People are basically good, right?

[missmuffet]

I am not littleflower but...

 

This statement, “all have sinned,” is found in Romans 3:23 (“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”) and in the last clause of Romans 5:12 (“…because all sinned”). Basically, it means that we’re all lawbreakers, because sin is the violation of God’s law (1 John 3:40). Sinfulness is the general characteristic of all mankind; we are all guilty before God. We are sinners by nature and by our own acts of transgression.

 

[thereselittleflower]

My point is that with God, thanks to our sinful nature, we are inherently evil, because we are born in original sin. But thanks to be to God who gives us His forgiveness and life!  The wrong belief that people are basically good makes people think that the gospel is a bonus in life, not life that we need, which could not be farther from the truth.  Unless we abide in Him, of ourselves we can do nothing.  Bless God that we live in Him, and He in us!

I would say we are inherently wounded  so that our communion with God is lost.  That does not make us inherently evil.

 

 

This is 180 degrees out of line with the Word of God....

I disagree.

The words of Jesus:

Mat 5:45

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

 

 

Mat 12:35

A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

 

Luk 6:45

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

 

 

Rom 3:23
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
KJV
Is this good TLF and does it refer to all people?

I think we need to reconcile that with the words of Christ above.     Christ was talking about sinners when he said the sun rises on the evil and good alike.

 

 

 

 

[hmbld]

My point is that with God, thanks to our sinful nature, we are inherently evil, because we are born in original sin. But thanks to be to God who gives us His forgiveness and life!  The wrong belief that people are basically good makes people think that the gospel is a bonus in life, not life that we need, which could not be farther from the truth.  Unless we abide in Him, of ourselves we can do nothing.  Bless God that we live in Him, and He in us!

I would say we are inherently wounded  so that our communion with God is lost.  That does not make us inherently evil.

 

 

This is 180 degrees out of line with the Word of God....

I disagree.

The words of Jesus:

Mat 5:45

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

 

 

Mat 12:35

A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

 

Luk 6:45

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

 

 

Rom 3:23
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
KJV
Is this good TLF and does it refer to all people?

I think we need to reconcile that with the words of Christ above.     Christ was talking about sinners when he said the sun rises on the evil and good alike.

 

 

 

 

Since all have sinned, this would refer to all people.  

[thereselittleflower]

My point is that with God, thanks to our sinful nature, we are inherently evil, because we are born in original sin. But thanks to be to God who gives us His forgiveness and life!  The wrong belief that people are basically good makes people think that the gospel is a bonus in life, not life that we need, which could not be farther from the truth.  Unless we abide in Him, of ourselves we can do nothing.  Bless God that we live in Him, and He in us!

I would say we are inherently wounded  so that our communion with God is lost.  That does not make us inherently evil.

 

 

This is 180 degrees out of line with the Word of God....

I disagree.

The words of Jesus:

Mat 5:45

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

 

 

Mat 12:35

A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

 

Luk 6:45

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

 

 

Rom 3:23
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
KJV
Is this good TLF and does it refer to all people?

I think we need to reconcile that with the words of Christ above.     Christ was talking about sinners when he said the sun rises on the evil and good alike.

 

 

 

 

Since all have sinned, this would refer to all people.  

Some of whom Jesus referred to as good.

 

 

[hmbld]

My point is that with God, thanks to our sinful nature, we are inherently evil, because we are born in original sin. But thanks to be to God who gives us His forgiveness and life!  The wrong belief that people are basically good makes people think that the gospel is a bonus in life, not life that we need, which could not be farther from the truth.  Unless we abide in Him, of ourselves we can do nothing.  Bless God that we live in Him, and He in us!

I would say we are inherently wounded  so that our communion with God is lost.  That does not make us inherently evil.

 

 

This is 180 degrees out of line with the Word of God....

I disagree.

The words of Jesus:

Mat 5:45

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

 

 

Mat 12:35

A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

 

Luk 6:45

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

 

 

Rom 3:23
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
KJV
Is this good TLF and does it refer to all people?

I think we need to reconcile that with the words of Christ above.     Christ was talking about sinners when he said the sun rises on the evil and good alike.

 

 

 

 

Since all have sinned, this would refer to all people.  

Some of whom Jesus referred to as good.

 

 

I am well aware of the bible referencing the "good".  It is not negating the verses that tell us all have sinned.  To say we are "wounded" seems to imply we are victims, to which I say no, the bible teaches we are sinners, and if born again, the our only righteousness is in Christ, not ourselves.

[enoob57]

My point is that with God, thanks to our sinful nature, we are inherently evil, because we are born in original sin. But thanks to be to God who gives us His forgiveness and life!  The wrong belief that people are basically good makes people think that the gospel is a bonus in life, not life that we need, which could not be farther from the truth.  Unless we abide in Him, of ourselves we can do nothing.  Bless God that we live in Him, and He in us!

I would say we are inherently wounded  so that our communion with God is lost.  That does not make us inherently evil.

 

 

This is 180 degrees out of line with the Word of God....

I disagree.

The words of Jesus:

Mat 5:45

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

 

 

Mat 12:35

A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

 

Luk 6:45

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

 

 

Rom 3:23
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
KJV
Is this good TLF and does it refer to all people?

I think we need to reconcile that with the words of Christ above.     Christ was talking about sinners when he said the sun rises on the evil and good alike.
This is the answer
Mark 4:24-25
24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.
25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.
KJV
Luke 8:17-18
17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.
18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have
KJV

 

The Bible teaches that as long as we are here we will sin... we will >if His Children< repent leaving broken and contrite hearts and spirits
in wanting to return perfect love (obedience) but never the less failing on our own abilities and turning to His perfection within us as
resolve to continue the war between flesh and s/Spirit... it is a false teaching that tell people they can be perfect in their own effort
while in the flesh as John has plainly spoken
1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
KJV

 

 

Edited October 7, 2015 by enoob57

[Guest shiloh357]

No one is "basically good."   Man is basically evil. 

as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." "Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive." "The venom of asps is under their lips." "Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness." "Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known." "There is no fear of God before their eyes." (Rom 3:10-18)

That is God's assessment of men.   There is no goodness in man.  If a child is not taught values, they will grow up into an animal.  Children have to be taught not to lie, cheat, steal, bite, kick.  Otherwise, they are not fit for society.   Man left to himself is never good.  

God doesn't have a sliding scale when it comes to who is good.   God says that NONE of are good.  Even Jesus told the rich young ruler that only God is good.   To say that man is basically good is a statement of pride, not biblical truth.

[enoob57]

 

Some of whom Jesus referred to as good.

Jesus as good has obtained the right to produce good within us for eternal keeping ...
my righteousness is given me by Jesus and in Him alone my justification forever! 

[Guest shiloh357]

God doesn't redeem us because we are good.  He redeems us because HE is good.

[*Zion*]

My point is that WITHOUT God, thanks to our sinful nature, we are inherently evil, because we are born in original sin. But thanks to be to God who gives us His forgiveness and life!  The wrong belief that people are basically good makes people think that the gospel is a bonus in life, not life that we need, which could not be farther from the truth.  Unless we abide in Him, of ourselves we can do nothing.  Bless God that we live in Him, and He in us!

I would say we are inherently wounded  so that our communion with God is lost.  That does not make us inherently evil.

 

 

Not wounded, dead.  Sin is in and of itself evil. Evil is that which exalts itself against, seeks to defy or in rebellion unto God Most High.  

God bless you.

Edited October 7, 2015 by *Zion*