another topic for discussion

[Guest LadyC]

I know laws differ from state to state, but here in Michigan it is considered common law marriage after a couple lives together for 7 years.  7 years to me would qualify as a commitment, considering how many marriages I have seen end in less than half that time.

 

so at what point does God see the living together as a commitment, and recognize it as a valid marriage. 7 years? in God's eyes, did He view them as married from the day they moved in together, or from the 7th year anniversary?

 

in writing this, i'm talking for instance about the couples who move in together with no plans of 'forever' when they do.

[wingnut-]

If they are not committed then they are not committed.  I can't imagine God would recognize a non-committed relationship as a valid union.  I would say that is nothing more than the lust of the flesh.  As for people that enter into such a situation committed to each other, I would say that is a union.  For example, Adam and Eve didn't have a wedding ceremony.

[Guest LadyC]

and what of young lovers who feel the commitment for about five minutes? (and that describes most young couples who move in together, doesn't it?)

 

my goal here is not to be contentious. i simply don't see how we as humans can determine that 'oh, well they live together, so the state sees that as a legitimate marriage, so therefore God must as well." i don't believe a marriage has to be done in a church, and i really don't even believe a marriage has to have the state's approval. but i do believe that in scripture, there was always some sort of public commitment made to one another. most times that included a wedding feast. but i don't recall a single example in scripture where two people just decided they were going to live together and God saw that as marriage rather than fornication.

 

this isn't about our human understanding. it's about what is legit in God's infinite wisdom.

[wingnut-]

I would say that qualifies as uncommitted lol.  Does it make a difference if this young couple ran off to Vegas and took part in a ceremony?  Or visited the Justice of the Peace to get that piece of paper first?  Either way, with or without that piece of paper and the nod of the government, I fail to see how changing your mind is appropriate.  Marriage is sacred, and should not be taken lightly regardless of age.  A piece of paper does not have any effect on the legitimacy of a marriage.

 

Only God can look into people's hearts and know whether they are committed or whether they are just playing semantics with something He holds sacred.  For any believer, they really need to consider that before they even consider making such a commitment.  As far as biblical references, Adam and Eve, legitimate union or not?

 

Honestly what this discussion is all about revolves around how we view marriage based on a societal definition of it.  Where in scripture does God define a legitimate marriage as requiring a ceremony, a piece of paper, and govt approval?  Here in the USA we are blessed with the opportunity to celebrate a wedding reflective of our beliefs.  What about Christians who live in a place hostile towards their beliefs?  Are they required to participate in a ceremony tainted with rituals from a false religion to be seen as legitimate in God's eyes?

[other one]

Solomon married the Pharaoh's daughter to join Egypt and Israel together......

 

People get married for many different reasons......    The European Royalty Marry for particular blood lines and it has nothing to do with love and commitment.    Prince Charles and Lady Diana married for the Stewart blood line for their kids....    Charles seemed to never really leave his true love Camella.

 

 

Were they really ever married in Gods eyes.....    well they did make a covenant with each other so I would say yes.

 

 

When two people move in with each other, it may or may not be any kind of covenant or contract.   Maybe they just want to live together to save money...   sex or no sex, it's still a covenant with much the same reasons of Solomon.  

 

All that to say that what most of us consider a Christian marriage isn't why most people get married.....   not even in the days of Moses and Solomon, so it's really hard to put it all together in one basket.      Did God accept all of Solomon's wives as married....

 

Makes my head hurt to ponder it.

[missmuffet]

 

 

 

What the Bible says about common law marriage.

 

http://www.gotquestions.org/common-law-marriage.html

 

why ask people what they think if you see gotquestions.org as the final authority on a subject? let me ask another question. among those who have common law marriages, what percentage of those do you think are of couples who have made such a covenant with each other and God regarding the permanency and sanctity of their relationship? most people i know who have entered a "common law marriage" never made any covenant at all. they just moved in together, stayed that way long enough for the state to determine it to be legitimate. there are exceptions, of course.

 

Because I always like to see others opinions.I trust Got Questions for their Biblical answers.There are always exceptions to the rule...yes?Have a nice day Lady.

 

 

bopeep, you have no cause to be so dismissive. i asked the question because it is insulting to people when you ask their opinion and then come back with "but gotquestions says". so you've been dismissive to me twice in one thread. and it IS offensive. 

 

and i say that because i respect you and enjoy communicating with you, not because i just want to attack you.

 

for the record, i trust gotquestions most of the time too. and i also reference them. but they are NOT, and should never be, a final answer on anything. they are just a tool. i've found more than once that their answers are not completely in line with scripture. not terribly far off, but not entirely accurate, either. bottom line, THEIR answers are written by human beings, just like you and me, and are just as fallible as you and i. 

 

the only final authority should be scripture. i responded to your question WITH scripture. Jesus Himself told the woman at the well that He knew she'd had 5 husbands, and that she was not married to the person she was currently living with. i realize that's open to interpretation. but it's every bit as valid a point as the opinions expressed on gotquestions, and it is a point they failed to address.

 

How about this Lady  

 

http://www.gotquestions.org/woman-at-the-well.html

[ayin jade]

If they are not committed then they are not committed.  I can't imagine God would recognize a non-committed relationship as a valid union.  I would say that is nothing more than the lust of the flesh.  As for people that enter into such a situation committed to each other, I would say that is a union.  For example, Adam and Eve didn't have a wedding ceremony.

 

I think they did. God brought them together and adam spoke words of commitment. That was a ceremony in my eyes.

 

22 And the LORD God made the rib (which He had taken from the man) into a woman. And He brought her to the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called Woman because she was taken out of man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh.

[wingnut-]

 

If they are not committed then they are not committed.  I can't imagine God would recognize a non-committed relationship as a valid union.  I would say that is nothing more than the lust of the flesh.  As for people that enter into such a situation committed to each other, I would say that is a union.  For example, Adam and Eve didn't have a wedding ceremony.

 

I think they did. God brought them together and adam spoke words of commitment. That was a ceremony in my eyes.

 

22 And the LORD God made the rib (which He had taken from the man) into a woman. And He brought her to the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called Woman because she was taken out of man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh.

 

 

 

I agree with your thoughts on this, but by today's definition that would be called a common law marriage.  No minister, no witnesses, no piece of paper, just two people making a commitment to each other before God.

[Willa]

Heb/ 13:4 NKJV Marriage is honorable among all , and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

Fornication =Porneia = illicit sexual intercourse. Since illicit is another word for illegal and bears the added idea of immoral, we have to conclude that all sexual intercourse without an accepted ceremony, arrangment or legality is fornication. I included other ideas because marriage is not the same in other countries. Some have doweries, some are arranged by parents or tribal leaders, some serve as peace treaties. All have different ceremonies. But all are recognized by the communities as such.

Personally, I would have not felt married without a ring and engagement, a small church wedding, a gown, and vows of commitment before God and close friends and family. Some sort of publication is also necessary. A wedding cake and flowers made it complete. This is what I had always dreamed of as a child. Not everyone has this tradition ingrained in them.

I didn't need to dance with my husband, have a penny for good luck, a garter, or have a feast. A feast is often a tradition, and even a week long feast in Jesus' day when a long bethrothal was also necessary. So the point I am trying to make is that the traditions and laws vary. Each person's expectations vary. It just has to be made official and widely accepted as such by the community from the get go.

Moving in together with sex is fornication. Without sex it is temptation.

[ayin jade]

 

 

If they are not committed then they are not committed.  I can't imagine God would recognize a non-committed relationship as a valid union.  I would say that is nothing more than the lust of the flesh.  As for people that enter into such a situation committed to each other, I would say that is a union.  For example, Adam and Eve didn't have a wedding ceremony.

 

I think they did. God brought them together and adam spoke words of commitment. That was a ceremony in my eyes.

 

22 And the LORD God made the rib (which He had taken from the man) into a woman. And He brought her to the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called Woman because she was taken out of man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh.

 

 

 

I agree with your thoughts on this, but by today's definition that would be called a common law marriage.  No minister, no witnesses, no piece of paper, just two people making a commitment to each other before God.

 

 

I dont view that as a common law marriage though. Common law marriage is 2 people sharing a bed and home for a specified time period and the state deciding it is a marriage. Two people making a commitment before God without it being legal in the eyes of the state isnt doing a real marriage in my view either because it isnt one that is recognized in the eyes of our society. What happened with adam and eve was a marriage that was one in the culture (of a whole 2 people plus God) of the time.