Revelation 10 - the Q'uran?

[Ezra]

Actually Gabriel is generally the messenger angel. Michael is the warrior archangel in charge of the heavenly host. He is the angel protecting Israel.

The Angel of the Lord is conceivably Gabriel.

We need to distinguish between "an angel of the LORD" and "the Angel of the LORD" (but sometimes Scripture also states "an Angel of the LORD" or "the Angel of God" or "an Angel of God", and the context establishes who this is).  Gabriel is "an angel of the LORD" whereas the pre-incarnate Christ as a theophany or a Christophany is "the Angel of the LORD".  This Angel appeared to men as God, and was worshipped as God. Proof? Judges 14:17-23.

 

¹⁷And Manoah said unto the angel of the LORD, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour?

¹⁸ And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?

¹⁹ So Manoah took a kid with a meat offering, and offered it upon a rock unto the LORD: and the angel did wondrously; and Manoah and his wife looked on.

²⁰ For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and fell on their faces to the ground.

²¹ But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the LORD.

²² And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.

²³ But his wife said unto him, If the LORD were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these.

 

The Man who wrestled with Jacob also would not reveal His name, and after He had left Jacob recognized that he had met the LORD and said "I HAVE SEEN GOD FACE TO FACE and my life was preserved" (Gen 32:24-30).

²⁴ And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

²⁵ And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

²⁶ And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

²⁷And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.

²⁸ And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

²⁹ And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

³⁰ And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

 

The problem we are having in this thread is that some are mistakenly insisting that the angel in Revelation 10 is Christ, simply because He appeared as the Angel of the LORD in the OT.  That is totally false.  Christ does not appear as the Angel of the LORD after His incarnation, but as Emmanuel, or God manifest in the flesh, or the I AM, or the Lord God Almighty. 

 

Also to assert that Michael the Archangel and Christ (who is God the Word) are one and the same is absolutely false doctrine, held by the cults, but not by Christians.

[missmuffet]

 

Actually Gabriel is generally the messenger angel. Michael is the warrior archangel in charge of the heavenly host. He is the angel protecting Israel.

The Angel of the Lord is conceivably Gabriel.

We need to distinguish between "an angel of the LORD" and "the Angel of the LORD" (but sometimes Scripture also states "an Angel of the LORD" or "the Angel of God" or "an Angel of God", and the context establishes who this is).  Gabriel is "an angel of the LORD" whereas the pre-incarnate Christ as a theophany or a Christophany is "the Angel of the LORD".  This Angel appeared to men as God, and was worshipped as God. Proof? Judges 14:17-23.

 

¹⁷And Manoah said unto the angel of the LORD, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour?

¹⁸ And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?

¹⁹ So Manoah took a kid with a meat offering, and offered it upon a rock unto the LORD: and the angel did wondrously; and Manoah and his wife looked on.

²⁰ For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and fell on their faces to the ground.

²¹ But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the LORD.

²² And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.

²³ But his wife said unto him, If the LORD were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these.

 

The Man who wrestled with Jacob also would not reveal His name, and after He had left Jacob recognized that he had met the LORD and said "I HAVE SEEN GOD FACE TO FACE and my life was preserved" (Gen 32:24-30).

²⁴ And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

²⁵ And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

²⁶ And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

²⁷And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.

²⁸ And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

²⁹ And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

³⁰ And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

 

The problem we are having in this thread is that some are mistakenly insisting that the angel in Revelation 10 is Christ, simply because He appeared as the Angel of the LORD in the OT.  That is totally false.  Christ does not appear as the Angel of the LORD after His incarnation, but as Emmanuel, or God manifest in the flesh, or the I AM, or the Lord God Almighty. 

 

Also to assert that Michael the Archangel and Christ (who is God the Word) are one and the same is absolutely false doctrine, held by the cults, but not by Christians.

 

It still does not matter.And angel is an angel and Christ is Christ.You can not confuse the two.

[Kan]

This angel in Revelation 10, swears by God, just like God did to Abraham.

 

Hebrews 6:13 "For when God made promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no greater, He sware by Himself."

 

Hebrews chapter 3 and 4, also tell what God has sworn about, and it has to do with an issue which is dealt with in Revelation 10 and 14, which I don't want to elaborate on here.

 

The language and picture of an angel swearing by "Him that liveth forever" is the same in both Rev 10 and Daniel 12.

 

To swear by God, no one is allowed to do that except God. Not even an angel, unless that angel is Michael the archangel which is Christ.

Jesus makes it very clear in Matthew chapters 5 and 23, that we are not to swear by anything in heaven, let alone God.

A good angel will never swear by God's name or any other thing.

 

Revelation 22:8 and 9, - the angels consider themselves as fellow servants of God. They do not swear by heaven or God as Jesus said we should not.

 

So the angel in Revelation 10 can be none other than Christ, seeing that the entire book is of Him - "the revelation of Jesus Christ."

 

But let's say that we don't associate this angel with Christ, nevertheless it is a message with the authority of heaven, and this message reveals and confirms who this angel is.

[Littlelambseativy]

Did Abraham, for lack of better description, call Jesus the Angel of the Lord? He goes on to say that he had fought with God..seen Him face to face?

Today with our knowledge we still struggle with who Melchizedek was.....without beginning, without end, without mother, without father. To us the only one that has that background is Christ, to some he was the king of Salem..Jerusalem, a man. How else could Abraham have described Jesus but as an Angel of the Lord...yes I do seem to contradict myself..but in this one instance alone ...Abraham fought with God.

[MorningGlory]

 

Revelation 22:8 and 9, - the angels consider themselves as fellow servants of God. They do not swear by heaven or God as Jesus said we should not

 

No, angels are not FELLOW servants of God.  That would imply God is also a servant, which He is not.  Angels are THE servants of God.

 

 

 

So the angel in Revelation 10 can be none other than Christ, seeing that the entire book is of Him - "the revelation of Jesus Christ."

 

An angel is a created being, Jesus is not.   This is totally wrong.

[Marilyn C]

 

 

Revelation 22:8 and 9, - the angels consider themselves as fellow servants of God. They do not swear by heaven or God as Jesus said we should not

No, angels are not FELLOW servants of God.  That would imply God is also a servant, which He is not.  Angels are THE servants of God.

 

 

So the angel in Revelation 10 can be none other than Christ, seeing that the entire book is of Him - "the revelation of Jesus Christ."

An angel is a created being, Jesus is not.   This is totally wrong.

 

 

Hi MorningGlory,

 

Yes an angel is a created being. A lion, a lamb, an owl, a hen, etc are all God`s creations. Plus gem stones, furniture, stars, sun, rocks, flowers etc, all created by God. All these & more are used to represent some aspect of our glorious Lord. Otherwise how could we in our earthly minds understand such a heavenly being who actually is God.

 

Marilyn. 

[Ezra]

The fact that John by Divine revelation calls the angel of Revelation 10 "ANOTHER mighty angel" (v 1) should be sufficient to confirm that this is merely an angel, and just as there were angels associated with the trumpet judgments in the previous chapter ANOTHER ANGEL (distinct from the preceding angels) has come on the scene for a different purpose.  There is no way that the Holy Spirit would call the Lord Jesus Christ "another angel"!

 

Furthermore, another solid reason why the angel who stands simultaneously upon the earth and upon the sea (and lifts up his hand to Heaven) is NOT CHRIST is that a voice from Heaven is distinct from this angel, and commands John to take the little book out of the hand of this angel (v 8).  That same voice had earlier commanded John to seal up the things which the seven thunders had uttered (v 4). That voice can be none other than the voice of God, or the voice of Christ, speaking while that angel stands on earth.

 

Yes an angel is a created being. A lion, a lamb, an owl, a hen, etc are all God`s creations. Plus gem stones, furniture, stars, sun, rocks, flowers etc, all created by God. All these & more are used to represent some aspect of our glorious Lord. Otherwise how could we in our earthly minds understand such a heavenly being who actually is God.

This comment has no relevance whatsoever, and does not clarify who that angel is.  If anything, it obfuscates the issue.

[Littlelambseativy]

When John begins to bow before the angel what does the angel say to him?

[Marilyn C]

The fact that John by Divine revelation calls the angel of Revelation 10 "ANOTHER mighty angel" (v 1) should be sufficient to confirm that this is merely an angel, and just as there were angels associated with the trumpet judgments in the previous chapter ANOTHER ANGEL (distinct from the preceding angels) has come on the scene for a different purpose.  There is no way that the Holy Spirit would call the Lord Jesus Christ "another angel"!

 

Furthermore, another solid reason why the angel who stands simultaneously upon the earth and upon the sea (and lifts up his hand to Heaven) is NOT CHRIST is that a voice from Heaven is distinct from this angel, and commands John to take the little book out of the hand of this angel (v 8).  That same voice had earlier commanded John to seal up the things which the seven thunders had uttered (v 4). That voice can be none other than the voice of God, or the voice of Christ, speaking while that angel stands on earth.

 

Yes an angel is a created being. A lion, a lamb, an owl, a hen, etc are all God`s creations. Plus gem stones, furniture, stars, sun, rocks, flowers etc, all created by God. All these & more are used to represent some aspect of our glorious Lord. Otherwise how could we in our earthly minds understand such a heavenly being who actually is God.

This comment has no relevance whatsoever, and does not clarify who that angel is.  If anything, it obfuscates the issue.

 

Hi Ezra,

 

In the book of Revelation there are 330 references to the figures, shadows, types, symbols, patterns, persons & buildings of the Old Testament. This unveiling is the culmination of all the truths expressed from Genesis to Revelation, for all scripture is centred on one purpose & that is to reveal Christ to us in all His glory.

 

The third vision of our Lord in Rev. 8 - 13 reveals the exalted Son of Man as the stately Mediator.

 

- no angel has a rainbow over its head, as Christ does.

- no angel has a face like the sun as Christ does.

- no angel has feet like pillars of fire, as Christ does.

- no angel has a voice like a lion roaring, as Christ does.

- no angel can swear by God, as Christ the Son of God does.

- no angel has two witnesses, as Christ does.

 

etc, etc. Marilyn. 

[missmuffet]

 

The fact that John by Divine revelation calls the angel of Revelation 10 "ANOTHER mighty angel" (v 1) should be sufficient to confirm that this is merely an angel, and just as there were angels associated with the trumpet judgments in the previous chapter ANOTHER ANGEL (distinct from the preceding angels) has come on the scene for a different purpose.  There is no way that the Holy Spirit would call the Lord Jesus Christ "another angel"!

 

Furthermore, another solid reason why the angel who stands simultaneously upon the earth and upon the sea (and lifts up his hand to Heaven) is NOT CHRIST is that a voice from Heaven is distinct from this angel, and commands John to take the little book out of the hand of this angel (v 8).  That same voice had earlier commanded John to seal up the things which the seven thunders had uttered (v 4). That voice can be none other than the voice of God, or the voice of Christ, speaking while that angel stands on earth.

 

Yes an angel is a created being. A lion, a lamb, an owl, a hen, etc are all God`s creations. Plus gem stones, furniture, stars, sun, rocks, flowers etc, all created by God. All these & more are used to represent some aspect of our glorious Lord. Otherwise how could we in our earthly minds understand such a heavenly being who actually is God.

This comment has no relevance whatsoever, and does not clarify who that angel is.  If anything, it obfuscates the issue.

 

Hi Ezra,

 

In the book of Revelation there are 330 references to the figures, shadows, types, symbols, patterns, persons & buildings of the Old Testament. This unveiling is the culmination of all the truths expressed from Genesis to Revelation, for all scripture is centred on one purpose & that is to reveal Christ to us in all His glory.

 

The third vision of our Lord in Rev. 8 - 13 reveals the exalted Son of Man as the stately Mediator.

 

- no angel has a rainbow over its head, as Christ does.

- no angel has a face like the sun as Christ does.

- no angel has feet like pillars of fire, as Christ does.

- no angel has a voice like a lion roaring, as Christ does.

- no angel can swear by God, as Christ the Son of God does.

- no angel has two witnesses, as Christ does.

 

etc, etc. Marilyn. 

 

No connection to Christ what so ever.