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Trinitron

What's So Heretical About Preterism?

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My experience with preterists is that they are arrogant and obstreperous.

They are long on extremely subjective passages in the Bible and totally ignore passages that disprove their beliefs.

"Soon" "near" "at hand" according to whom?

Man whose life span is but a wisp?

Or God who is eternal?

2 Peter 3:8 (AV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

And the seeing of the Lord's day before tasting death include the mount of transfiguration, the post resurrection appearances of the Lord, the

appearances of Jesus to Paul and to John the Revelator.

God is not finished with the Jews (Jeremiah 31:31 - 37)

God is not hyper-Calvinist (John 3:16-18 WHOSOEVER will...)

etc. etc. etc.

The preterist then applies harem scare 'em hermeneutics and comes up with an invisible return of Jesus Christ to earth 

JUST LIKE THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES do.  ← a thing they HATE being told / reminded of. 

Matthew 24:24–28 (AV)
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

This very passage is what won my half brother from Kingdom Hall theology. 

Praise God!

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I tried overlooking preterist beliefs with several people I used to stand arm in arm with street witnessing and protesting Jehovah's Witness

conventions at the Jack Murphy Stadium  (San Diego) until I discovered their {version} of Christianity is not at all about peripheral beliefs but core.

And it infests every aspect of their theology (eventually if not initially).

That's why the Worthy Christian ban on it is spot on.

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2 hours ago, OneLight said:

Greetings Larry,

People have taken verses out of context for years.  Not surprised partial preterits does the same.

Hi Onelight     Thanks for the welcome

Which on of these is out of context, If so what were they referring to literally.

. "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." (Matt. 3:2)

2. "Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?" (Matt. 3:7)

3. "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees." (Matt. 3:10)

4. "His winnowing fork is in His hand." (Matt. 3:12)

5. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 4:17)

6. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 10:7)


7. "You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, UNTIL THE SON OF MAN COMES." (Matt. 10:23)
 

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One of the many problems of preterism is that it is  inconsistency of the hermeneutics of Scripture. They do not take the Bible literally which is clearly taught. They are amillennial and they read the book of Daniel and Revelation as history. The Bible does not teach this approach. 

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On 6/27/2014 at 10:51 PM, Trinitron said:

There are 10,000 different variations of Christianity.  Most are welcomed here no problem, even some stuff that is weird by my standards.  Once the Preterist view is brought up, for one it gets erased in my experience.  Would someone care to enlighten me how this view cannot coincide with being an acceptable Christian?

A line has to be drawn somewhere, right?   It may be arbitray by your standards, but it has to be somewhere.  It is used like Robert's Rules of ORder, I thnk,  it is not about what makes an "acceptable" Christian, no.   It is about rules of order and other agendas/ criteria.

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3 hours ago, Larry H said:

Hi Onelight     Thanks for the welcome

Which on of these is out of context, If so what were they referring to literally.

. "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." (Matt. 3:2)

2. "Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?" (Matt. 3:7)

3. "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees." (Matt. 3:10)

4. "His winnowing fork is in His hand." (Matt. 3:12)

5. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 4:17)

6. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 10:7)


7. "You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, UNTIL THE SON OF MAN COMES." (Matt. 10:23)
 

In order for a verse to be taken out of context, one must state what they see the verse claiming.  Were you claiming that the 12 Apostles went through every city in Israel?  If so, I suggest you go back to verse 5 where Jesus states "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans."  The cities of the Samaritans were also in Israel, were they not?  Jesus was very clear where they were to go in verse 6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."  See what I am saying now?

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3 hours ago, OneLight said:

In order for a verse to be taken out of context, one must state what they see the verse claiming.  Were you claiming that the 12 Apostles went through every city in Israel?  If so, I suggest you go back to verse 5 where Jesus states "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans."  The cities of the Samaritans were also in Israel, were they not?  Jesus was very clear where they were to go in verse 6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."  See what I am saying now?

All yellow making are mine.

I did not state these words  Jesus and John the Baptist did. One doesn't have to be a preterist to understand the simple meaning of these imminent time statement, and what they pointed to.  

  • 1. "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." (Matt. 3:2)
  •  
  • 2. "Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?" (Matt. 3:7)

3. "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees." (Matt. 3:10)

4. "His winnowing fork is in His hand." (Matt. 3:12)

5. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 4:17)

6. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 10:7)

7. "You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, UNTIL THE SON OF MAN COMES." (Matt. 10:23)
 

 

A candid tribulationist responded to these verses

 

"All these had to do with His first coming, that is true...........but will be fulfilled again with His second coming

First it was to Israel (ensample to the church), second time to the church.  The harvest in the end of the age.....first a separation of sheep and goats and a separation of wheat and tares took place in the first century at the end of the age of the Jews....AND this will all be fulfilled a second time in the end of the age of the Gentiles.  FIRST THE NATURAL, THEN THE SPIRITUAL.  First the earnest of the Spirit, then the fullness.  The gospel to the Jew first, then the Gentile.  There is nothing new under the sun, and what has been will be again.  That seems to wrap it up quite neatly, thanks be to God.

Or by this none preterist commentator 

Matthew 10:23

[Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel ...] That is, in fleeing from persecutors from one city to another, you shall not have gone to every city in Judea until the end of the Jewish economy shall occur. See the notes at Matthew 24:28-30. By "the coming of the Son of Man," that is, of "Christ," is probably meant the destruction of Jerusalem, which happened about thirty years after this was spoken. The words are often used in this sense. See Matthew 24:30; Mark 13:26; Luke 21:27,32.  Barnes'

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And if Israel never existed again (as many predicted until 1948 upset their apple carts)... and if there hasn't been a new generation of Jews born,

then

a case could be made this was fulfilled when Jews stopped being born and Israel ceased to ever be a nation again.

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2 hours ago, JohnD said:

And if Israel never existed again (as many predicted until 1948 upset their apple carts)... and if there hasn't been a new generation of Jews born,

then

a case could be made this was fulfilled when Jews stopped being born and Israel ceased to ever be a nation again.

Perhaps, but has nothing to do IMHO what I have posted. 

So basically Jesus, John the Baptist and the Apostles had in mind that Israel was going to be a Nation once again, which was proven in 1948. And this is what Jesus and John meant, and how the Apostles understood those time indicators. Instead of first century imminent events.

How was that going to serve those first century persecuted Jewish Christians who heeded the words of Christ knowing of God's Divine Judgment on an Apostate Nation.  

Luke 21:20 "When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.

21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.

22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

Read Matthew 23-24

What generation, theirs or ours Matthew 24:34

Matthew 23:36 I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

I believe those verses mostly had to do with the contemporary generation, audience, of Jesus. The sadness was those who did not heed His words found them selves surrounded by the Romans Armies in the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70.

It reminds me of the question the disciple asked Jesus "Tell us, when shall these things be" Matt,24:3  Please read Luke 19:41-44 

I started a thread Eschatology under Prophecy     "The New frontier preterism"   As far as I am concerned it is not the last word on the subject matter.  

Your thoughts

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Preterism has produced shameful fruit of bigotry and hatred of Jews.  The fallacy that Revelation is typifying  Rome as the new Jerusalem is laughable.  While the Revelation does contain imagery, it should be interpreted as literally as possible.  The reason the pope thinks he is god on earth and reigning in the New Jerusalem is due to Augustine's dreaming up this philosophy in The City of God.  The Revelation says it reveals Jesus Christ, not Jerusalem or the pope.  Nor does it teach we should hate the Jews.  Instead Romans warns against becoming arrogant toward them.  

Jesus said we would know them by their fruit, and that goes for doctrine as well.  If a doctrine produces bad fruit, it is a bad doctrine.  A good tree cannot produce bad fruit.

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