Rapture: Fact or Fiction

[Marilyn C]

Hi Reconstructionist89,

 

I am reading your work & will get back to you. May take a couple of days as busy here at the moment. BTW it is a subject that needs to be discussed, so glad you brought it up.

 

Marilyn.

[Reconstructionist89]

Thank you for your consideration and take all the time you need. God bless

[missmuffet]

Rapture-fact.Read the Bible.

[Ezra]

My response to this post would be:

 

1. The Rapture is a biblical fact.  While that word is not found in the KJB (it is derived from the Latin in the Vulgate which is rapiemur for harpazo), the Greek text has harpagesometha = "caught up together", which makes it an absolute certainty.  The title of this thread should not include "Fact or Fiction", but simply "Rapture: When?"

 

2. While there is no EXPLICIT Scripture that states "There will be a Pre-Tribulation Rapture" Scripture is very clear that Christians are not "appointed to wrath but to obtain salvation".  That in itself implies that the Tribulation Period is for the unbelieving world, and the Great Tribulation is for the ungodly and the enemies of Christ.  This is quite distinct from the trials and tribulations of believers on earth.

 

3. There is not a single verse in Revelation even hinting at a catching up of the Church.  Since the judgments of Revelation coincide with the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation, there is no proof whatsover of a mid- or post-Tribulation Rapture. It is all guesswork and conjecture, and mixing the trumpets of Judgment with the trump of God bringing ultimate Salvation to the Church.

[Reconstructionist89]

My response to this post would be:

1. The Rapture is a biblical fact. While that word is not found in the KJB (it is derived from the Latin in the Vulgate which is rapiemur for harpazo), the Greek text has harpagesometha = "caught up together", which makes it an absolute certainty. The title of this thread should not include "Fact or Fiction", but simply "Rapture: When?"

2. While there is no EXPLICIT Scripture that states "There will be a Pre-Tribulation Rapture" Scripture is very clear that Christians are not "appointed to wrath but to obtain salvation". That in itself implies that the Tribulation Period is for the unbelieving world, and the Great Tribulation is for the ungodly and the enemies of Christ. This is quite distinct from the trials and tribulations of believers on earth.

3. There is not a single verse in Revelation even hinting at a catching up of the Church. Since the judgments of Revelation coincide with the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation, there is no proof whatsover of a mid- or post-Tribulation Rapture. It is all guesswork and conjecture, and mixing the trumpets of Judgment with the trump of God bringing ultimate Salvation to the Church.

[FreeinChrist]

Haven't read all of your work plan on doing it Saturday night when I don't work. But really like and agree with what I have read so far. If it wasn't for the Rapture Theory I would consider myself Indepent Baptist but I can't in good conscience agree with it and feel some IB hold this in to high of regard.

[Reconstructionist89]

My response to this post would be:

1. The Rapture is a biblical fact. While that word is not found in the KJB (it is derived from the Latin in the Vulgate which is rapiemur for harpazo), the Greek text has harpagesometha = "caught up together", which makes it an absolute certainty. The title of this thread should not include "Fact or Fiction", but simply "Rapture: When?"

2. While there is no EXPLICIT Scripture that states "There will be a Pre-Tribulation Rapture" Scripture is very clear that Christians are not "appointed to wrath but to obtain salvation". That in itself implies that the Tribulation Period is for the unbelieving world, and the Great Tribulation is for the ungodly and the enemies of Christ. This is quite distinct from the trials and tribulations of believers on earth.

3. There is not a single verse in Revelation even hinting at a catching up of the Church. Since the judgments of Revelation coincide with the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation, there is no proof whatsover of a mid- or post-Tribulation Rapture. It is all guesswork and conjecture, and mixing the trumpets of Judgment with the trump of God bringing ultimate Salvation to the Church.

[Reconstructionist89]

1. In response to your first point of being "caught up" according to the literal Greek translation necessitates "with absolute certainty" begs the question. No one denies believers will be caught up. The context of the text refers to the general resurrection of all believers prior to the second advent of Christ. There are many doctrines that are true without explicitly stating the word we use to define them (ex. The trinity). The difference being there is substantial evidence of comparing scripture with scripture that such a doctrine is implicitly being taught. To reduce my agreement to simply saying since the literal word Rapture isn't stated is a staw man you erroneous wove. You would need to show that the being caught up together in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 doesn't refer to the general revelation which could only be done by presupossing it as true and removing it from its Co text. Paul was assuring new believers of their brother's and sister's in Christ who had passed away that just as Christ rose again so would they. Such an interpretation if if ignores the following verse and we shall always be with the Lord (not x amount of years) the return with the Lord to earth and reign for a millenia where mortals and immortals coexist).

2. Believers are not appointed to wrath but the Great Tribulation you speak of cannot be extended into the future due to Jesus explicit statement "these things shall not pass away till these things take place" and literal rendering is the Greek genea (which used 5 times in Matthew always refers to the present generation). The entire context was in reference to the temple and it's destruction in Matthew 24 and prior 23. Their were believers on earth when Jesus came I judgement upon Israel and they survived. To assume believers must not be present on earth during the Tribulation in order to survive is erroneous.

3. The events in Revelation coincide with the events of the Great Tribulation proves my point. John said he was a partner during the early stages of the Tribulation that was in its beginning stages Revelation 1:9. The time was indeed near at hand for those churches to whom he wrote.

[MorningGlory]

Pardon my ignorance. I'm still new ro the site. Any feedback is appreciated whether positive or negative. Thank you for the tip. What am I leaving out in the url?

 

Read the P.M. I sent you......

[Marilyn C]

Hi Reconstructionist89,

 

You have brought up two very relevant topics –

 

1. The Purpose of the Body of Christ while on earth.
2. The Rapture. (yes or no)

 

There are many threads on the rapture, however if you would like to discuss/debate with me on that we can go to the soap-box area. There just the two of us can discuss/debate. Others can view but not post. Thus it gives us room to present our views without other distractions. We would need to ask a moderator to set this up for us.

 

Now I will give you my thoughts -

 

This is what I see of your view on the Purpose of the Body of Christ on earth.

You have presented the `Dominionists` view of the Body of Christ`s purpose on earth. You have given different people`s thoughts & seem to believe what they say. In essence they believe that the Body of Christ has been told by the Lord to take dominion over the earth & to fix & change the world culture/system.

They see that the organised churches are retreating behind their walls & have bunkered down to wait for the Lord to rescue them. These writers say this is `pessimistic & defeatist, plus unscriptural. The church, they say should be completing the task of taking dominion over the earth, that Christ has entrusted to it.

Reply to your view.

 

The Body of Christ has not been told to take Dominion over the earth. We are not told to fix, influence, change the culture of the people`s. Even Israel was told this.

`Do not learn the way of the gentiles; ...For the customs of the peoples are futile;..` (Jer. 10: 2 & 3)

The whole world system is under the control of Satan. (1 John 5: 19)

The Political System – power & control (Matt. 20: 25 lording it over)
The Economic System – Greed, (James 5: 1 – 5)
The Religious System – form of godliness,(2 Tim. 3: 1 – 7).

Christ is going to judge this `evil world system of man,` as He has done in the past when evil has come to a head. If people get deceived into thinking they can change the world`s ways, influence it, then they will be driven by the `spirit of the age,` that believes man can do it. `We can do it together!` They will then end up partnering with the world & at enmity with God.

`Do you not know that friendship (partnership) with the world is enmity with God?` (James 4: 4)

This is my view on the Purpose of the Body of Christ on earth.

 

Down through the centuries, believers led by the Holy Spirit have cared & helped people in their daily life bringing them to know the Lord. Schools, hospitals, homes for the elderly, unwed mums, orphans, lepers, poor, etc etc etc have ALL been started by believers because they are obeying the head of the Body who cares for people. And God not only cares for people in their physical & emotional difficulties but He cared so much that He sent Jesus, His only son to die, so that people`s hearts could be changed.

 

No amount of changing the people`s culture or Political/Economic systems can change a heart. True believers have & always will be following their master into where the hurt & homeless are, into where the lost & lonely cry, into where the diseased & dying are. We need to trust the Head of the Body that He is in charge. We need to continue to humble ourselves, realising that we, we are not to expect to change the world but be part of influencing people to Christ.

 

The Dominionist view is prideful & will `drive` people to partner with the world, thinking they can change it.

 

The truth is that humbly we seek to be drawn to the Lord & thus be involved as He changes people`s lives.

 

Marilyn.
 

Edited July 4, 2015 by Marilyn C