight now.

 

Gambling in the strictest sense of the word, probably is sinful. The article started off being about lottery tickets.

There's a difference between going into a casino, winning a bit and then gambling the winnings. With a lottery ticket the win is not immediate, you have to wait and see what the outcome is, so you're not really tempted to gamble the winnings.

Now if you bought a lottery ticket, won a million and then went out and bought a million lottery tickets with the winnings - then that would be gambling!

 

There's an old saying, never flutter more than you can afford. When I buy a lottery ticket (which is rare), I can afford to waste the one pound that I spend on it, so it's no loss if I don't win anything. It's not like I'm gambling the house, the car or a whole weeks wages.

Yes, of course, I want to win. Is that greed? Maybe, maybe not. A man runs a business hoping to make some money, he doesn't do it hoping to earn nothing, so wanting to make money is not a sin - it's your view of money, what you do with it and how you feel about it that determines whether it is sinful or not.

[Guest LadyC]

who's fighting oak? i asked hippie a question based on his post. the closest thing to "fighting" was a disagreement between shiloh and i, which we have agreed to let go.  

 

i think in general, the lottery and casinos are both categorized as gambling. so regardless of the form it takes, it's still within the topic. the original question was whether the person was wrong to tithe a lottery ticket. i'm not sure if that meant tithing on the winnings from a lottery ticket (to which i'd say absolutely!) or whether that meant putting the actual ticket in the offering plate (which would be very tacky if not downright offensive.) in my initial response, i told the story of the time that i unexpectedly turned a single buck into $250 in a few short minutes, gave God the glory, gave God a portion, and treated the ladies in my church group to lunch.

 

what we do seem to have gotten away from is what we do with what we're given, even if it comes from a source identified as gambling. do we use it to glorify God? do we thank Him for it? or do we get greedy with it and forget whom all our blessings come from in the first place?

[Hippie333]

just curious, hippie, as to what percentage the "house" makes on movie tickets/popcorn/sodas..... as opposed to how much the consumer gets in return?

Those two are not a similar comparison.....a movie ..you are paying for goods and services. In a gambling situation you are playing in the hopes of getting more money.....I also stated do as you wish, I simply won't as I have stated why in my previous post. Just noting that 70% of all the people that go in .. don't win.....100% loss...and that the proceeds do not just go to above the table, legal profit areas. If one does win....tithe it....playing wise..it's totally up to you....and if you feel convicted...don't.

 

 

 

God Bless,

Hip

[Guest LadyC]

 

just curious, hippie, as to what percentage the "house" makes on movie tickets/popcorn/sodas..... as opposed to how much the consumer gets in return?

Those two are not a similar comparison.....a movie ..you are paying for goods and services. In a gambling situation you are playing in the hopes of getting more money.....I also stated do as you wish, I simply won't as I have stated why in my previous post. Just noting that 70% of all the people that go in .. don't win.....100% loss...and that the proceeds do not just go to above the table, legal profit areas.

 

 

you're falling into the same mistake shiloh made earlier, assuming that anyone who is gambling is doing so in hopes of winning money. there are a whole lot of people, myself included, who know that the odds are never in our favor, but who occasionally enjoy gambling as a form of entertainment. in that sense, it is identical to someone who goes into a movie theater, spending some money for a couple of hours of entertainment.

 

and really, no matter where we choose to spend money, we have no idea where some of the profit goes. the local grocery store might be funding terrorist cells. the mom-and-pop candy store might be dealing drugs from the back room. i have no proof that casino money is being used illegally. i can assume that is probably true, but i don't know it, nor can anyone prove it. i do know that a lot of the profits go to legitimate and good causes, though, and i know that first-hand.

 

anyway, my point that i'd like you to receive is that not all people who "gamble" do so for greedy reasons. sometimes it really is just to spend a few hours having some fun. and christians should be careful of assuming they know the intent of a person's heart.

[OakWood]

who's fighting oak? i asked hippie a question based on his post. the closest thing to "fighting" was a disagreement between shiloh and i, which we have agreed to let go.

 

i think in general, the lottery and casinos are both categorized as gambling. so regardless of the form it takes, it's still within the topic. the original question was whether the person was wrong to tithe a lottery ticket. i'm not sure if that meant tithing on the winnings from a lottery ticket (to which i'd say absolutely!) or whether that meant putting the actual ticket in the offering plate (which would be very tacky if not downright offensive.) in my initial response, i told the story of the time that i unexpectedly turned a single buck into $250 in a few short minutes, gave God the glory, gave God a portion, and treated the ladies in my church group to lunch.

 

what we do seem to have gotten away from is what we do with what we're given, even if it comes from a source identified as gambling. do we use it to glorify God? do we thank Him for it? or do we get greedy with it and forget whom all our blessings come from in the first place?

 

Nobody was really fighting, but it appeared as if it was turning into one.

Anyway, I feel that the real point of this article is the fact that he was praying to God and making him a deal. You don't make deals with God in condition for his favour, and to me that was the real issue, but then it turned into the subject of casinos and all sorts of things.

I would never buy a lottery ticket and then pray to God for a win - you don't ask God for things like that. If you win, you win and if you don't you don't.

 

By the way, I agree 100% with your last paragraph.

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

Ok this customer came in and bought a lottery ticket and said something like if he wins God will get 10% of it. Can you do lottery tickets as tithe. Will God accept it. It God's money after all.

 

What do you think tigger398? Will God accept it?

 

I wouldn't do it. I would give God money out of my pay. Customers will buy me lottery tickets at work sometimes. If I win I spend it on things. It makes me feel like if I was going to robb someone, and give God the money I stole. Just don't sit well with me, but that's just me ok, not judging anyone. Now if I have a few dollars laying around and I don't need anything. I might buy a couple of tickets.

 

 

I see what you mean about giving God money out of your pay. We're called to be cheerful givers as Believers.

I don't think the lottery is stolen money. People play of their own free will. Nobody is holding a gun to their head telling them to do it.

I have co-workers who probably buy a few lottery tickets a month. They buy it all together. To my knowledge they've never won more than $20. Lol.  

If they'd take the $10 a month they spent in say the last year (Say 50 weeks to account for holidays or vacations where they don't buy lottery tickets together) that would be $500 they could've given, saved, or spent elsewhere. But hey it's fun for them so that's fine.

God bless,

GE

[Hippie333]

 

 

just curious, hippie, as to what percentage the "house" makes on movie tickets/popcorn/sodas..... as opposed to how much the consumer gets in return?

Those two are not a similar comparison.....a movie ..you are paying for goods and services. In a gambling situation you are playing in the hopes of getting more money.....I also stated do as you wish, I simply won't as I have stated why in my previous post. Just noting that 70% of all the people that go in .. don't win.....100% loss...and that the proceeds do not just go to above the table, legal profit areas.

 

 

you're falling into the same mistake shiloh made earlier, assuming that anyone who is gambling is doing so in hopes of winning money. there are a whole lot of people, myself included, who know that the odds are never in our favor, but who occasionally enjoy gambling as a form of entertainment. in that sense, it is identical to someone who goes into a movie theater, spending some money for a couple of hours of entertainment.

 

and really, no matter where we choose to spend money, we have no idea where some of the profit goes. the local grocery store might be funding terrorist cells. the mom-and-pop candy store might be dealing drugs from the back room. i have no proof that casino money is being used illegally. i can assume that is probably true, but i don't know it, nor can anyone prove it. i do know that a lot of the profits go to legitimate and good causes, though, and i know that first-hand.

 

anyway, my point that i'd like you to receive is that not all people who "gamble" do so for greedy reasons. sometimes it really is just to spend a few hours having some fun. and christians should be careful of assuming they know the intent of a person's heart.

 

I never stated it was played only for greed.....but that it was played for the hope of more money.....whether it's greed or not is another level of play/intent/action/reaction.....but in all gambling....you play to win money. My statement that I would like you to receive is ....that it is played for the hope to win and that playing is totally up to you or whomever else and if convicted about playing...don't.

[other one]

I am finding this thread to be rather fascinating...

 

We go to a lot of concerts at the casinos here in central Oklahoma and part of the time when we get there early I will put a five in the slot machnes and see how long it takes me to use it all up......   it is quite entertaining....   out of all the times we've done that I think I had more than five dollars when the concert started.

 

I know a lot of people who frequent the slot machines and I don't think any of them expect to win long term......   and it is really interesting to watch people while we wait for the shows to start.

 

If you want to see real serious gambling addictions you need to go to horse races.....  

 

slot machines over the life of the machine keep from ten to fifteen percent of the money put into them.   There are state regulations here as to the amount that they can legally keep.   I've seen data showing as much as 90% pay backs on the slot machines..... 

 

So when one does go to the casino and wins for the night, they are just winning money that someone else has lost......     I have friends who brag about how much they have won on a weekend, but you can't get them into a conversation about how many weekends there are in between the wins..      Most everyone I know don't expect to win gambling unless they play cards......    and some of them are very very good.   And when they get very very very good, the casinos will not let them play.

 

 

In reading this thread it seems to me that some here don't really have a grasp on why most people to to casinos....   it is very true that there are some people who spend money there that they shouldn't........    but those kinds of people tend to waste their money on something whether it's gambling, cars, airplanes, boats or whatnot......

if you want to talk about a money loosing hobby get into a real discussion with someone who owns a boat or two, or an airplane....      both in the general sense are used for pleasure and I don't see any difference in spending a hundred dollars in a weekend in slot machines, or filling up the gas tank on my pontoon boat.......   either is for personal pleasure.....    and my boat has zero percent change of giving any of that hundred dollars back.  Maybe a few pounds of fish.......   I can assure you that it's much cheaper at Red Lobster.

[GoldenEagle]

 

1.  I didn't say that all people who gamble end up with their lives destroyed.  I am sure there are people who beat the odds, but that doesn't sanitize gambling.

 

As to #1… No you didn’t say all people who gamble end up with their lives destroyed. But it is certainly implied here where you say that “Gambling is self destructive. not opinion and there are many sad, broken people who lost their homes and their families because of it.  That is also fact.   I don't have to show you a verse that gambling is a sin.  The self-destruction it causes in people's lives is enough to show it is a sin.”

 

 

Gambling is self destructive. That is a fact, not opinion and there are many sad, broken people who lost their homes and their families because of it.  That is also fact.   I don't have to show you a verse that gambling is a sin.  The self-destruction it causes in people's lives is enough to show it is a sin.  Tell you what, you show me a verse that says it's a sin to molest a baby. And when you can do that, I will show you a verse that says it is a sin to gamble. 

 

 

No, to use your own line of thinking you've presented many times on the boards, you presented something as fact. The burden of proof is on you to back your statement. Not on anyone else to prove another point (molestation of a baby for example). If you cannot back your statement up with Scripture than it is just a personal conviction or personal preference. Sorry brother.

 

Notice as well there’s no exceptions to your statements. Notice too there’s no room to disagree with you as you stand on "the side with the facts" (no evidence which has been presented to back your argument). Anyone who disagrees with you is wrong apparently. Now, given your experience as you see others lives ruined because of it I can see your distaste for gambling. Perhaps this is even a struggle for you or someone you love. But it is not a struggle for everyone.

 

I think Sheniy put it quite well (my addition in green):

 

The problem in the church comes when I say "alcohol/rock music/knitting {Gamblig} is bad for me {or someone I love or know}, therefore it is bad for everyone," and I hold others to that standard.

 

Yes alcohol in excess is self-destructive. Alcohol in small doses is not. And not everyone who drinks alcohol becomes an alcoholic.

I have enjoyed playing poker primarily online for years though with kids I've kind of given up that hobby. Only one time did I play for money. It was an entrance fee for $50 or 60. It was fun. I'm not a gambling addict. lol

Sorry, but do you see where it could seem that you are saying that ALL people who gamble end up with their lives destroyed?

 

God bless,

GE

[Guest LadyC]

 

 

 

just curious, hippie, as to what percentage the "house" makes on movie tickets/popcorn/sodas..... as opposed to how much the consumer gets in return?

Those two are not a similar comparison.....a movie ..you are paying for goods and services. In a gambling situation you are playing in the hopes of getting more money.....I also stated do as you wish, I simply won't as I have stated why in my previous post. Just noting that 70% of all the people that go in .. don't win.....100% loss...and that the proceeds do not just go to above the table, legal profit areas.

 

 

you're falling into the same mistake shiloh made earlier, assuming that anyone who is gambling is doing so in hopes of winning money. there are a whole lot of people, myself included, who know that the odds are never in our favor, but who occasionally enjoy gambling as a form of entertainment. in that sense, it is identical to someone who goes into a movie theater, spending some money for a couple of hours of entertainment.

 

and really, no matter where we choose to spend money, we have no idea where some of the profit goes. the local grocery store might be funding terrorist cells. the mom-and-pop candy store might be dealing drugs from the back room. i have no proof that casino money is being used illegally. i can assume that is probably true, but i don't know it, nor can anyone prove it. i do know that a lot of the profits go to legitimate and good causes, though, and i know that first-hand.

 

anyway, my point that i'd like you to receive is that not all people who "gamble" do so for greedy reasons. sometimes it really is just to spend a few hours having some fun. and christians should be careful of assuming they know the intent of a person's heart.

 

I never stated it was played only for greed.....but that it was played for the hope of more money.....whether it's greed or not is another level of play/intent/action/reaction.....but in all gambling....you play to win money. My statement that I would like you to receive is ....that it is played for the hope to win and that playing is totally up to you or whomever else and if convicted about playing...don't.

 

then that would mean that i am personally lying when i say that when i do occasionally gamble, i don't go in it with the hope of winning more money. i go in with the hope of enjoying a few minutes or hours (depending on whether i start with a buck or a 20). 

 

i promise, i'm not lying. therefore, your assumption that "it was played for the hope of more money" is incorrect. i'm not trying to belittle you hippie, or to beat you up or anything else. i'm just trying to get across the point that when ANYone assigns a motivation to another for their actions, it is making an assumption about the intent of that person's heart.... and as christians, we are not permitted to do that, because only God can see the intent of the heart. when we apply our own human logic to another's actions, we fall into a trap that is both judgmental and sinful.

 

playing for "hope of more money" and playing for entertainment are two very different things.... and both are valid reasons why some people buy lottery tickets or play poker (or any other form of gambling.)

 

not trying to force my views on you, just trying to broaden yours so that your view doesn't paint a picture of me.