Church leaders and theological and seminary training

[firestormx]

 

 

Hi Firestormx,

 

The Holy Spirit only needs a faithful heart. There is nothing that can be learned in formal study that the Holy Spirit cannot teach.

 

 

I highly respect formal study as it can provide a solid foundation for faith. But, as someone who has engaged in more than 4 years, full-time, formal theological study, I can tell you with certainty that you’ll learn more from time in fellowship with God, then from a classroom.

 

 

A minister’s relationship with God is far more important than their education. Paul tells Timothy to pass sound doctrine onto “faithful men” (2 Tim 2:2) – NOT educated men.

 

 

Again – I am not belittling formal education. Paul himself was very highly educated. But there is no standard in scripture that only the formally educated can attain to positions of example in the church.

Thanks for the post. I guess I'm just curious how other believers are qualifying there leaders. If they just take on faith the person preaching the word should be up there doing it, or if they use a standard to qualify a leader in the church.

 

I always check out a Pastor's credentials before I attend a Church.

 

Curious,  In regards to believers are you the exception to checking out a pastors credentials or the rule???? Just thinking out loud Bopeep1909, no need to answer.

[missmuffet]

These are the credentials of the Pastor of a Church that I used to attend.I have since moved away from that area.He is a wonderful speaker and preached from the Bible.His sermons were full of history of the Bible,God's true Word and he had a great sense of humor and made the congregation laugh often.The Church started out very,very small and grew so big that I was uncomfortable with attending such a large Church.

 

Paul and his wife Nancy have four adult children. He holds an undergraduate degree from Biola University and an M.A. from the University of Oregon. He is also a graduate of Western Seminary in Portland, Oregon with both a Master of Divinity and a Doctor of Ministry. Paul also teaches at Western Seminary as an adjunct professor.

[firestormx]

These are the credentials of the Pastor of a Church that I used to attend.I have since moved away from that area.He is a wonderful speaker and preached from the Bible.His sermons were full of history of the Bible,God's true Word and he had a great sense of humor and made the congregation laugh often.The Church started out very,very small and grew so big that I was uncomfortable with attending such a large Church.

 

Paul and his wife Nancy have four adult children. He holds an undergraduate degree from Biola University and an M.A. from the University of Oregon. He is also a graduate of Western Seminary in Portland, Oregon with both a Master of Divinity and a Doctor of Ministry. Paul also teaches at Western Seminary as an adjunct professor.

Thanks for sharing

[Tristen]

 

Hi Firestormx,

 

The Holy Spirit only needs a faithful heart. There is nothing that can be learned in formal study that the Holy Spirit cannot teach.

 

 

I highly respect formal study as it can provide a solid foundation for faith. But, as someone who has engaged in more than 4 years, full-time, formal theological study, I can tell you with certainty that you’ll learn more from time in fellowship with God, then from a classroom.

 

 

A minister’s relationship with God is far more important than their education. Paul tells Timothy to pass sound doctrine onto “faithful men” (2 Tim 2:2) – NOT educated men.

 

 

Again – I am not belittling formal education. Paul himself was very highly educated. But there is no standard in scripture that only the formally educated can attain to positions of example in the church.

Thanks for the post. I guess I'm just curious how other believers are qualifying there leaders. If they just take on faith the person preaching the word should be up there doing it, or if they use a standard to qualify a leader in the church.

 

 

Hey Firestormx,

 

I suppose I would expect someone desiring to be a minister to have a good working knowledge of scripture – which could be attained through personal study in conjunction with the Holy Spirit. I assume frequent study of scripture to be typical of fellowship with God.

 

I would also expect a potential minister to have a good track record of faithfulness and “good fruits”. That is, it would be unwise to promote a “novice” (1 Tim 3:5-7) to a position of example.

 

 

But at the end of the day, what you know is less important than Who you know.

[firestormx]

 

 

Hi Firestormx,

 

The Holy Spirit only needs a faithful heart. There is nothing that can be learned in formal study that the Holy Spirit cannot teach.

 

 

I highly respect formal study as it can provide a solid foundation for faith. But, as someone who has engaged in more than 4 years, full-time, formal theological study, I can tell you with certainty that you’ll learn more from time in fellowship with God, then from a classroom.

 

 

A minister’s relationship with God is far more important than their education. Paul tells Timothy to pass sound doctrine onto “faithful men” (2 Tim 2:2) – NOT educated men.

 

 

Again – I am not belittling formal education. Paul himself was very highly educated. But there is no standard in scripture that only the formally educated can attain to positions of example in the church.

Thanks for the post. I guess I'm just curious how other believers are qualifying there leaders. If they just take on faith the person preaching the word should be up there doing it, or if they use a standard to qualify a leader in the church.

 

 

Hey Firestormx,

 

I suppose I would expect someone desiring to be a minister to have a good working knowledge of scripture – which could be attained through personal study in conjunction with the Holy Spirit. I assume frequent study of scripture to be typical of fellowship with God.

 

I would also expect a potential minister to have a good track record of faithfulness and “good fruits”. That is, it would be unwise to promote a “novice” (1 Tim 3:5-7) to a position of example.

 

 

But at the end of the day, what you know is less important than Who you know.

 

Thank you for the response. May God Bless you

[Steve_S]

Do you think leaders in the church ( Pastors, Apostles, Prophets, Elders, Bishops and Deacons ) should be required to get college training in theology? I saw this brought up in another thread. I was wondering how other believers felt about this. Should it be a requirement? If you don't believe that Apostles or Prophets are for today that's fine. I'm not looking to debate that here, please just ignore those 2. Just curious how other Christians are wanting their Church leadership qualified . Can God qualify someone on his own without college training in theology? Is there a concern that college training in theology is just getting the doctrine of men and/or the approval of man?

 

 

 

God bless 

Firestormx

 

Blessings brother.

 

I don't think it necessary nor do I think it a bad idea. I know guys who had no formal theological training at all who are great expositors and I know guys who wanted to join the ministry and felt the best way for them to get more in depth scriptural training was to go through a seminary/college type program. I also know guys who went straight in basically out of high school. I think it's dangerous to disqualify people from pastoral positions based on *not* having attended a seminary, but also unwise to discount some of the benefits that may come along with such training for those who have. At the end of the day bachelors, masters and doctorates have no real bearing on anything aside from proving that someone actually went through the training itself. There are biblical standards for pastorship, however, that obviously transcend that. The schooling is (ideally) just another tool that aids a person in ministry. Focusing too much on the title can in and of itself be dangerous as well, in my opinion.

[firestormx]

 

Do you think leaders in the church ( Pastors, Apostles, Prophets, Elders, Bishops and Deacons ) should be required to get college training in theology? I saw this brought up in another thread. I was wondering how other believers felt about this. Should it be a requirement? If you don't believe that Apostles or Prophets are for today that's fine. I'm not looking to debate that here, please just ignore those 2. Just curious how other Christians are wanting their Church leadership qualified . Can God qualify someone on his own without college training in theology? Is there a concern that college training in theology is just getting the doctrine of men and/or the approval of man?

 

 

 

God bless 

Firestormx

 

Blessings brother.

 

I don't think it necessary nor do I think it a bad idea. I know guys who had no formal theological training at all who are great expositors and I know guys who wanted to join the ministry and felt the best way for them to get more in depth scriptural training was to go through a seminary/college type program. I also know guys who went straight in basically out of high school. I think it's dangerous to disqualify people from pastoral positions based on *not* having attended a seminary, but also unwise to discount some of the benefits that may come along with such training for those who have. At the end of the day bachelors, masters and doctorates have no real bearing on anything aside from proving that someone actually went through the training itself. There are biblical standards for pastorship, however, that obviously transcend that. The schooling is (ideally) just another tool that aids a person in ministry. Focusing too much on the title can in and of itself be dangerous as well, in my opinion.

 

Thanks for the post

[The_Patriot21]

probably be a decision to each church. Ive met some wonderful pastors who have come out of seminary. I myself have had some bible college training. However, some of the best pastors, including the one at the church I'm attending, have no formal bible schooling, and often, have a different outlook on the Bible that I appreciate it-a lot of pastors with professional schooling have a lot of book knowledge-but not a lot of practical experience with life, so I find it easier to relate to a solid pastor without any schooling. I'm not knocking those with schooling-but I don't see where its a necessity. Anyone can pick that Bible up and study it, and preach from it. Scripture doesn't change based upon who reads it-just your understanding of it, and the more you study the more you can understand, and a degree doesn't mean you understand it more then a rancher whos been studying it all his life.

[firestormx]

probably be a decision to each church. Ive met some wonderful pastors who have come out of seminary. I myself have had some bible college training. However, some of the best pastors, including the one at the church I'm attending, have no formal bible schooling, and often, have a different outlook on the Bible that I appreciate it-a lot of pastors with professional schooling have a lot of book knowledge-but not a lot of practical experience with life, so I find it easier to relate to a solid pastor without any schooling. I'm not knocking those with schooling-but I don't see where its a necessity. Anyone can pick that Bible up and study it, and preach from it. Scripture doesn't change based upon who reads it-just your understanding of it, and the more you study the more you can understand, and a degree doesn't mean you understand it more then a rancher whos been studying it all his life.

Thank you for the post.

[Openly Curious]

Do you think leaders in the church ( Pastors, Apostles, Prophets, Elders, Bishops and Deacons ) should be required to get college training in theology?

I think it is God who calls and gifts accordingly. I believe God will also equip that person in the gifting and calling God has placed on their life. I think it is very important for church leaders to "Study to show themselves aproved unto God a workman that needeth not be ashamed". Sometimes it is so obvious that a church leader did not study the lesson out that they are trying to deliver. I could give examples that would make you shake your head in that avenue in how they didn't study. I don't believe in a so called requirement that church leaders have to get training at a college in order to be an effectual minister of God as you can become an effectual leader without a college education or training in theology. After all it is God who adds to the church such as should be saved all we have to do is be faithful in the work he has called us to do. I am not against those who do go to a christian college to further their personal education. But I have listened to church leaders who went to christian colleges and come out knowing nothing about the word of God. But they knew all about coming up with all kind of gimmicks in how to grow their churches as they had been taught in college. I'm not against education and knowledge but when a church leader has no knowledge of the bible or has never read it one time then I see a definate problem there with going to colleges. I believe a church leader should be educated in the theology found in the written word of God and learn how to put together sound doctrine that will save both them and their hearers.

just curious how other Christians are wanting their Church leadership qualified .

I personally want all church leaders every where especially any that would be over me to have their education from the pages of God's Word not just superficial either but really know what is in the bible as a whole from front to back cover. This kind of education and being taught of the Lord from the pages of His word is far more important than what any college will ever have to offer and college education will never compare to what the bible teaches un in the inspired word of God.

Apostle Paul told and warned young Timothy as a pastor of these words in...

1 Timothy 1:6-7 - From which some having swerved have turned aside unto "vain janglings"; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

There are church leaders out there that know nothing about the word of God they desire to be teachers of the law even but they don't know the bible so the only thing that is coming out of their mouths is "vain janglings" or a bunch of "babble" that is based on nothing as they cannot even show that what they are teaching is affirmed in the scripture. But yet because of that desire to be a teacher they swerve from God's word and become a cloud having no water as Jude said they have no subtance from God to offer you. Just a bunch of gobbly goop. There are blind guides why because they are void of the truth found in God's Word.

The colleges of today in their training materials that are a requirement to read to become a church leader are nothing more than books. While they may be interesting books to read the scriptures are not a part of their training or reading materials at all nor a requirement. So how can a church leader lead without the instuctions from the word of God.

Can God qualify someone on his own without college training in theology?

Of course God can qualify (equip) a person without any college training in theology. After all it is "God's calling and vocation" that he gifts the church leaders with. No college can place that call of God on an individuals life nor can they make one walk worthy of their vocation and calling in which God gave to them. A matter of fact the scriptures in Ephesians 4 shows that God uses the giftings of the saints to minister and edify or uplift the body of Christ and that from babes (new Christians in the Lord) we will grow to maturity and when we become adults in the Lord we ourselves will take on the work of the ministering to the saints as others will come to adulthood in Christ and the cycle God put in place for training those he calls continues and it works And it works even without college education being given. The church is far better off being trained and equipped by the saints with those in whom God has prepared before us in the work of God. The church should be the teacher and trainer of God's theology in the Bible.

Is there a concern that college training in theology is just getting the doctrine of men and/or the approval of man?

There is difianately a concern when it comes to my opinion from the things I have already mentioned and observed. This is a problem in especially denominaltional churches in which they have the big headquaters that is over all the churches within that denomination. They train their ministers only to grow the churches by having gimmicks as I call them just things to get people into the church and fill the pews but then there is no God that is offered or no word of God given and these people though in church for whatever pulled them there is not trained or led in the admonition of the Word of God. They are just at church for the fun and fellowship or the free food that night that was offered. But the training is not the Bible that they are being taught. This kind of doctrine and training will always get the approval of men and grow in popularity because there is nothing demanded in way of christianity being offered in the midst. It's nothing more than social club. People are lured to the church but then they find no reconciliation to the Father throught the Son as they find no Jesus when they get there.