Is Gog/Magog War=Armageddon War

[Marilyn C]

Hi Spock,
 
Thought you`d like a bit more to ponder on......

So is this Your view -



6th seal (all in fear hiding)...................................................................7th seal (Mid) ................................................................7th vial.

yet people are looking to this rising leader..........................................(Quiet -but A/C killing people 3 1/2 yrs).............................

 

...............................................................................................................Trumpets ...1.......2......3......4........5...........6...................7

 

Ch. 9 - The 6th trumpet concerns the great army released by the angels at the Euphrates in preparation for Armageddon.

 

But you see we now have ch. 10, 11, 12 & 13 which all speak of 3 1/2 years, so to me this view is not `symmetric.`

 

ch. 10 Christ announcing the final things.

ch. 11 Israel & 2 witnesses - 3 1/2 years

ch. 12 Israel hiding 3 1/2 years

ch. 13 World Government A/C leader 3 1/2 years

 

So we can see that that is symmetrical but not in the place you or Lamad think.

 

 

This is my view -



(Scroll - Overview)

1,2,3 ,4,Beginning of Trib...............................................................5 Martyrs / A/C .....................................6 Great earthqu./ Arm..7 LORD

 

Trumpets........................1...............2...............3...........4...............5 (Hell)..................................................6 Great army - Armag...7 LORD

 

........................................................................................................2 Witness (3 1/2 yrs)...................................................................

 

........................................................................................................Israel persecuted (3 1/2 yrs)...................................................Armag.

 

........................................................................................................World Gov /A/C (3 1/2 yrs)......................................................Armag.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Marilyn C

[Spock]

Marilyn,

Just curious, if you don't mind, please explain who you believe the following two people groups are:

1. the 5th seal martyrs?

2. the people in Rev 7:9-17

Where do they fit in your timeline?

Thanks.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Spock,

 

That`s fine as we are all learning each other`s point of view.

 

1. The 5th Seal martyrs. Well as you can see from my time line they come in the middle of the `week,` when the A/C starts persecuting those against him. Thus to me they would be any people who specifically stood against the A/C because -

 

`because of the word of God, & because of the testimony which they had maintained.` (Rev. 6: 9)

 

 

2. The Great multitude which no one could count. (Rev. 7: 9 - 17)

 

As you have said on a previous comment (somewhere) that there are parenthesis, (.....) I believe so, also. Thus after what I call the Scroll overview of the trib. we see the people that God is sealing & drawing to Himself - Israel; the 144,000 firstfruits (Rev. 7: 1 - 8  & 14: 4) & those who repent. Now many people repent because of all the judgments upon the earth, (great heat, famine, not much unpolluted water) & they just cry out in their pain. However there are those who repent & turn to God & then go on to testify of God & His word. (martyrs or those who get through)

 

The ones in this great multitude, we are told, turn to God because of the judgments - great heat, famine, not much unpolluted water -

 

`they shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun beat down on them, nor any heat....` (Rev. 7: 16)

 

God is specific in His details & wants to show that even amid great judgments that He has His hand of mercy outstretched. We are told why certain people are martyrs (because....) & why others turn to God, (pain & suffering).

 

Thus to me this great multitude are people from -

 

`every nation & all tribes & peoples & tongues....`  (Rev.7: 9) 

 

 

I believe if we just read what God has written & not add our.........then it all becomes clearer.

[Salty]

Hi Spock,

 

Thought you`d like a bit more to ponder on......

So is this Your view -

6th seal (all in fear hiding)...................................................................7th seal (Mid) ................................................................7th vial.

yet people are looking to this rising leader..........................................(Quiet -but A/C killing people 3 1/2 yrs).............................

 

...............................................................................................................Trumpets ...1.......2......3......4........5...........6...................7

 

Ch. 9 - The 6th trumpet concerns the great army released by the angels at the Euphrates in preparation for Armageddon.

 

But you see we now have ch. 10, 11, 12 & 13 which all speak of 3 1/2 years, so to me this view is not `symmetric.`

 

ch. 10 Christ announcing the final things.

ch. 11 Israel & 2 witnesses - 3 1/2 years

ch. 12 Israel hiding 3 1/2 years

ch. 13 World Government A/C leader 3 1/2 years

 

So we can see that that is symmetrical but not in the place you or Lamad think.

 

 

This is my view -

(Scroll - Overview)

1,2,3 ,4,Beginning of Trib...............................................................5 Martyrs / A/C .....................................6 Great earthqu./ Arm..7 LORD

 

Trumpets........................1...............2...............3...........4...............5 (Hell)..................................................6 Great army - Armag...7 LORD

 

........................................................................................................2 Witness (3 1/2 yrs)...................................................................

 

........................................................................................................Israel persecuted (3 1/2 yrs)...................................................Armag.

 

........................................................................................................World Gov /A/C (3 1/2 yrs)......................................................Armag.

 

 

The 6th Vial is about the host of battle being prepared for Armageddon that will occur on the 7th Vial. The 6th trumpet is tribulation timing, not literal war. Thus the 6th Vial is not a time of war either, but a prep period for war.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Salty,

 

So you have entered the fray.

 

The 6th trumpet (angels at the Euphrates) signals this great army, 200 million, that kill 1/3rd of mankind. (Rev. 9: 18) The 6th vial then opens up the way for this great army to come into the Middle East. (The Euphrates is dried up to prepare the way for the Kings of the East.)  This we know then leads to Armageddon, as you said.

 

Each brings a bit more detail. 

 

Now my overview is a summarised version. Yes there is time for events to happen, but that is the crux of it.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Marilyn C

[Salty]

Hi Salty,

 

So you have entered the fray.

 

The 6th trumpet (angels at the Euphrates) signals this great army, 200 million, that kill 1/3rd of mankind. (Rev. 9: 18) The 6th vial then opens up the way for this great army to come into the Middle East. (The Euphrates is dried up to prepare the way for the Kings of the East.)  This we know then leads to Armageddon, as you said.

 

Each brings a bit more detail. 

 

Now my overview is a summarised version. Yes there is time for events to happen, but that is the crux of it.

 

But you're only focusing on a portion of Rev.9 when you think that killing is meant literally.

 

That army description of Rev.9:16-19 goes with the earlier description of the locusts in Rev.9:3-11 of that same chapter.

 

Rev.9

⁴ And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

⁵ And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

⁶ And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

⁷ And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

 

Since we're shown those locusts are like horses prepared unto battle, and that latter v.16-19 section reveals their power is in their 'mouths', and with their 'tails', then how can that killing of v.18 be about a literal killing? How can these locusts be about a literal military army?

 

What this locust army actually represents are Satan's workers on earth that deceive, and that will reign with the Antichrist during the coming tribulation time of fake peace. Having the hair of women represents soothsaying to deceive, teeth like lions represents how they will attack the deceived spiritually how a lion attacks its prey, not letting go once it has hold of its prey. Their crowns like gold represent fake crowns as rulers, and in the spiritual sense as false saviours.

[Salty]

Something else about that Rev.9 chapter. It briefly mentions the idea of being 'sealed' with God's seal.

 

Rev.9

⁴ And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

⁵ And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

 

The purpose of being sealed with God's seal is so as to not be deceived by the Antichrist when he comes. Christ's first and main warning in His Olivet Discourse was to let no man deceive you. So the only ones the locusts are allowed to 'sting' are those not... sealed with God's seal, which means those represent the deceived. They aren't allowed to kill them either, nor hurt any green thing on earth.

 

Do military armies hurt green things on earth? But of course.

 

Do military armies torment people like a scorpion does with its tail while not killing them? Nope!

 

Yet Rev.9:7 shows they "were like unto horses prepared unto battle". What does "were like unto" mean? It's means they were like... horsemen prepared for battle, not that they literally are battle horsemen.

 

Rev.9

¹⁷ And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

 

How many have missed that idea of their "having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth"?

 

That word "jacinth" is about a precious stone. It's the same kind of stone in Rev.21:20 in the wall of the Holy City.

 

What kind of idea does a precious stone in a breastplate represent per OT history? It represents the breastplate of the priest.

 

Who would be in a position most able to deceive God's people? A priest.

[Montana Marv]

Salty

 

The 5th Trumpet is distinctly different from the 6th Trumpet.  Two different angels sounding two different Trumpets .  The 2nd Trumpet is different, from the 3rd, 4th or 5th.  The 6th is different from the rest of the Trumpets. Don't mix events.  To kill is to kill.  2nd Trumpet - 1/3 of the living creatures in the sea died, and  1/3 of the ships destroyed.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Last Daze]

Hi Last Daze,

 

If you look back at #189 you will see that I wrote -

 

 

`What we are seeing as the scroll is opened is the world systems (Political, economic, military & religious), (the martyrs) & everyone who will be judged. Just because these have been operating for a long time does not mean they are being judged yet.`

 

The judgment scroll shows `who will be judged.`

 

1. Conquering / Political system `lording it over.`

2. War  /Military

3. Scales / Economic `rich not giving labourer his hire.`

4. Death & Hades / Religious motivation.

5. (martyrs) blood of God`s servants.

6. The world in fear of God`s wrath.

7. The Coming of the Lord. (the completion (7) of the judgments.

 

We see in different scriptures that God will judge this Gentile world system (Luke 21: 24  1 Cor. 6: 2   Dan. 7: 26) And in Deut. 32 we see that these judgments are `sealed up` until God`s timing. The very words are similar to Rev. 10 -

 

`Indeed, I lift up my hand to heaven, & say as I live forever, If I sharpen my flashing sword & My hand takes hold on justice, I will render vengeance on My adversaries, & I will repay those who hate Me. I will make My arrows drunk with blood & My sword shall devour flesh, with the blood of the slain & the captives, from the long-haired leaders of the enemy.`

 

`Rejoice, O nations, with His people; For he will avenge the blood of His servants, & will render vengeance on His adversaries, & will atone for His land & His people.` (Deut. 32: 40 - 43)

 

Thus we can see the 2 groups - Israel (His people) & the nations (Rev. 7 Israel & the nations) who can `rejoice` when they turn to God, that He will avenge the martyrs, (blood of His servants) ....etc

 

 

Hope that it explains it more, Last Daze.

 

How do you reconcile the fifth seal as a judgment with John 5:24?

 

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

[Montana Marv]

 

Hi Last Daze,

 

If you look back at #189 you will see that I wrote -

 

 

`What we are seeing as the scroll is opened is the world systems (Political, economic, military & religious), (the martyrs) & everyone who will be judged. Just because these have been operating for a long time does not mean they are being judged yet.`

 

The judgment scroll shows `who will be judged.`

 

1. Conquering / Political system `lording it over.`

2. War  /Military

3. Scales / Economic `rich not giving labourer his hire.`

4. Death & Hades / Religious motivation.

5. (martyrs) blood of God`s servants.

6. The world in fear of God`s wrath.

7. The Coming of the Lord. (the completion (7) of the judgments.

 

We see in different scriptures that God will judge this Gentile world system (Luke 21: 24  1 Cor. 6: 2   Dan. 7: 26) And in Deut. 32 we see that these judgments are `sealed up` until God`s timing. The very words are similar to Rev. 10 -

 

`Indeed, I lift up my hand to heaven, & say as I live forever, If I sharpen my flashing sword & My hand takes hold on justice, I will render vengeance on My adversaries, & I will repay those who hate Me. I will make My arrows drunk with blood & My sword shall devour flesh, with the blood of the slain & the captives, from the long-haired leaders of the enemy.`

 

`Rejoice, O nations, with His people; For he will avenge the blood of His servants, & will render vengeance on His adversaries, & will atone for His land & His people.` (Deut. 32: 40 - 43)

 

Thus we can see the 2 groups - Israel (His people) & the nations (Rev. 7 Israel & the nations) who can `rejoice` when they turn to God, that He will avenge the martyrs, (blood of His servants) ....etc

 

 

Hope that it explains it more, Last Daze.

 

How do you reconcile the fifth seal as a judgment with John 5:24?

 

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

 

The final judgment to the Lake of Fire, is what we miss.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv