The "beast" of Rev 13 through hermeneutics and the traditional

[Marilyn C]

Hi PeteWaldo,

 

I`m looking forward to discussing this topic with you. First up I do believe that the coming Islamic Empire will be the controlling force of the beast.

 

It`s good to see that you do not wish to `engage in unsupportable speculation & presumption.` Thus said you are using the words `perhaps` & `widely believed.` You yourself have said that 1/4 of mankind in the world today is Muslim, & it is said that they are the fastest growing religion. That would come under `widely believed.`  So let`s keep to God`s word, ay.

 

I do have many questions for you but will give them to you one at a time, as they may need some discussion.

 

Q. 1. Who is treading down whom?

 

`....& with him...."Daniel`s beasts were assigned the masculine gender:" ...& his nails (of) brass....& stamped the residue with his feet."  (post #2)

 

 

Marilyn.

[PeteWaldo]

Hi PeteWaldo,

 

I`m looking forward to discussing this topic with you. First up I do believe that the coming Islamic Empire will be the controlling force of the beast.

 

It`s good to see that you do not wish to `engage in unsupportable speculation & presumption.` Thus said you are using the words `perhaps` & `widely believed.` You yourself have said that 1/4 of mankind in the world today is Muslim, & it is said that they are the fastest growing religion. That would come under `widely believed.`  So let`s keep to God`s word, ay.

 

I do have many questions for you but will give them to you one at a time, as they may need some discussion.

 

Q. 1. Who is treading down whom?

 

`....& with him...."Daniel`s beasts were assigned the masculine gender:" ...& his nails (of) brass....& stamped the residue with his feet."  (post #2)

 

 

Marilyn.

 

Rather than suffer another thank you like the poster before you, I'll simply say that the only reason that I included that part-verse was to show that Daniel assigned the masculine gender to kingdom beasts. To save someone embarrassment when someone will inevitably say "But the verse says 'his' so it must be a man!"

 

Sorry Marilyn, but I've been at this for perhaps 12 hours, and need a break. Leave a few questions and I will try to address them, in broader terms, in the morning. But if your interest is in pulling the revived roman empire out of John Darby's hat, and trying to stick it into this entirely different - and traditional - approach to Bible prophecy than you are likely very familiar with, it won't be worth the bother for either one of us as I explained in a prior post.

 

Edited November 5, 2014 by PeteWaldo

[Marilyn C]

Hi Pete,

 

So agree that it is NOT the revived Roman Empire. Thus we have some other things to discuss.

 

Q 2. What makes you believe that the beasts of Dan. 7 are the same kingdoms as in the Great Image?

 

Marilyn.

[other one]

 

Regarding your question I popped open Halley's Bible Handbook for Psalms 83 and read: "A Prayer for Protection - From a Conspiracy of Federated Nations: Edomites, Arabians, Moabites, Ammonites, Amalekites, Philistines and others.

 

Ezekiel 36 and 37 is a wonderful prophecy regarding the restoration of Jews to their land, some parts of which may be yet to be fulfilled.

 

 

 

this is what's wrong with these threads.....   someone can ask a very simple question and get a very long response that really doesn't answer the question.

 

People are so interesting in just posting their own ideas that there is no real conversation.......   just a conglomerate of ideas that really can never mesh together.

 

I did answer, but the answers will not be clear because you are trying to understand a single element but within an entirely different approach to Bible prophecy than you are likely at all familiar with, and through the filter of an eschatology you presently hold.

I spent a lot of time forming that response, rather than simply pointing out that your questions were off topic.

 

and one. in these threads. never seem to get a simple answer to a single element.......   I really don't want a lecture (which is not really legal here) I just wanted an answer to a single simple question.......    all it takes is one of two words for each of the scriptures....    "Before or After"

[Enoch2021]

Hi Pete,

 

So agree that it is NOT the revived Roman Empire. Thus we have some other things to discuss.

 

Q 2. What makes you believe that the beasts of Dan. 7 are the same kingdoms as in the Great Image?

 

Marilyn.

 

 

And you would be wrong.

 

This is Right as Rain....

 

 

 

 

But we've already been down this road before, love.  And I'm not paying for the same Real Estate twice.

[Marilyn C]

That`s fine Enoch2021,

 

You can sit on the side & watch Pete & me (& any others.)

 

Marilyn.

[Enoch2021]

That`s fine Enoch2021,

 

You can sit on the side & watch Pete & me (& any others.)

 

Marilyn.

 

 

==================================================================================

 

As you were.

 

I completed this after our Rendezvous some time ago. (When you get a chance): 

 

 

But this one settle's it, Ya Ready?? ....

 

 

(Daniel 9:26-27) "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 

 

{27} And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

 

 

In Verse 26 it's talking about the Destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD...who destroyed it: Titus Vespasian leading the 5th, 10th, 12th and 15th Roman Legions.  <----The People of the Prince.

 

And the "Ya Ready"  ....Look @ Verse 27 "And he"!!  Who's "he"? .... The Antecedent from Verse 26: The Prince (most likely a "Type") from Verse 26.  Who's the Prince's People..... THE ROMANS.  He/they're coming again.

 

 

Special Note: Did you know that Titus Vespasian and Antiochus Epiphanes----- (The first Abomination of Desolation) were Blood, cousins if I'm not mistaken?

 

 

Good Luck refuting this     Combined with my link...we're in Slam Dunk Territory, again.

[Marilyn C]

Hold that ball, Enoch, I may do a check mate on you yet!

[Enoch2021]

Hold that ball, Enoch, I may do a check mate on you yet!

 

 

You gotta respect that     I commend your passion and drive....but I believe that's a bridge too far.

 

 

Bring It!!  

 

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Enoch2021,

 

I do love toing & froing with you. You are a good `competitor,` or someone who does have a pretty good handle on God`s word, so we don`t usually get speculations & opinions. OK so now I have read your link & I`m `armed & ready.`

 

1. Firstly I do agree that the A/C is an Assyrian. (not of the R.R. Empire but of the Islamic Confederacy that controls the Global Government.)

 

2. The Prince. You said `mostly likely a type.` Oooooo moving in to speculation there Enoch!

 

3. Satan`s Seven Super Kingdoms. Now you missed out, `the Ottoman Empire, The Mongolian Empire, The British Empire, the USA, The Soviet Union, the European Union, etc, etc all super kingdoms. Now God never gave us your list, He told us about the 5 World Rulers Babylon, M/Persians, Greece, Rome & Divided Kingdom.

 

4. The 7 kings of Rev. 17: 10. They are Kings, successive leaders, but NOT kingdoms. The time period for these are told to us by the Holy Spirit. He placed them right before the great tribulation, for the 10 kings had not received their kingdom, but would get authority with the beast for one hour - short time - 42 months, 3 1/2 years. (Rev. 13: 5) Thus 5 kings / leaders of the Global Government had come & gone, one `is,` was ruling prior to the great trib. & then we know the next one (7th) is controlled by Satan, (the 8th).

 

 

5. Can you describe the R.R. Empire that you see will arise? Will Rome be the capital & centre with the same area of the Old Roman Empire? Will they call themselves the R.R.Empire? Do you see any indications of this happening?

 

 

All the best, Marilyn.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Marilyn C