Subtraction of some verses from the Bible, why and who is to be blamed

[Ezra]

The bible was given to Moses letter by letter? Really??? That statement is so wrong I just don't know where to start. Unless of course your claiming the bible only contains five books

Surely you could have accepted that he meant the Torah, not the entire Bible.  No need to jump on someone for a slight error.  And yes indeed, Moses was given the Torah letter by letter.  I'll leave you to find the Scriptures to support that, but they are there.  That is why the Lord Jesus spoke about jots and tittles, the smallest Hebrew markings.

 

Frankly, I am not interested in convincing you (or anyone else) about the Bible version issue, since you've already made up your mind that the commandment to desist from adding to, or subtracting from, the words of Scripture is meaningless as stated in Revelation. 

 

Here's a good example of your depth of knowledge about Scripture: "We know that several of the gospels relied on the other gospels to fill in the blanks."  We know nothing of the sort.  That is what rationalistic theologically liberal "scholars" would have us believe.  They would also have us believe that the most corrupt manuscripts are "the best".  You are welcome to their opinions.

 

What we do know is that the entire Bible -- "ALL SCRIPTURE" -- is given by Divine inspiration (2 Tim 3:16) -- theopneustos or God-breathed --  so no writer relied on anyone else for his Gospel.  No writer relied on his own research, ideas, conjectures, or imaginations either (2 Pet 1:19-21).  What we do know is that "every word of God is pure" (Prov 30:5), which tells us that it is not the word of man, and therefore man shall live by every word which proceeds out of the mouth of God.

[Guest shiloh357]

Luke tells us that His Gospel is at least, in part, the result of interviews he conducted.   There are places where the biblical writers reference uninspired sources, like the book of Jasher and the book of Enoch.  Paul even used pagan writers to make didactic points.

 

Jesus even quoted from the Talmud/Mishnah.  "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath" is mishnaic statement that Jesus used.  He paraphrased other Talmudic references as well.

 

Inspiration is not some kind of divine dictation.   And it doesn't apply to translations, only to the original manuscripts.

[saved34]

Verses are not being "taken out" of the new versions, they're just reflections of the different manuscripts being used. The KJV is a fine translation, but it is not the only translation, and God has not appointed it the only English translation we should use. There is not one single, solitary doctrine in the KJV that is not in the NIV. Every essential doctrine to orthodox Christianity is present and accounted for,(Virgin Birth, Blood Atonement, Salvation by Grace, Deity of Christ, etc..) and in some places much more clearer than in the KJV. 

 

 

 

 

[another_poster]

Surely you could have accepted that he meant the Torah, not the entire Bible.  No need to jump on someone for a slight error.  And yes indeed, Moses was given the Torah letter by letter.  I'll leave you to find the Scriptures to support that, but they are there.  That is why the Lord Jesus spoke about jots and tittles, the smallest Hebrew markings.

 

 

 

That is way to basic a mistake. If the torah and bible were similar or the terms used interchangeably yes. However that is not the case. 

Also worth noting is that God worked differently in OT times to NT times. So just because he dictated word for word to Moses does not mean he did so for the NT and also does not automatically mean that for the rest of the OT. One wonders why they had such great discussion over what to include in the bible if it is a clear as you suggest.

 

 

 

 

Frankly, I am not interested in convincing you (or anyone else) about the Bible version issue, since you've already made up your mind that the commandment to desist from adding to, or subtracting from, the words of Scripture is meaningless as stated in Revelation. 

 

You need to spend more time reading instead of responding. I never said any such thing. If you are going to make claims about what I said make sure you are accurate. Yes that passage applies to the writing of revelation. I have come to the position I have from study. I am always open to hearing other views. You don't do anything to indicate that you are open to the possibility that you might be wrong. You can not make a statement and expect people to accept it as the truth without backing it up. 

 

 

 

Here's a good example of your depth of knowledge about Scripture: "We know that several of the gospels relied on the other gospels to fill in the blanks."  We know nothing of the sort.  That is what rationalistic theologically liberal "scholars" would have us believe.  They would also have us believe that the most corrupt manuscripts are "the best".  You are welcome to their opinions.

 

What we do know is that the entire Bible -- "ALL SCRIPTURE" -- is given by Divine inspiration (2 Tim 3:16) -- theopneustos or God-breathed --  so no writer relied on anyone else for his Gospel.  No writer relied on his own research, ideas, conjectures, or imaginations either (2 Pet 1:19-21).  What we do know is that "every word of God is pure" (Prov 30:5), which tells us that it is not the word of man, and therefore man shall live by every word which proceeds out of the mouth of God.

 

Ok so you claim to have researched it well so explain why I am wrong mentioning the specific passages I am talking about. If you don't know which passages I am talking about then clearly you have not researched as well as you claim. In saying what you have said here you have also claimed what the bible says is wrong! I'm guessing you don't realise that. The words in the bible make it very clear that some parts are peoples personal opinion. There is no evidence that God dictated word for word to the translators. Indeed logically that argument simply can not be supported. You also have not answered as to if the people who asked Paul questions were divinely inspired to ask those questions. After all by asking those questions they then determined what Paul would write about. 

 

You can repeat Proverbs 30:5 till your blue in the face. It changes nothing. The question is what is the word of God and what isn't. Divine inspiration also does not mean dictated word for word. Being told word for word what to write is not inspiration for a start.

[Guest Thallasa]

Jesus knew that there would be arguments and disagreements not only amongst those of a later date but among

 

the apostles themselves.Humanity is incapable of agreeing entirely on anything they see or hear ,so He sends the

 

Holy Spirit to those who truly seek Him and love Him and in their minds and hearts He prints the most important truths .

 

Those who do ot have the Spirit could argue over the same text until  doomsday and not agree .

Edited February 28, 2015 by Thallasa

[OakWood]

 

You actually start with a common mistake. That passage only refers to revelation. It does not refer to the entire bible. We need to remember how the bible came about. It was not complete when revelation was written.

Here we go.  Instead of upholding the fundamental Divine principle that Scripture cannot and must no be altered, we have this comment above.  And Revelation COMPLETES  Scripture, so your comment is incorrect to begin with. That was the whole point of the warning in Revelation.  There will be no more Divine revelations from God.  Scripture is complete. Do not tamper with the Word of God. You will pay for mutilating Scripture.  So that is not "a common mistake" but a proper application of Scripture.

 

However what is stated in Rev 22:18,19 is a general principle applicable to the whole Word of God.  This principle was stated in the Torah a long time ago, and reiterated throughout Scripture (Deut 4:2; 12:32; Prov 30:6).  Since "EVERY WORD of God is pure..." (Prov 30:5) and "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" (Mt 4:4) it should be evident that every Hebrew and Greek word is critical -- indeed every jot and tittle (Mt 5:18) -- which refers to the smallest Hebrew markings in the OT.

 

 

Although I agree with you that scripture should not be tampered with the passage in Revelation DOES ONLY APPLY to Revelation:

 

 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Revelation 22:19

 

The Bible was not a book at the time of writing. The above passage refers specifically to John's revelation and not to anything else.

[OneLight]

To answer the OP, it depends on which text the translator uses.  Here is a good start to understand what I am referring to. 
 
Bible Translations

 

History Of Bible Translations

 

These are just two of many references you can find if you really want a deeper understanding of why we have different translations.  If you want to have a deeper understanding of what we have as scripture, study the copies of the original texts in the languages they were written in.  Otherwise, you are only reading a translation done by others, no matter which version you use.

 

As a side not, let's not turn this into another battle of which version is right and which is wrong.  We have enough of those threads in the archives.

[enoob57]

Good day to you all. Revelation 22:18-19 talk about curses for those that add or subtract from the word of God.

Nonetheless, Act 8vs37, 15vs34, 24vs7, 28vs29; Mattew 17 vs 21

Mattew 18 vs 11

Mattew 23 vs. 14

Mark 9vs44;

Mark 9vs46, 11vs26, 15vs28; Luke 17vs36

John 5vs4; Romans 16vs24 are missing in NIV and Good News.

1. Why these subtractions in NIV and Good News?

2. Who are the culprits

3. How do we rectify it?

4. What should we do as christians.

You actually start with a common mistake. That passage only refers to revelation. It does not refer to the entire bible. We need to remember how the bible came about. It was not complete when revelation was written.

This is a mistake in reasoning with God's Word as the Revelation in context

takes us into the eternal state and in that contextual flow lies the great

seal of God's Word and intent for eternity... there is nothing that can be

added past the Revelation and that is where the seal is placed! Love, Steven

[opportunitykenny]

Of a truth, I am very joyous for the manner in which people are really responding to the present issue. It gives us an avenue to really see clearly what is in people, the type of christian they are, those areas in which they are wrong and where they need to make adjustments.

Some marks of a true believer are these: they do not insultively argue, though they may repeatedly say the truth; they correct and chastise in love as a loving father will not beat his son and kill him in the name of correcting him; a true child of God also trust and pray to God for the acceptance of truth, not imposing it though it is true.

Even, the question is this: how many christians will willingly accept it if he or she discovers that what he or she knows is false after 40years? Friends, I tell you the truth, many because of pride and other adamic attitudes will not sincerely accept their being wrong. They will rather argue it out.

My prayer is that God will help us to make His Spirit guides us in everything we do in words and actions in Jesus name.

[OneLight]

Of a truth, I am very joyous for the manner in which people are really responding to the present issue. It gives us an avenue to really see clearly what is in people, the type of christian they are, those areas in which they are wrong and where they need to make adjustments.

Some marks of a true believer are these: they do not insultively argue, though they may repeatedly say the truth; they correct and chastise in love as a loving father will not beat his son and kill him in the name of correcting him; a true child of God also trust and pray to God for the acceptance of truth, not imposing it though it is true.

Even, the question is this: how many christians will willingly accept it if he or she discovers that what he or she knows is false after 40years? Friends, I tell you the truth, many because of pride and other adamic attitudes will not sincerely accept their being wrong. They will rather argue it out.

My prayer is that God will help us to make His Spirit guides us in everything we do in words and actions in Jesus name.

 

Your post makes me wonder what the reason behind the thread truly is.  In your OP, you asked a question.  In your first reply, you stated you are grateful for the replies, leading me to believe you are learning the answers to your question, but the above post leads me to wonder if this is some sort of experiment to see how others respond and that the questions were only food to attract a population for observation.

 

Please clarify to provide a better understanding of your OP, since you have not taken part in the discussion except to make statement of observation.