People are basically good, right?

[Guest Wanda01]

On 8/20/2015 at 0:33 PM, missmuffet said:

Being "good" is not going to get you to heaven.

Amen!

[Unfailing Presence]

Every person knows that about themselves which they would dare not confess to their dearest friend or family member .

This is what we are "  basically " .

[Bonky]

I'm really not wanting to make this political but I can't ignore the obvious response that keeps bouncing around in my mind.  It seems to me that the Bible stresses how horrible sin is and those that follow the Bible nod in agreement.  I just don't see this play out in real life.   The last election season bore this out very plainly.   I didn't see many evangelicals saying "Oh gosh I can't stand Trump but I just can't bring myself to vote for Hillary".  I saw "YES!!  This guys is awesome!!  We're going to make America great again!".    We all know Trump is not exactly a model citizen when it comes to behavior.  The things that he's said and done are pretty low brow.

I listened to a podcast where Sam Harris was interviewing Scott Adams [Dilbert author] who is a Trump supporter.  Over the course of this discussion it was very clear that essentially Scott feels that "Yes, Trump has some serious warts, but he's going to be very handy getting some things done that his supporters want".  I have a friend who's been a Pastor for about 20 years, a very very dedicated Christian and he is not shy about supporting Trump.  So I think the Bible portrays this idea that even little sins, like being rude, is enough to burn all of humanity forever.  I think in reality, we know that there's a big difference between being a little rude and genocide.  

I wanted to add this to be clear.  I don't think anything horrible of Scott Adams or anyone who voted for Trump.  I just find it odd that someone can claim to care so much about sin but toss all that aside when they find someone who is powerful and useful.  

Edited July 24, 2017 by Bonky

[Guest Teditis]

Being "good" isn't about being rude or someone who commits genocide... these are "works" which can be good or bad.

But the "Good" that Christ talks about is in direct relation to our standing with God and how that stacks up to being

understood by God Himself.

We all fail at the social level and even mess up when trying to understand God's Will and what His Holy Spirit wants to

teach us... good and bad again.

The only "Good" thing that we can do is to submit to God and have the Blood of Christ cover our failings... both the good

ones and the bad ones, because none of them measure up to God's expectations.

Behaving well in public is just a thing that Christians are called to do, but often neglect... on the whole it would reflect better

on God if we were more obedient in that regard.

[Bonky]

I truly appreciate your input Ted, but the thread seemed to be talking about "works" and "sin", ie are humans generally "good" beings.  I didn't read the whole thread however so that may be part of the issue.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Bonky

[SkyWriting]

On 8/19/2015 at 6:07 PM, OldSchool2 said:

"People are basically good, right? It’s a truism drilled into us by any number of self-help books, magazines, talk-show hosts, and pop therapy. When, from time to time, people do terrible things to each other or themselves, we are assured that just the right combination of education, medication, and therapy could correct the ignorance, illness, or faulty social conditioning that led to the act. But do we really believe that to be true? Or do we recognize there is something more sinister at work in human nature?...

Both. People are created perfect, but being born without God as our mentor, we do use our freedom for evil.

Mold on bread is not just on the surface.

Edited November 10, 2017 by SkyWriting

[FresnoJoe]

13 hours ago, SkyWriting said:

Both. People are created perfect, but being born without God as our mentor, we do use our freedom for evil.

Mold on bread is not just on the surface.

Hyper

"The human mind is the most deceitful of all things. It is incurable. No one can understand how deceitful it is. Jeremiah 17:9 (GOD'S WORD® Translation)

Berean

He continued: “What comes out of a man, that is what defiles him. For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. All these evils come from within, and these are what defile a man.” Mark 17:20-23 (Berean Study Bible)

Without Jesus,

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, John 3:36a (New Heart English Bible)

We Are Sunk

but whoever refuses to believe in the Son won't see life, but the wrath of God remains on him." John 3:36b-c (New Heart English Bible)

~

Love, Your Brother Joe

[SkyWriting]

3 hours ago, FresnoJoe said:

He continued: “What comes out of a man, that is what defiles him. For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. All these evils come from within, and these are what defile a man.” Mark 17:20-23 (Berean Study Bible)

Yes, that what I said,  FresnoJoe.  Sin

Quote

defiles

that which is designed by God.

Isaiah 43:4 "Since you are precious in My sight, Since you are honored and I love you, I will give other men in your place and other peoples in exchange for your life.

Luke 6:45"The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.

 

de·file¹

dəˈfīl/

verb

 

1. sully, mar, or spoil.

   "the land was defiled by a previous owner"

   synonyms:

   spoil, sully, mar, impair, debase, degrade; More

   • desecrate or profane (something sacred).

     "the tomb had been defiled and looted"

     synonyms:

     desecrate, profane, violate; More
   • archaic

     violate the chastity of (a woman).

     synonyms:

     rape, violate;

     Matthew 12:35"The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil.
     Romans 15:14And concerning you, my brethren, I myself also am convinced that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge and able also to admonish one another.

     Galatians 5:22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

     Matthew 12:33"Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit.

     Matthew 13:27"The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'

     Matthew 13:38and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;

     Acts 11:24for he was a good man, and full of the Holy Spirit and of faith And considerable numbers were brought to the Lord.

Edited November 10, 2017 by SkyWriting

[FresnoJoe]

5 hours ago, FresnoJoe said:

Hyper

"The human mind is the most deceitful of all things. It is incurable. No one can understand how deceitful it is. Jeremiah 17:9 (GOD'S WORD® Translation)

Berean

He continued: “What comes out of a man, that is what defiles him. For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. All these evils come from within, and these are what defile a man.” Mark 17:20-23 (Berean Study Bible)

Without Jesus,

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, John 3:36a (New Heart English Bible)

We Are Sunk

but whoever refuses to believe in the Son won't see life, but the wrath of God remains on him." John 3:36b-c (New Heart English Bible)

~

Love, Your Brother Joe

 

2 hours ago, SkyWriting said:

Yes, that what I said,  FresnoJoe.  Sin

that which is designed by God.

Isaiah 43:4 "Since you are precious in My sight, Since you are honored and I love you, I will give other men in your place and other peoples in exchange for your life.

Luke 6:45"The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.

 

de·file¹

dəˈfīl/

verb

 

1. sully, mar, or spoil.

   "the land was defiled by a previous owner"

   synonyms:

   spoil, sully, mar, impair, debase, degrade; More

   • desecrate or profane (something sacred).

     "the tomb had been defiled and looted"

     synonyms:

     desecrate, profane, violate; More
   • archaic

     violate the chastity of (a woman).

     synonyms:

     rape, violate;

     Matthew 12:35"The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil.
     Romans 15:14And concerning you, my brethren, I myself also am convinced that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge and able also to admonish one another.

     Galatians 5:22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

     Matthew 12:33"Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit.

     Matthew 13:27"The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'

     Matthew 13:38and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;

     Acts 11:24for he was a good man, and full of the Holy Spirit and of faith And considerable numbers were brought to the Lord.

It Is Good

Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. Revelation 22:15 (English Standard Version)

To Call A Sin, Sin

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (Berean Study Bible)

Welcome Aboard The Truth Train

We know that the law is good when used correctly. For the law was not intended for people who do what is right. It is for people who are lawless and rebellious, who are ungodly and sinful, who consider nothing sacred and defile what is holy, who kill their father or mother or commit other murders. The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching that comes from the glorious Good News entrusted to me by our blessed God. 1 Timothy 1:8-11 (New Living Translation)

His Priceless Blood Frees The Hopeless Slave

"Come now, and let us reason together," says the LORD: "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow. Though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool. Isaiah 1:18 (New Heart English Bible)

From The Chains Of Sin

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. To him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Revelation 1:5 (American King James Version)

Jesus~!

For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:16 (World English Bible)

~

Love, Your Brother Joe

[FresnoJoe]

On 7/24/2017 at 11:43 AM, Bonky said:

I'm really not wanting to make this political but I can't ignore the obvious response that keeps bouncing around in my mind.  It seems to me that the Bible stresses how horrible sin is and those that follow the Bible nod in agreement.  I just don't see this play out in real life.   The last election season bore this out very plainly.   I didn't see many evangelicals saying "Oh gosh I can't stand Trump but I just can't bring myself to vote for Hillary".  I saw "YES!!  This guys is awesome!!  We're going to make America great again!".    We all know Trump is not exactly a model citizen when it comes to behavior.  The things that he's said and done are pretty low brow.

I listened to a podcast where Sam Harris was interviewing Scott Adams [Dilbert author] who is a Trump supporter.  Over the course of this discussion it was very clear that essentially Scott feels that "Yes, Trump has some serious warts, but he's going to be very handy getting some things done that his supporters want".  I have a friend who's been a Pastor for about 20 years, a very very dedicated Christian and he is not shy about supporting Trump.  So I think the Bible portrays this idea that even little sins, like being rude, is enough to burn all of humanity forever.  I think in reality, we know that there's a big difference between being a little rude and genocide.  

I wanted to add this to be clear.  I don't think anything horrible of Scott Adams or anyone who voted for Trump.  I just find it odd that someone can claim to care so much about sin but toss all that aside when they find someone who is powerful and useful.  

Brother, If You Think President Trump Is Awesome

However, if the watchman sees the sword coming but doesn't blow the trumpet, so that the people aren't warned, and the sword comes and takes away their lives, then they have been taken away because of their iniquity, but I will hold the watchman accountable for their blood." Ezekiel 33:6 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

You'll Love Sharia Law

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and shrewd in their own sight! Isaiah 5:20-21 (English Standard Version)

Vote DNC

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone. 2 Timothy 3:1-6 (New International Version)

Jesus answered them, "I can guarantee this truth: Whoever lives a sinful life is a slave to sin. A slave doesn't live in the home forever, but a son does. So if the Son sets you free, you will be absolutely free. John 8:34-36 (GOD'S WORD® Translation)

~

Love, Your Brother Joe