Pope: "Jesus' Cross was a Failure"

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Even the title of the thread is a lie.

How can it be a lie when it is a direct quote from Pope Francis? I have read the entire text, and he did stop with those very words...

But Francis started with "humanly speaking," i.e., in only human terms, the Crucifixion can be seen as the abrupt termination of Christ's earthly ministry.

And according to the AP stylebook, to quote out of context is to misquote, so the headline is at least misleading.

No one is quoting out of context.  To leave the "human understanding" of Jesus' cross as a failure in the minds of people, particularly the minds of the unregenerate crowd is wrong.   As a Christian, I would have said, "in human terms and by human reasoning, the cross of Jesus might look like a failure but it was the greatest victory in human history.  It was Jesus' victory over sin, death, and hell through HIs work on the cross.  It was God's victory over evil, over the devil, over the wickedness of our world."   I would have stressed that Jesus' death on the cross was God the Father's way of bringing man back into fellowship with himself...

I would have said the same, or something similar, but both of us have a good command of the English language. As for Francis, his native language is Spanish; he also speaks Italian, Portuguese, French, German, Ukrainian and Piedmontese.

Apparently the Pope doesn't actually understand English and was "speaking" it from a phonetically prepared text; I think he would have done a better job finishing that sentence in Spanish, but he would have required a translator at the altar.

This doesn't have anything to do with a command of the English language.  It has to do with sloppy theology.

[1to3]

Romans Chapter 10 Next >> Viewing the Standard King James Version. Switch to the 1611 KJV Romans Chapter 10 or view a Romans 10 parallel comparison.   1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.     4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.     5For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 6But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) 7Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;     9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.       12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.     14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!     16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.     18But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people

[thereselittleflower]

 

Even the title of the thread is a lie.

How can it be a lie when it is a direct quote from Pope Francis? I have read the entire text, and he did stop with those very words.  Why don't you go and double-check?  Any genuine Gospel preacher would NEVER stop with such a phrase.  Had the Pope said "In the eyes of the world the Cross was a failure but in the eyes of God and of Christ it was a supreme victory" it would have been totally acceptable.  But he did not say that.  In fact I can quote you his very words that he was preaching Universalism DECEPTIVELY since we both know that according to Catholic teaching there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.  It is time to open your eyes to the truth and not try and defend a system which is actually opposed to the Gospel.

The only thing that's not acceptable here is this behavior of continually misquoting the Catholic Church and people within it it, taking their words out of context and making it appear the Catholic Church and Catholics have said something they never said  IN CONTEXT.

 

[other one]

Pope Francis is the failure.

I would disagree with that......   he is far from a failure, he just has a much different agenda than most people understand......   he is very intelligent and is accomplishing his agenda very well.

[OakWood]

 

Even the title of the thread is a lie.

How can it be a lie when it is a direct quote from Pope Francis? I have read the entire text, and he did stop with those very words.  Why don't you go and double-check?  Any genuine Gospel preacher would NEVER stop with such a phrase.  Had the Pope said "In the eyes of the world the Cross was a failure but in the eyes of God and of Christ it was a supreme victory" it would have been totally acceptable.  But he did not say that.  In fact I can quote you his very words that he was preaching Universalism DECEPTIVELY since we both know that according to Catholic teaching there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.  It is time to open your eyes to the truth and not try and defend a system which is actually opposed to the Gospel.

The only thing that's not acceptable here is this behavior of continually misquoting the Catholic Church and people within it it, taking their words out of context and making it appear the Catholic Church and Catholics have said something they never said  IN CONTEXT.

 

Nobody is attacking the Catholic Church, just the Pope. And for the record, a number of devout Catholics believe him to be a false pope too.

[thereselittleflower]

 

Even the title of the thread is a lie.

How can it be a lie when it is a direct quote from Pope Francis? I have read the entire text, and he did stop with those very words.  Why don't you go and double-check?  Any genuine Gospel preacher would NEVER stop with such a phrase.  Had the Pope said "In the eyes of the world the Cross was a failure but in the eyes of God and of Christ it was a supreme victory" it would have been totally acceptable.  But he did not say that.  In fact I can quote you his very words that he was preaching Universalism DECEPTIVELY since we both know that according to Catholic teaching there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.  It is time to open your eyes to the truth and not try and defend a system which is actually opposed to the Gospel.

The only thing that's not acceptable here is this behavior of continually misquoting the Catholic Church and people within it it, taking their words out of context and making it appear the Catholic Church and Catholics have said something they never said  IN CONTEXT.

 

Nobody is attacking the Catholic Church, just the Pope. And for the record, a number of devout Catholics believe him to be a false pope too.

It's all part and parcel of the same thing - the same tactics are used regardless of whether it is a personage within the Catholic Church or the Cathlic Church itself.

It's one thing to have an honest disagreement with the Pope.  It is quite another to present lies to base that disagreement on and launch an attack from.   

 

 

Edited September 29, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

Pope Francis is the failure.

 

I would disagree with that......   he is far from a failure, he just has a much different agenda than most people understand......   he is very intelligent and is accomplishing his agenda very well.

What do you believe is his agenda other one ? ( or is that another topic ) ?

[other one]

 

Even the title of the thread is a lie.

How can it be a lie when it is a direct quote from Pope Francis? I have read the entire text, and he did stop with those very words.  Why don't you go and double-check?  Any genuine Gospel preacher would NEVER stop with such a phrase.  Had the Pope said "In the eyes of the world the Cross was a failure but in the eyes of God and of Christ it was a supreme victory" it would have been totally acceptable.  But he did not say that.  In fact I can quote you his very words that he was preaching Universalism DECEPTIVELY since we both know that according to Catholic teaching there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.  It is time to open your eyes to the truth and not try and defend a system which is actually opposed to the Gospel.

The only thing that's not acceptable here is this behavior of continually misquoting the Catholic Church and people within it it, taking their words out of context and making it appear the Catholic Church and Catholics have said something they never said  IN CONTEXT.

 

Nobody is attacking the Catholic Church, just the Pope. And for the record, a number of devout Catholics believe him to be a false pope too.

If you read Tom Horn's book "Exo-Vaticana"  you will find that there is a group of Catholics that believe this pope is the last and is setting up for the false prophet or is so himself.   According to several Catholic prophecies combined he is the last pope and very shortly the Vatican and those in it will be destroyed......   and the Antichrist will arise to power.   Not long ago the pope made an odd statement that it was ok with him if he should be assassinated, he just hoped it didn't hurt much.....    He's speaking of visions an earlier pope had concerning this time period.

Edited September 29, 2015 by other one

[OakWood]

 

Even the title of the thread is a lie.

How can it be a lie when it is a direct quote from Pope Francis? I have read the entire text, and he did stop with those very words.  Why don't you go and double-check?  Any genuine Gospel preacher would NEVER stop with such a phrase.  Had the Pope said "In the eyes of the world the Cross was a failure but in the eyes of God and of Christ it was a supreme victory" it would have been totally acceptable.  But he did not say that.  In fact I can quote you his very words that he was preaching Universalism DECEPTIVELY since we both know that according to Catholic teaching there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.  It is time to open your eyes to the truth and not try and defend a system which is actually opposed to the Gospel.

The only thing that's not acceptable here is this behavior of continually misquoting the Catholic Church and people within it it, taking their words out of context and making it appear the Catholic Church and Catholics have said something they never said  IN CONTEXT.

 

Nobody is attacking the Catholic Church, just the Pope. And for the record, a number of devout Catholics believe him to be a false pope too.

It's all part and parcel of the same thing - the same tactics are used regardless of whether it is a personage within the Catholic Church or the Cathlic Church itself.

It's one thing to have an honest disagreement with the Pope.  It is quite another to present lies to base that disagreement on and launch an attack from.   

 

 

I'm not going to attack the Catholic Church or Catholics in any shape or form, I am just merely going to say that I believe that Francis is spreading a false gospel. I have a friend who is Catholic chaplain, she is devout Catholic and is well-versed in Catholic dogma. She also believes that Francis is a usurper.

But let's not care about what I believe or anybody else believes. Let's examine what Francis actually says and does. He has said some very unscriptural things recently.

Also, ask yourself the question. Why did the last Pope resign? That's almost unheard of - chosen by God to be Pope for life and he steps down? What or who got to him? He was the last true Pope.

 

[Ezra]

We are being told that the Pope is being misrepresented and his words taken out of context.  Here are the words in context:

Following is the English translation of Pope Francis’ homily during vespers at St. Patrick’s Cathedral on Wednesday evening. His speech, delivered in Spanish, was prepared for delivery and released by the Vatican: [New York Times]

"We can get caught up measuring the value of our apostolic works by the standards of efficiency, good management and outward success which govern the business world. Not that these things are unimportant! We have been entrusted with a great responsibility, and God’s people rightly expect accountability from us. But the true worth of our apostolate is measured by the value it has in God’s eyes. To see and evaluate things from God’s perspective calls for constant conversion in the first days and years of our vocation and, need I say, great humility. The cross shows us a different way of measuring success. Ours is to plant the seeds: God sees to the fruits of our labors. And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus… and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross..."

NOTHING MORE REGARDING THE FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST AND HIS VICTORY ON THE CROSS FOLLOWED BY HIS GLORIOUS RESURRECTION.

No true Gospel preacher would leave the matter hanging there.  Since he mentioned "God's perspective" he could also have given God's perspective regarding the Cross. These visits are being represented as "apostolic" so we do have a false apostle traveling around with a false Gospel.