Which day is the Sabbath and is it still valid today?

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

 

Hi Shiloh,

What do the Scriptures tell us?

The Military

Matthew 12:3-4 But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?

Note: I would put Police and firemen in that bundle for they are also protecting us. My Dad was an NYC Fireman for 26 years and tried to trade off with others to be with us in Church but it was not always possible.

Those serving the Lord

Matthew 12:5 "Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?

Anyway that's my take

In Christ, Pat

I don't really see how that answers my question.  In Matthew 12 Jesus was responding to a complaint that His disciples were violating what really amounted to extra-biblical rules about the Sabbath.

 

They were not violating the biblical edict of the Sabbath.   So your comparison isn't really valid.   If the Sabbath is required, then it is required absolutely and there are no exceptions.  God doesn't have a sliding scale for disobedience. 

 

In Matt. 12:5 Jesus was talking about people who were ministering in the temple.  That cannot apply to policemen or firemen or doctors.

 

Hi Shiloh,

Jesus was using the example of David, and the youth under his military arm, why it was permissible in eating the shewbread. Normally this would have not been permissible. His apostles were gleaning the grain with their hands for substantive nourishment as they followed our Lord Jesus in His ministry work. So Jesus was comparing His apostles to an army, an army of the Lord to be exact.

In Christ, Pat

 

LOL,   Yeah you are really reaching on that one, Mac.   Jesus was addressing an extra-biblical issue that the Pharisees had imposed on the people.   My point is that the disciples were not violating the Sabbath, they were violating man-made rules imposed by the religious leaders.   So your position that it is permissible to violate the Sabbath in some cases is not supported by that text.

 

The root of the problem is that you haven't even supported the view that the Church is required by God to keep the Sabbath Day, in the first place.   Are you a Seventh Day Adventist?

 

Hi Shiloh,

Being "servile work," on the Sabbath it was prohibited on the sabbath day and was regarded as sinful but since you do not accept this you merely have to go to the Battle of Jericho where God's army marched around the city for seven days. On the seventh day the walls fell and they took the city.

In Christ, Pat

No, I am not a 7th Day Adventist

I am a Christian first

and a Baptist 2nd

 

You are still not addressing the points I am making.  For one, you still have provided NO evidence from Scripture that God requires the Church to keep the Sabbath Day.  In addition, your examples so far from the New Testament only apply to extra-biblical rules and man made regulations.

 

so far there is nothing in your responses to convince me that God still expects me to keep the Sabbath Day which was only commanded to Israel.  Still waiting for that evidence.

[Persuaded]

Hi Shiloh,What do the Scriptures tell us?The MilitaryMatthew 12:3-4 But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?Note: I would put Police and firemen in that bundle for they are also protecting us. My Dad was an NYC Fireman for 26 years and tried to trade off with others to be with us in Church but it was not always possible.Those serving the LordMatthew 12:5 "Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?Anyway that's my takeIn Christ, Pat

I don't really see how that answers my question.  In Matthew 12 Jesus was responding to a complaint that His disciples were violating what really amounted to extra-biblical rules about the Sabbath. They were not violating the biblical edict of the Sabbath.   So your comparison isn't really valid.   If the Sabbath is required, then it is required absolutely and there are no exceptions.  God doesn't have a sliding scale for disobedience.  In Matt. 12:5 Jesus was talking about people who were ministering in the temple.  That cannot apply to policemen or firemen or doctors.

Hi Shiloh,Jesus was using the example of David, and the youth under his military arm, why it was permissible in eating the shewbread. Normally this would have not been permissible. His apostles were gleaning the grain with their hands for substantive nourishment as they followed our Lord Jesus in His ministry work. So Jesus was comparing His apostles to an army, an army of the Lord to be exact.In Christ, Pat

LOL,   Yeah you are really reaching on that one, Mac.   Jesus was addressing an extra-biblical issue that the Pharisees had imposed on the people.   My point is that the disciples were not violating the Sabbath, they were violating man-made rules imposed by the religious leaders.   So your position that it is permissible to violate the Sabbath in some cases is not supported by that text. The root of the problem is that you haven't even supported the view that the Church is required by God to keep the Sabbath Day, in the first place.   Are you a Seventh Day Adventist?

Hi Shiloh,Being "servile work," on the Sabbath it was prohibited on the sabbath day and was regarded as sinful but since you do not accept this you merely have to go to the Battle of Jericho where God's army marched around the city for seven days. On the seventh day the walls fell and they took the city.In Christ, PatNo, I am not a 7th Day AdventistI am a Christian firstand a Baptist 2nd

David (and Jesus) were anointed kings when they took of the shewbread (or broke the sabbath). I don't think their actions apply to us. If we are free of the sabbath law, it's for other reasons.

Jericho is a terrible example in this argument. The Levites were prohibited from going to war, but lead the procession. The ark was also prohibited, but lead the procession. Clearly God (or the Captain of the host of the Lord) was deliberately breaking every law to make sure the people knew He was doing the work, "as when He fought in the day of battle".

[Persuaded]

The Law, is not the same as the Ten Commandments. The Law is clearly superseded by the New Covenant, but I see nowhere that the Commandments are annulled.

I think most Christians are a little too cavalier in this (me included), using jingoisms like "every day is my sabbath" to justify breaking the commandment. Paul tells us it's silly to argue about which day of the week, but we should set aside one.

[other one]

Jesus admitted to working on the sabbath, so if it's still a rule,  or a sin. then we are all in a lot of trouble.

[Qnts2]

Jesus admitted to working on the sabbath, so if it's still a rule,  or a sin. then we are all in a lot of trouble.

 

Jesus was born a Jew, under the Mosaic law. If Jesus worked on the Sabbath, which is against the Mosaic law, then Jesus is a sinner, and we are all in a lot of trouble.  

[Guest shiloh357]

The Law, is not the same as the Ten Commandments. The Law is clearly superseded by the New Covenant, but I see nowhere that the Commandments are annulled.

I think most Christians are a little too cavalier in this (me included), using jingoisms like "every day is my sabbath" to justify breaking the commandment. Paul tells us it's silly to argue about which day of the week, but we should set aside one.

It's not a question of commandments being annulled.  The Sabbath Day is a picture of Jesus.   Jesus is THE Sabbath for the believer.   I rest in Him.  There is nothing that the Sabbath day can do for me that Jesus hasn't already provided.  Nowhere is the church commanded to rest on a particular day.

 

The Sabbath was given as a sign between God and Israel.  The Bible doesn't apply that to the Church.

[Persuaded]

I agree that He is our rest; I'm with you on the Heb 4 application. Maybe it's overly doctrinally conservative, but it seems that effort (belief also means obedience) is required to enter the rest. I'll also clarify that rest is not salvation. In the out-of-Egypt backdrop that the Hebrews author is using, "salvation" was their escape from Egypt; entering Canaan was their promised rest which they failed to earn through disobedience. There's a lot of room -40 years of wandering in their case- between salvation and rest.

 

[Heb 4:11 NKJV] Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

 

Throughout Hebrews 3 and 4, the writer harps on the importance of obeying, as a signal of belief. I'm not into a works trip, and as I said I've practiced random-sabbath (at best) observance myself, but as I try to understand His requirements I can't set this one aside. I believe firmly in salvation through His grace, but it bothers me that I might cheapen that grace by indulging in what I can't obediently justify.

[tff]

 

 

 

 

 

There are many arguments about which day is the Sabbath day and whether it is still valid or not today. Any opinions? I use the Bible KJV and only texts from the Bible must be provided please to prove your point.

The Sabbath day is from friday evening to saturday evening.   But Jesus is the true Sabbath.   When I got saved, I entered into His rest.  I don't need the sabbath day when I have Jesus.

So you also agree that the Sabbath is from Friday evening to Saturday evening. I do not understand how you can say Jesus is the true Sabbath. The Sabbath is God's rest. How can Jesus be God's rest? Jesus is God's son. If we need to rest on the Sabbath like God, then we should rest on the Saturday, right?

Jesus is also God. He also was our Creator, with the Father and the Holy Spirit. They are one God.

Jesus rested from His work when He said "it is finished and died on the cross. He had obeyed our Father perfectly and He had kept all the commandments perfectly on our behalf.. He had paid for our sin on the cross and had put His righteousness on our account sheet. He had purchased us back from Satan with His blood. He also ratified the new covenant with His blood. The new covenant is all about what Jesus did for us, and not about anything we can do. By grace you have saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is a GIFT of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 When we believe in Christ we trust Him and rely on Him.

When we turn from our sinful life to God for forgiveness, He gives us His own Spirit and His own life to live in us. We are born again.

He gives us new desires to want to live a life that brings Him praise. We are adopted into His family. No one has to keep the commandments to be saved. We want to keep them because we are already saved. God demonstrated His love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

Most Christians celebrate resurrection Sunday, First Fruits in the Jewish calandar and Easter Sunday in ours, and make Sunday our day of worship and rest for that reason. But there is nothing wrong in keeping Saturday. Paul spoke frequently of speaking to the Jews on Saturday mornings and speaking to the gentiles saturday afternoon and evening after sunset till midnight. Saturday evening was considered the first day to the Jews. He spoke of taking up an offering for the poor on the first day of the week when they were gathered together.

I hope this helps to clear up your confusion.

Willa

 

WilIa, Thanks for your reply. I have read many of the articles that were posted on this site as was suggested by some members and there are many different views, some that makes sense and others very confusing. 

I believe the following. Jesus was God. He has given up His Godly status when He became man. He died as man and was resurrected as man and is now sitting on the right hand side of God as man, as the High Priest.There are now two separate entities. The Holy Spirit on this earth did not exist until Jesus was resurrected. God's powers worked through Jesus Christ when He was on earth, and He received it when He was baptized. Only the people that accept Jesus Christ in their lives, the born again, receives this same power from Jesus Christ to work on earth ie. the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ is the only way to God. Man cannot go direct to God by cutting Jesus out of the picture. I further believe that when you have accepted Jesus Christ in your life, He has written the law of God on your heart which means that you will want to live out the law that God has given to us as the law of God is the clear indication of what pure love is. Pure love to love God and to your neighbour. By not using His Name in vain, and not carving out statues and pray to them, and holding the Sabbath, your show your pure love to God, by not stealing, murdering, coveting etc, you show your pure love towards your neighbour. God was very specific with His Commandments, and He does not make mistakes, to show what this pure love is. If He thought that we could use any day to rest He would not have mentioned it in the Commandments, but He spesifically mentioned Sabbath, and that is linked to the first seventh day of creation, which incidentally was holied and blessed by God Himself, and this seven day cycle has never changed from creation up to now. The Saturday is the Sabbath and it is still valid and in line with God's Commandments and still needs to be respected, if we love God. Paul has also said that the Commandments be held until Jesus comes again and John said that nothing of the Commandments may be changed.There are many quotes in the Bible that if we love God, we will keep the Commandments, all of them, and not nine out of ten.

Satan is the master deceiver. He does not want people to be saved, to be children of God. That is why he is using his agents to spread the lies or theories, to create doubt in mankind's mind. His first victim was Eve and he tried his deception with Jesus Christ but failed, and that all by twisting the Word of God. We need to be very aware of what is being said and to compare it to God's Word and to see whether it is twisted or not. Satan is doing this as he knows that he has no chance in heaven anymore, and that he is going to be destroyed by fire and brimstone. He is doing everything in his power to destroy mankind as they still have a chance to enter the gates of heaven. The only way for mankind to survive these attacks from Satan, is to love and obey God, and God has given us the guidelines, the Ten Commandments. 

 

 

 

So what about policemen, firefighters, doctors, nurses, people in the military who are believers?   Many of them HAVE to work on the Sabbath.    They often cannot keep the Sabbath.   If the Sabbath is required, what about them?

 

So not keeping the Sabbath means you don't love God?

 

Tell me, what is the eternal destiny of believers who do not keep the Sabbath day?

 

1. I believe that God will know exactly how to judge them. These people might be divided into two groups namely believers and non-believers. The non-believers will not be a problem and God will know what to do.  With regards to the believers, I believe it is like the calf falling in the pit and has to be rescued, and that factor will be accepted by God. Just remember, God knows your heart and He will know whether you enjoy working on a Sabbath to help others or not.

2. If you ignore God's commandments blatantly, which is not covered in above explanation of working on a Sabbath, I think you show disrespect to God which can be seen as non-love to God.

3. Again we can divide the people in two groups namely the group that did not know about the Sabbath (Saturday) at all, and the group who does know about it. All people will be judged on what they know, and that is explained in the Bible. That applies from the man in the rural area who has never been in a church up to the one in the civilized world where churches are well attended/not attended.

[Guest shiloh357]

I agree that He is our rest; I'm with you on the Heb 4 application. Maybe it's overly doctrinally conservative, but it seems that effort (belief also means obedience) is required to enter the rest. I'll also clarify that rest is not salvation. In the out-of-Egypt backdrop that the Hebrews author is using, "salvation" was their escape from Egypt; entering Canaan was their promised rest which they failed to earn through disobedience. There's a lot of room -40 years of wandering in their case- between salvation and rest.

 

[Heb 4:11 NKJV] Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

 

Throughout Hebrews 3 and 4, the writer harps on the importance of obeying, as a signal of belief. I'm not into a works trip, and as I said I've practiced random-sabbath (at best) observance myself, but as I try to understand His requirements I can't set this one aside. I believe firmly in salvation through His grace, but it bothers me that I might cheapen that grace by indulging in what I can't obediently justify.

The context of the discussion in Heb. 4 begins with Hebrews 3:11.   It is talking about the disobedience of the nation of Israel and their rebellion against God in the wilderness.  God is using Sabbath rest imagery, but He is not affirming Sabbath day observance.  The writer of Hebrews is using that imagery as didactic point to warn Jewish believers against rebelling against God and failing to enter God's rest found only Jesus.  (Heb. 4:3, 10)

[Persuaded]

Yes, I think your post agrees with what I said about the message of Hebrews. I understand it gets complicated when we are discussing sabbath observance while using the metaphor of the sabbath. I do have them straight in my head ;-)