10 kings

[tigger398]

 

 

So I was wondering .. does anybody disagree with the above discernment?

You are correct.  These kings (rulers or political leaders) are human beings.  Furthermore, all the hierarchies of evil angels under Satan have already been cast down to the earth (see Rev 12).

 

that sign in the heavens that is described in the first two verses has not happened since the days of Adam and Eve.....   they will occur on September 23'rd 2017.

 

 

what will happen on sept. 23, 2017

[Last Daze]

 

Hi Wes,

 

What kings do you think verse 44 is referring to?

 

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From these verses I believe that the fourth kingdom will rise (the world government) with 10 kings named to have authority over it. The little horn (the antichrist) will immediately subdue three of the ten and usurp control of the world government. He will rule the kingdom for the next 3 1/2 years along with the false prophet. On the day of the Lord, the antichrist will receive his deadly wound and be revived. At that time , the ten kings will have their hour with the beast; one hour on the day of the Lord.

 

 

 

Hey Jeff,

 

You have to remember that "kings" and "kingdoms" refer to the same thing.  For what is a kingdom without a king and a king without a kingdom?

 

These great beasts, which are four in number, are four kings who will arise from the earth.  Daniel 7:17

The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth  Daniel 7:23

 

So, the kings (kingdoms) being referred to in verse 44 are the aforementioned kingdoms of Babylon, etc.  Those are "those kings" he is referring to.

 

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The three horns are ripped out by the roots.  To me, that means dead.  Can't get any more subdued than that.

[Watching for Jesus]

 

 

 

 

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Hey Jeff,

 

You have to remember that "kings" and "kingdoms" refer to the same thing.  For what is a kingdom without a king and a king without a kingdom?

 

These great beasts, which are four in number, are four kings who will arise from the earth.  Daniel 7:17

The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth  Daniel 7:23

 

So, the kings (kingdoms) being referred to in verse 44 are the aforementioned kingdoms of Babylon, etc.  Those are "those kings" he is referring to.

 

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The three horns are ripped out by the roots.  To me, that means dead.  Can't get any more subdued than that.

 

 

 

 

Hi Wes,

 

 

Daniel 2:44.  And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

 

 

 

Verse 44 says that in the days of these kings that the God of heaven shall set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed.  Are you saying that God set up His kingdom back in the time of Babylon, Media-Persia and Greece?

 

 

 

Revelation 17:12.  And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

 13.  These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

 14.  These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

 15.  And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

 16.  And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

 

 

Are you saying that the ten kings will fight against Jesus and burn Babylon before they are subdued by the antichrist?

 

Jeff

 

[Serving]

Hi Watching,

 

 

 

The ten kings will mingle themselves with the seed of men.

 

 

I myself don't see it being the kings themselves  mingling .. but see it as the populations in these kingdoms being mingled .. ie multiculturalism .. & though cultural differences prevent the populations truly being as one .. they can still work together within a national capacity .. but that cultural divide, like we already & still see in multicultural host nations, is what I believe God meant by not cleaving together ..  

 

 

Here's why .. see what you think brother ..

 

 

 

Daniel 2:41.  And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

 

 

Here the feet & toes together make up "the kingdom" .. that's a grouping of nations spoken of in the singular .. "the kingdom" ..

 

 

So far then .. feet & toes = "the kingdom" .. where .. "in it" .. specifically .. "it" .. which we saw was reference to the feet & toes = "the" kingdom ..

 

 

So,  a loop begins .. "the" & "it" = the kingdom.

 

 

 

 42.  And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

 

 

"the kingdom" .. the collective consisting of individual parts (nations)

  

 

 

43.  And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

 

 

So to me, the theme is consistent and the descriptives are all speaking of the same entity .. 

 

"The" was specific & singular .. that is .. "The kingdom" = self explanatory   .. "the" ..

 

"It" = was referring to "the" .. that is, "it" was referring to "the kingdom" again .. "the"& "It"..

 

And "they" was just another descriptive concerning "the"& "it" meaning those individual nations which make up the "the" .. "the kingdom"

 

 

Thus when I read "the"& "it"& "they"  I see it meaning the kingdoms themselves & not the 10 kings who are mingling with the seed of men ..

 

 

Aaaaand .. because of that context .. this is what I see :

 

 

And whereas thou sawest iron (the strong nations within the union = individual nations = 10 toes that make up one kingdom  .. "the"& "it"& "they") mixed (uniting) with miry clay (the weak nations), they ( all those nations from that kingdom in that union) shall mingle themselves (multiculturalism) with the seed (races) of men  : but they (the kingdoms populations) shall not cleave one to another (differing cultures), even as iron is not mixed with clay . (exactly like the cultural differences we still can see today within multicultural nations .. what they call the cultural divide where certain "norms" from each race's cultures negatively & stubbornly persist & sometimes even harshly clash within the host nations) 

 

 

So to me, "they" refers to the kingdoms themselves & their inhabitants that are mingling together and is not speaking of Nephelim or the like ..  so my interpretation is a lot more boring but see what you think anyways.

 

 

Thanks brother.

 

 

 

 

 

[Serving]

 

So I was wondering .. does anybody disagree with the above discernment?

You are correct.  These kings (rulers or political leaders) are human beings.  Furthermore, all the hierarchies of evil angels under Satan have already been cast down to the earth (see Rev 12).

 

 

 

Glad you see the same on this subject brother .. and I agree .. I see those angels under Satan & Satan himself as being already cast out of heaven .. cast out right before Christ's ascension .. likely during His 3 days in the grave so He our Lord could ascend to a cleaned up & ordered home coming..

 

Thanks Ezra.

[Last Daze]

 

Daniel 2:44.  And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

 

Verse 44 says that in the days of these kings that the God of heaven shall set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed.  Are you saying that God set up His kingdom back in the time of Babylon, Media-Persia and Greece?

 

-----------------------

 

Revelation 17:12.  And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

 13.  These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

 14.  These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

 15.  And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

 16.  And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

 

Are you saying that the ten kings will fight against Jesus and burn Babylon before they are subdued by the antichrist?

 

 

Hey Jeff,

 

Good observations that certainly need reconciling.

 

I can't overemphasize the importance of realizing that natural kingdoms have a supernatural origin.  The natural realm is influenced by the supernatural.  The Persian kingdom would not have come about without the prince of Persia, an evil angel.  The same holds true for Babylon, Greece, Rome, and so on.  So when you think of these kingdoms, don't think geography, think angelic prince because they are the true source.  That being said, it is true that the stone hits the statue on the feet of iron and clay because that is the earthly manifestation at that time; however, all of the princes of the previous kingdoms are actively involved.  This is evidenced by comparing the description of the beast from the sea in Rev 13 to the four beasts of Daniel 7.

 

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The ten horns are also fallen angels AND they are the human leaders they influence.  The ten that fight the Lamb are angelic.  The three that are uprooted are human.  The ten angelic horns influence ten human horns to do their bidding which is to set up a global electronic economy.  It takes a while to set the trap. When it is sprung, Babylon the city is destroyed and the ten humans reign for an hour.  The ten humans have served their purpose and it's time for the false prophet to rule.  The little horn comes up among the ten and shuts down their control of the electronic economy.  This was the plan of the ten angels all along; use the ten humans then kick them to the curb in favor of the false prophet.  Three of the ten humans attack the false prophet after being "had" and he essentially burns them to the ground.  With the amazing signs and wonders, he declares himself to be God and issues his mark which is the only one that will work in the new economy.  That's how I see it anyway.

 

The natural / supernatural connection....it helps make sense of a lot of things, if you can see it.

 

Then Elisha prayed and said, “O Lord, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” And the Lord opened the servant’s eyes and he saw; and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.  2 Kings 6:17

[Serving]

 

Greetings fellow brethren,

 

 

I just want to bring up something about the 10 kings of Daniel & Revelation regarding the views of whether they are human or angelic rulers ..

 

 

But first,

 

I'd like to confirm that I do understand & I do believe that every nation on earth is ruled over by demonic princes under one king .. Satan, & that Satan himself has allotted these fallen angels each their own dominions within their groups or units .. of which groups / units are likewise assigned their specific ranks & tasks & duties within their allotted dominions & all adhering to one single & rebellious chain of command ..

 

 

Just as Satan boasted to our Lord Jesus about his ownership over the worlds kingdoms ..

 

 

Luke 4:5-6  And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed, unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

  

 

This shows that any high ranking demonic ruler residing over any of these kingdoms must likewise be appointed by Satan too .. since he is the one who gives "to whomsoever I will give" within this worldly domain. 

 

 

Of which thing Christ confirmed in this related declaration :

 

 

Matthew 12:25-26 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

 

 

Of which thing the Apostles too clearly understood ..

 

 

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

 

Rulers .. plural .. rulers under Satan .. This being the case, this understanding must likewise reveal that all these demonic princes with their allotted legions under Satan all have one shared goal & one goal only .. Satan's. 

 

 

Which leads to my question regarding the ten kings ..

 

 

 

Q: If the 10 kings were demonic princes .. would God need to do this:

 

 

 

Revelation 17:16-17 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

 

 

Remembering  .. that since the beast above is Satan's "property" anyway .. those demonic rulers over the nations which will eventually constitute the coming beast are already operating in Satan's name .. they already gave themselves to Satan long time ago .. that is,  besides their kingdoms not being  theirs to give unto the beast as they please (those kingdoms are Satan's to give as he pleases) .. besides that point, those demonic rulers need no prompting from God to unite with something they are already united with !! 

 

 

One more time .. God would have no need to persuade demonic princes to join together as one under a satanic beast union because these demonic princes already agree with their king (lest their kingdom be divided & fall) so this persuasion need not be put in their hearts by God because their hearts are already with Satan and their assigned rule with him has always been united against God!

 

 

So to me, they can not be 10 demonic kings who give their kingdom to the beast .. which demonic kings are & already long time united and already agree as one with Satan anyway .. which leaves only one other option .. they must be men.

 

 

So I was wondering .. does anybody disagree with the above discernment?

 

 

Thanks.

 

Hey Serving.

 

Nice post and good observation!  There are two sides to the issue...supernatural and natural.

 

The prince of Persia was an evil angel, Persia was a natural kingdom.  Same with the prince of Greece and so on.

 

The ten horns are evil angels and they have counterparts in the natural realm.

 

Said of the ten horns:

 

These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”  Revelation 17:14

 

I believe this is a reference to the spiritual horns.  Their counterparts, the natural horns, seem to meet their fate ahead of that time.

 

While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth uttering great boasts.  Daniel 7:8

 

I believe your reference above about "God putting it in their hearts" refers to the natural 10 kings.  This does not preclude there from also being 10 spiritual kings.

 

As I see it, the 10 spiritual horns use the 10 natural horns to set up their electronic economy then kick them to the curb so the false prophet can take the reins, set up the AoD, issue his mark, etc.

 

The natural / supernatural connection....it helps make sense of a lot of things.

 

 

Hi Last Daze,

 

Glad you joined in, I've run out of time tonight but will answer you as soon as I get back online sometime late tomorrow night ..

 

God bless brother.

[other one]

 

 

 

So I was wondering .. does anybody disagree with the above discernment?

You are correct.  These kings (rulers or political leaders) are human beings.  Furthermore, all the hierarchies of evil angels under Satan have already been cast down to the earth (see Rev 12).

 

that sign in the heavens that is described in the first two verses has not happened since the days of Adam and Eve.....   they will occur on September 23'rd 2017.

 

 

what will happen on sept. 23, 2017

 

that vision will be in the sky concerning constellations..      and from what I have been able to find, it's really unique.

 

The sun will be just over the shoulder of Virgo and the moon at her feet; with the nine stars of Leo above her head and three other planets in Leo making the 12 above her head.....   Jupiter will be just below her body between her legs as just been born.      This has never aligned that way in the past 7,000 years that I have checked.....      and at least a thousand years in the future.

 

So if you think the stars and constellations can be used as signs as is recorded in Genesis 1:14 it's kind of interesting to look into these things.

[Ezra]

  Furthermore, all the hierarchies of evil angels under Satan have already been cast down to the earth (see Rev 12).

What is the relevance of that statement to the point in question?

 

 

I do believe that every nation on earth is ruled over by demonic princes under one king

This statement was in the OP and while it is true for the present, it will not be true after Revelation 12 is fulfilled.  Since Revelation 13-17 comes after that, it will not be true at that time also.  All the evil spirits will lose their power in the heavenlies and will be cast down to the earth before the Beast takes control of the world.

[Serving]

Hey Last Daze .. I made time to answer after all 

 

 

 

Nice post and good observation!

 

 

Thanks Daze.

 

 

 

There are two sides to the issue...supernatural and natural.

 

 

Agreed ..

 

 

 

The prince of Persia was an evil angel, Persia was a natural kingdom.  Same with the prince of Greece and so on.

 

 

I do agree with you that there are fallen angels presiding over nations Daze, but we really don't know the type of "leadership structure" Satan has in place is the problem .. what I mean is .. look at what Daniel also said at the end of 10:13 .. "and I remained there with the kings of Persia".. kings .. plural .. kings of Persia at that.. which raises some questions of it's own concerning "type of demonic leadership structure" Satan has in place ..

 

Not only that, and I'm not being smart here bro, just observing .. shouldn't the beast imagery format given in the scriptures be consistent unless otherwise stated?

 

What I mean is this .. you mentioned Persia for example, Daniel ch8 describes her as a ram .. a ram is a beast .. & this ram represented physical Persia, not the spirit side .. and this ram also had two horns, and those horns stood for human kings .. not angelic kings .. that whole beast imagery then only dealt with the physical .. then we had Greece, the Leopard, and again, the Leopard represented the physical as did it's notable horn .. not forgetting the 4 heads of the Leopard representing 4 human men .. isn't this a prophetic theme being set down for the sake of those (us) who live in the physical to identify said beasts and their horns so as to be able to see God's prophetic arm at work in the world around us?

 

 

 

The ten horns are evil angels and they have counterparts in the natural realm.

 

 

Hey Daze, these 10 horns in question are attached to the 4th beast which came out of the same sea as the other 3 beasts before it right .. so it & it's horns must be made up of the same substance as the other beasts wouldn't you agree? (sea means peoples & nations & tongues & multitudes ..meaning .. flesh) wouldn't the 10 horns be a physical representation too since they are part of the physical beast anatomy being expressed?

 

Wasn't the first beast like a lion all to do with the physical (the king & his kingdom), likewise the ram and it's horns all being expressed imagery of physical manifestations? Doesn't the Leopard imagery with his notable horn & his 4 heads likewise represent the physical? Isn't this a prophetic theme being set?

 

& then along comes this 4th beast emerging out of the very same sea as the others .. shouldn't then that 4th beasts representation relate to the physical just like the rest of the beasts did?  & likewise it's 10 horns to do with men just as the other beasts horns were to do with human kings before it? Since they are all made up of the same substance & come up out of the same source ..  that source being "the sea" .. meaning flesh .. doesn't that make the horns physical too since they are part of the beast anatomy just like the other beasts horns before it?

 

 

 

Said of the ten horns:

 

These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”  Revelation 17:14

I believe this is a reference to the spiritual horns.  Their counterparts, the natural horns, seem to meet their fate ahead of that time.

 

 

As I see it only 3 kings got uprooted .. I am not sure how you came to this conclusion Daze? .. that all the 10 human kings met their fate before Christ's 2nd coming? .. maybe bring forth the necessary scriptures revealing the differences so I can see your angle better .. perhaps?

 

 

 

While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth uttering great boasts.  Daniel 7:8

 
I believe your reference above about "God putting it in their hearts" refers to the natural 10 kings.  This does not preclude there from also being 10 spiritual kings.

 

 

Ahhhhh .. is this one of the scriptural examples I just asked for in the above that has you seeing the kings (not only those 3 but all of them) being kicked to the curb before Christ's 2nd coming? .. leaving then, like you said,  only the angelic kings to fight Christ at His return? More specific .. was it the usage of "before it" that brought about this line of thought perhaps?

 

If so? .. don't forget that "before it" also means "in the presence of" or "in the sight of".

 

As is the meaning of "before it"" in this case because of this  :

 

Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

 

 

 

As I see it, the 10 spiritual horns use the 10 natural horns to set up their electronic economy then kick them to the curb so the false prophet can take the reins, set up the AoD, issue his mark, etc.

 

 

I'm not sure how you are discerning when to know the spirit kings are being spoken of compared to when the physical kings are being spoken of bro? Maybe you can provide some scriptures that reveal the differences?

 

 

 

The natural / supernatural connection....it helps make sense of a lot of things.

 

 

Again, I agree there is a spiritual side to this too .. but to me, the spirit side is not included in the descriptive .. seeing the 10 horns seem to stick with the theme of purely physical manifestations that the angel laid out to Daniel .. again, I am quite prepared to hear your reasons using scriptures as to how you are discerning when the 10 horns are being portrayed as humans opposed to identifying when they are representing the spirit kings .. (also, does this mean that 3 spirit kings get kicked to the curb too? Again, how do we discern the difference?

 

Look forward to hearing from you Daze

 

Regards.