Revelation 13

[Last Daze]

Right, so the covenant of animal sacrifices that he hates so much he will help establish it at the start of the week? He will help set up something he hates so much....mmmmmm? No I dont think so..

 

I don't see it as something he hates so much as something that's not necessary anymore.  After all, the false prophet (antichrist) claims go be God.

[Salty]

Salty

 

Right, so the covenant of animal sacrifices that he hates so much he will help establish it at the start of the week? He will help set up something he hates so much....mmmmmm? No I dont think so..

 

Ever heard about the burden of Jerusalem? I somehow don't think animal sacrifices is going to ease this burden, nor is that going to evoke the pure wrath of the antichrist...If you were the antichrist you really think animal sacrifices to God is going to be your main issue?

 

Perhaps consider a far greater issue, um called Jerusalem, more importantly the right of Israel to exist, the holy covenant was all about God’s gift of the Land to the physical descendants of Abraham. 

 

Its laughable to think the antichrist would invade or take over Israel simply to stop animal sacrifices as his main objective, I mean this is why the Arabs are so against the Jews, because they want to establish animal sacrifices again, I mean it has nothing to do with the right of jews to exist and their right to jerusalem?

 

Jewish right to Jerusalem is at the heart of what God promised. That is what is holy and that is what angers the Antichrist.

 

Call it laughable you may, but it is God's Word as written in those Scriptures of Daniel.

 

Your hatred of the Arab peoples is probably one of the main walls you have put up to not allow our Heavenly Father to show you the meaning of those Daniel Scriptures. That right of the Jews to exist in Jerusalem is the political argument going on today between Jews and Palestinians, not the subject of those Daniel Scriptures I quoted of what God showed Daniel the coming Antichrist in Jerusalem will do.

[Salty]

 

Right, so the covenant of animal sacrifices that he hates so much he will help establish it at the start of the week? He will help set up something he hates so much....mmmmmm? No I dont think so..

 

I don't see it as something he hates so much as something that's not necessary anymore.  After all, the false prophet (antichrist) claims go be God.

 

 

Correct, the first half of Daniel's "one week" is showing how the Antichrist comes to power through trickery (flatteries) and peace. But one of the most telling points in his coming to power is with the "small people" reference. That's pointing to a small group of Jews in Jerusalem that will help him come to power, traitors in their midst, the "tares" of Matt.13, the "synagogue of Satan" literally that worship Lucifer as their 'rock'.

[Salty]

 

 

Your interpretation is the issue not scripture...the notion that the Antichrist will wax hot in his heart in a fit of rage against animal sacrifices, yet at the same time establishes it? The Antichrist establishes something holy? that is laughable

 

 

Does that mean you seek the return of animal sacrifices per the Old Covenant, and re-establishing of another Jewish temple with the Levitical priesthood in Jerusalem again? Sounds like you may SUPPORT all that, which might be the reason why you mock the idea the coming Antichrist bringing those sacrifices again, and building that temple.

 

The early Church fathers of the 1st and 2nd century were right on with this matter, they agreed that the Antichrist will build the next Jewish temple in Jerusalem. And isn't the Antichrist building that temple for the unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem an more ludicrous idea in your mind?

 

Sorry I scared you. To you the Antichrist causes the old covenant sacrifices to start again is crazy, but his building the Jewish temple is not? OK, such are the minds of many today, working in reverse.

[Salty]

 

salty

 

Sorry I scared you. To you the Antichrist causes the old covenant sacrifices to start again is crazy, but his building the Jewish temple is not? OK, such are the minds of many today, working in reverse.

 

 

Um...where do i also support the idea that the antichrist builds the jewish temple?

 

 

You do support a return of old covenant sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood worship by Jews in Jerusalem, with a temple, right?

[Salty]

Salty

 

You do support a return of old covenant sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood worship by Jews in Jerusalem, with a temple, right?

 

 

Thats not what the issue is, where did I say I support the idea that the Antichrist builds the temple? key word is antichrist

 

Do you support those things, because it sounds like it in your writings, since you seem to not be able to grasp that the coming Antichrist will be the one in authority in that time to re-institute those things.

[Salty]

 

 

Salty

 

You do support a return of old covenant sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood worship by Jews in Jerusalem, with a temple, right?

 

 

Thats not what the issue is, where did I say I support the idea that the Antichrist builds the temple? key word is antichrist

 

Do you support those things, because it sounds like it in your writings, since you seem to not be able to grasp that the coming Antichrist will be the one in authority in that time to re-institute those things.

 

 

Please pay attention, you said the following

 

Sorry I scared you. To you the Antichrist causes the old covenant sacrifices to start again is crazy, but his building the Jewish temple is not? OK, such are the minds of many today, working in reverse.

 

 

Where did I say I also support the Idea of the Antichrist rebuilding of the temple?

 

You do support a return of old covenant sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood worship by Jews in Jerusalem, with a temple, right?

 

 

How does this re-establishment have any connections with the Antichrist?

 

 

Do you support the JEWS IN JERUSALEM rebuilding the temple and DOING ANIMAL SACRIFICES there again in Jerusalem? Is that clear enough?

[ARGOSY]

 

So that's a bad thing the Jewish bankers funded the allied forces and the USA in WW1?

 

 

Phew long post! Its a bad thing that Jews are taking on a Messianic role before the timing of the coming of their true Messiah. Its something like the tower of babel, building an Israeli world empire before the millenial kingdom of Jesus.

 

1) You missed my point. I didn't mean to imply Israel is exactly like every other nation in every way, in fact I always acknowledge that Israel is the chosen nation. In that we agree. What I meant is that biblically, historically, and also currently Israel does good things nationally, and bad things nationally. I'm stating the obvious really. Even under the good King David, Israel and David made some bad decisions.

 

2) When I asked about the invasion I was referring to the antichrist taking control of Israel. According to Daniel 11, the antichrist already has that control of Israel when he is alarmed by reports from the north and the east, can you please explain why after he takes control of Israel  he is alarmed from the direction of the Gog attack if you think he leads the Gog attack? (Gog also attacks from the north and the east)

 

3) Israel is not pure evil. none of the four beast empires is pure evil. Neither is the final empire pure evil. I never said that. I have been consistent that all countries do good things and do bad things. A "beast" may be "beastly" in the English language but in Greek it just refers to a large wild animal, like a wild bull/aurochs. Sometimes Israel fulfilled their Godly role in the OT, sometimes they rebelled. Israel today is the same. Yet I believe Europe will set up a world leader in Jerusalem and as Jesus warned Jews to beware of false Messiahs, so we as the church should watch out for any Jewish leader claiming to restore Israel and destroy Israel's enemies. This is what a Messiah is, if you understand what the word "Messiah" or "Christ" means. Jesus warned against future "Messiahs" and told Jews and Christians (the elect) to wait only for Him to appear.

Matthew 24  For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told you in advance. 26 So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. 27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 

 

Maybe we as Christians don't always understand what the word "Christ" means, using it in the context of Jesus' surname , but that isn't the case. It means a Jewish leader coming to set the nation of Israel free, and Jesus warned us of false Christs.

 

 

4) Amos 9 was specifically referring to the "planting" of Israel on the day of the Lord, by God.  This affirms my point that this current Israel has not been planted by God, but by the plans of man.

 

5) Some Arabs got on well with their Jewish neighbours , some didn't. Nevertheless my point is that God's biblical instruction to Jews was to treat the Gentiles well who lived among them. Instead there was ethnic cleansing of over 700 000 Palestinians in the 1948 war.  Do you feel the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians was justified revenge for the attacks on Jews across the Middle east? How do you feel about that?

 

6) You asked how Israel oppresses those in Gaza,its through an economic blockade. This has caused over 50% unemployment, and the Gaza residents have had to create a huge network of tunnels just to be able to trade with the outside world. This type of activity normally only occurs when a country/city is under siege, but in effect Israel is starving them out, refusing the Gaza residents trade with the outside world. These Gaza residents have stupidly retaliated with rockets. But they have been completely oppressed.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/22/gaza-uninhabitable-blockade-united-nations

 

7) Please explain how you feel God intervened in the 6-day war. It appears to me that Israel had the numerical, strategic, technical superiority. They won the war because they were better prepared in every way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

 

 

8) I mentioned God dragging Gog, so you could understand that God is sending Gog as an army of judgment. This does not make Gog a good army either, its two evil armies facing off. Yet Israel will repent and at that stage Israel wins the war.  In the past Israel never repented and the attacking army destroyed Israel, and yet still judgment came on the attacking army. Just because God uses an army of judgment does not imply that the attacking army (Rome/Babylon/Gog) should be good, or protected.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Argosy,

You said to inchrist -

 

`7) Please explain how you feel God intervened in the 6-day war. It appears to me that Israel had the numerical, strategic, technical superiority. They won the war because they were better prepared in every way.`

 

Speaking three weeks after the war ended, as he accepted an honorary degree from Hebrew University, Yitzhak Rabin gave his reasoning behind the success of Israel:

 

 

Our airmen, who struck the enemies' planes so accurately that no one in the world understands how it was done and people seek technological explanations or secret weapons; our armored troops who beat the enemy even when their equipment was inferior to his; our soldiers in all other branches... who overcame our enemies everywhere, despite the latter's superior numbers and fortifications-all these revealed not only coolness and courage in the battle but...an understanding that only their personal stand against the greatest dangers would achieve victory for their country and for their families, and that if victory was not theirs the alternative was annihilation.[163]

Within six days, Israel had won a decisive land war. Israeli forces had taken control of the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt, the West Bank and East Jerusalem from Jordan, and the Golan Heights from Syria.
 

[ARGOSY]

 Again denying God's miracles

 

 “If you follow my decrees and are careful to obey my commands, ... You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you. Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the sword before you.”

 

Israel is a smaller country than the surrounding countries, but in 1948 and in 1967 they had more trained military personnel at their disposal than the Arab alliance, and the support of the might of the west, and the financial backing of the west too.  They were better prepared, better trained and in many cases had better equipment. I don't see their victories as miraculous, merely a testament to good preparation.

 

Israel does not follow God's decrees and commands , they are very immersed into a New Age Kabbalistic interpretation of the Old Testament. Through this they lack spiritual awareness compared to ancient Israel.  

 

Regarding your point about Cyrus and the word "Christ", yes it means The Anointed One. Yes others can have the anointing, but when Jews were specifically discussing the coming of the anointed one among themselves they had a specific set of expectations about this future "king". He was to be of the line of David, he was to be their Jewish leader, and he was to destroy the armies of their enemies.  It was in this context that Jesus warned Jews (and Christians) to watch for those claiming to be such an "anointed one" during the tribulation. You may disagree, but this is definitely the way Jews regarded the word "Christ". 

 

Regarding Hamas, you seem to be implying that I am against the current invasion by Israel into the Gaza strip. I am not against this invasion, and have never said I was. What I have repeatedly said is that every country has done good and evil. So your assumption that I am against every action of Israel is completely wrong.   I am against the earlier economic embargo that  Israel has used to oppress the citizens of Gaza since 2006.