Can Somebody Help Me With This Question.

[Pamelasv]

Yes actually, somewhere in the old testament God does mention them going to sleep. Some day I will come across that again. I just looked up sheol and it is said it is simply a place of the departed, those who have died. That is what I thought. Googled, 'what is sheol'

Edited June 2, 2015 by Pamelasv

[wingnut-]

I thought they went to sleep. Wasn't Samuel cranky about being disturbed by Saul awakening him? Not only that but he was seen coming up out of the earth. Plus, in some of the psalms, the righteous who were emploring God to keep there lives so He could be praised by them. "Will the dust praise you?" I have no idea where this paradise thing comes in. Except the only thing is before Christ arose from the dead, he said in luke on the cross: 'Today you will be with me in paradise.' I just thought of that. I wondered why He said that when he did arise three days later yet, and said He didn't even ascend into heaven yet while seeing some of his followers. I always thought paradise WAS heaven. But why were the old testement saints so afraid of dying and ending up in the dust.

 

 

 

What you have to keep in mind is that everything changed after Jesus was crucified.  Abraham's bosom is no longer occupied.  Not only did Jesus tell the thief on the cross that he would be in paradise with Him on that day, but this was also spoken of by Paul when he wrote that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.  So basically, since Jesus rose Abraham's bosom has been empty, believers go to be with Him.  Not the physical body, because the perishable does not enter paradise.

 

Paradise is the place Jesus said He was going to prepare, so that where He was, we could be also.  Scripture speaks about the tree of life being in paradise, and that it can be found in New Jerusalem, the place He went to prepare for us.  Just my thoughts on the matter, hope that helps, God bless.

[Ezra]

I thought they went to sleep. Wasn't Samuel cranky about being disturbed by Saul awakening him? Not only that but he was seen coming up out of the earth. Plus, in some of the psalms, the righteous who were emploring God to keep there lives so He could be praised by them. "Will the dust praise you?"  

 "Sleep" is used as a metaphor for death in both the Old and New Testaments, because the body "sleeps" in the grave and eventually turns into dust. Thus the connection with dust (Dan 12:2): And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

At the same time you will find multiple references to Sheol in the OT. Take Strong's Exhaustive Concordance and go through references to the grave, the pit, hell, and death.  Sheol was the place of the departed souls and spirits, but there is little in-depth discussion about it.

 

I have no idea where this paradise thing comes in. Except the only thing is before Christ arose from the dead, he said in luke on the cross: 'Today you will be with me in paradise.' I just thought of that. I wondered why He said that when he did arise three days later yet, and said He didn't even ascend into heaven yet while seeing some of his followers. I always thought paradise WAS heaven.

You are correct about Paradise.  The misunderstanding comes because of what Christ said on the Cross.  Sheol was never Paradise, since Paradise was placed in Heaven (in the New Jerusalem) sometime after the Fall.  When Christ died, His soul and spirit went to Sheol/Hades for three days and three nights.  Upon His resurrection, Christ took all the OT saints with Him to Paradise/Heaven/the New Jerusalem. See Rev chapters 20-22.

 

That's what it means when Paul says "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive..." (Eph 4:8).  As long as the OT saints were in Sheol, they were captive.  It is only after the Resurrection that they were freed and went to Heaven.   In anticipation of this movement to Paradise, the Lord told the thief on the Cross that he would be in Paradise.  Enoch and Elijah were the only men who went directly to Heaven in the OT.

[wingnut-]

 

You are correct about Paradise.  The misunderstanding comes because of what Christ said on the Cross.  Sheol was never Paradise, since Paradise was placed in Heaven (in the New Jerusalem) sometime after the Fall.  When Christ died, His soul and spirit went to Sheol/Hades for three days and three nights.  Upon His resurrection, Christ took all the OT saints with Him to Paradise/Heaven/the New Jerusalem. See Rev chapters 20-22.

 

That's what it means when Paul says "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive..." (Eph 4:8).  As long as the OT saints were in Sheol, they were captive.  It is only after the Resurrection that they were freed and went to Heaven.   In anticipation of this movement to Paradise, the Lord told the thief on the Cross that he would be in Paradise.  Enoch and Elijah were the only men who went directly to Heaven in the OT.

 

 

 

That is not completely accurate, Moses was at the transfiguration on the mount, and that was prior to the crucifixion.

[Littlelambseativy]

Those who accept Jesus as Saviour are taken in the rapture. Those OT saints wait for the last trump to sound and then will be raised...they had to keep the commandments they did not have the opportunity to accept Jesus as Saviour and be raptured.

Moses died and God buried him where no one but God knows.

Paradise WAS but is no longer NOR is it in heaven. Jesus told the thief on the cross the moment he died that he would be with Jesus in Paradise, so since Jesus did not ascend to heaven until after He was resurrected Paradise could not have been in heaven. Jesus after His resurrection took the OT saints' souls to heaven to await the last trump...the 2nd part of the first resurrection. Therefore Paradise is no longer and the area or part of Sheol that was Paradise has only made Sheol larger . Sheol was where the unrighteousness souls went and go.

[Pamelasv]

In my opinion, sheol is most often refered to as simply the grave, all the b.c. people slept, except for 2 or 3, ( Moses may have just temporarily rose for that purpose on the mountain before Jesus died--he did commit murder after all, and was not mentioned as being taken up like Elijah and Enoch were, who have no grave, like moses did) and that Abrahams bosom is just another parable, not to be taken literally. That's my opinion(story) and I'm sticking to it.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Pamelasv

[Ezra]

Moses died and God buried him where no one but God knows.

Correct. Moses did not go to Heaven directly, but probably just like Samuel in the OT appeared on earth briefly from Sheol, Moses would have appeared at the Transfiguration from Sheol.  Or if he had been taken up to Heaven, Scripture did not disclose that.

 

Paradise WAS but is no longer NOR is it in heaven

Why would you say "nor is it in Heaven" when Scripture plainly tells us that it is the Heaven, in the New Jerusalem?

 

We know that the Tree of Life was (and now is) in "the midst" of Paradise.  And we also know that the "third heaven" is the Heaven of God's Throne.  Therefore wherever the Tree of Life is now located, so is Paradise, which is in Heaven, and Scripture confirms this:

 

 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.  And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)   How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. (2 Cor 12:2-4)

 

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. (Rev 2:7)

 

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.  In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.  And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: (Rev 22:1-3).

[Ezra]

 that Abrahams bosom is just another parable, not to be taken literally.

 

So when Jesus said that He would be "in the heart of the earth" (also called "the lower parts of the earth") for three days and three nights, where exactly was he?  And what did Paul mean when he said that at His ascension "He led captivity captive", but first he descended to "the lower parts of the earth"?

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Pamelasv

   I believe as you do,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Amen,,,,,I am also not convinced that the punctuation marks added(Luke 23:43) in the English texts (from the Greek transcripts)may have been placed accurately .........& I don't care to hear anyones"speculation" about this,it would be for another topic,,,,,,let's move it over one word......

 

King James Bible
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.                                                                             Luke 23:43

See what I am saying?                         To God be the Glory                                              With love-in Christ,Kwik

[Pamelasv]

 that Abrahams bosom is just another parable, not to be taken literally.

 

So when Jesus said that He would be "in the heart of the earth" (also called "the lower parts of the earth") for three days and three nights, where exactly was he?  And what did Paul mean when he said that at His ascension "He led captivity captive", but first he descended to "the lower parts of the earth"?

Do not know, but not sure what that has to do with Abrahams bosom parable. The spiritual world is a different realm right here which we cannot see unless the Lord unveils our eyes. Funny tho because physically Jesus wasn't in the lower parts of the earth but in a cave type of tomb with a stone rolled to cover the entrance.