The Last Trumpet

[wingnut-]

On 3/13/2018 at 5:14 PM, Da Puppers said:

Do you think nobody died while Jesus lived upon earth during his ministry?

 

Of course people died during His time on earth, not sure what this has to do with anything.  Are you aware that not everyone on the planet got to hear Him speak during His ministry?  Nor did all those who lived before He came?

 

On 3/13/2018 at 5:14 PM, Da Puppers said:

It does not say this was a great mass of people,  which is what you have if this was based on him going to the realm of the dead and proclaiming victory.

 

Matthew 27:52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

 

Many means just that.  There shouldn't be any speculation as to the number, not according to scripture.

 

Romans 2:9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek.  11 For God shows no partiality.

 

Interesting that it says the Jew first don't you think?  How does that reconcile with your position?

 

On 3/13/2018 at 5:14 PM, Da Puppers said:

Rev. 11 bears witness to the prophets and saints still awaiting their judgment.

 

No, it most certainly does not.

 

Revelation 11:18 The nations raged,
    but your wrath came,
    and the time for the dead to be judged,
and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints,
    and those who fear your name,
    both small and great,
and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.”

 

What Revelation 11 bears witness to is the dead (unbelievers) being judged, and the prophets and saints being rewarded.

 

On 3/13/2018 at 5:14 PM, Da Puppers said:

Hearing the gospel while dead?

 

Yes, that is precisely what is written.  Jesus in Spirit, proclaiming to spirits, including those from an era thousands of years prior.

 

On 3/13/2018 at 5:14 PM, Da Puppers said:

I never said nor believed that these people didn't believe in Jesus. 

 

Does that mean your position is, that people who lived up to many thousands of years before Jesus came, believed in His life, death, and resurrection?  Exactly how do you reconcile that to the fact that the expectation of the Jewish people was not for the Messiah to die, but to come as a conqueror?  They expected a Messiah (the Jews did anyway, but of course they weren't the only people on the planet), but they did not know or understand the gospel message at all.  As a reminder, this is what we are told in scripture.

 

I Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,

 

On 3/13/2018 at 5:14 PM, Da Puppers said:

 I just showed how the scriptures agreed with what is there, identifying them in scriptures [paradise, death, hell, perdition].

 

No, I asked you to, but never received the response to this inquiry.  I'm still waiting for the scriptures that support your claim and show these four compartments.

 

On 3/13/2018 at 5:14 PM, Da Puppers said:

If someone gave you a vision of the afterlife,  would you believe them?  Hopefully you would compare it with scripture.   That's what i did and found no contradiction.

 

You haven't offered any scripture to compare it with yet.  No offense, but I am not taking anyone's word about any "visions".

 

Matthew 24:24  For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

 

On 3/13/2018 at 5:14 PM, Da Puppers said:

As far as "death and hell" and the 4th beast goes.  This is just a reiterating of how the harvest takes shape. 

 

There is no fourth beast, this is the fourth horseman.  And scripture tells us the harvest is the end of the age, the fourth horseman is the fourth seal, a bit premature for the end of the age, don't you think?

God bless

[Diaste]

It would be my position that Paul would have known all about the 7th trump as the last trump. 

Paul is speaking of the end of the age when the gathering takes place. In the comprehensive study of the end of the age, Revelation, there are 7 trumps, with the 7 sounded in order, the 7th as the last.

Paul would have had ample opportunity to learn this either during the meeting with Jesus, or in the times he heard from the Lord after this, or when he took instruction from the apostles, as recorded in scripture, or all of the above.

Anyway, I don't see an 8th trump.

[JoeChan82]

14 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Paul would have had ample opportunity to learn this either during the meeting with Jesus, or in the times he heard from the Lord after this, or when he took instruction from the apostles, as recorded in scripture, or all of the above.

Good point. In fact Paul said  1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Paul not only met personally with Jesus, but also had access to at least Luke's gospel, as well as Galatians 2:1-2 ¶ Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

[Diaste]

On 10/20/2015 at 9:12 PM, Ezra said:

Since God does not blow trumpets, but the angels do (and men do also), "the trump of God" simply means a trumpet sound authorized by God for a specific purpose.  It could well have a connection with the OT, but it certainly has no connection with trumpet judgments.  I would take "last trumpet" to mean the last trumpet sound that any saint of God will hear.

I agree.

Really looking at, "15 And the seventh angel sounded;", this moment is all about our Father, OF God;

"The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." 

The earth now becomes the kingdom OF the Lord and OF his Christ. People will likely have their things in this coming world, economies and such perhaps and yet all that is of God.

16 "And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,"

Clearly all about our Father. 

17 "Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned."

The worship OF God for the mighy works OF God, the eternal nature, the power, the authority, all of God.

18 "And the nations were angry,and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

Judgement and reward all all OF God as well. Judgment and reward are given to others but all that comes from the Lord and the concept and manifestation of judgment and reward of the eternal Father is OF him.

So the trumpet; OF God. 

[Diaste]

4 hours ago, JoeChan82 said:

Good point. In fact Paul said  1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Paul not only met personally with Jesus, but also had access to at least Luke's gospel, as well as Galatians 2:1-2 ¶ Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

Indeed. I have heard many times that Paul could not have known this or that about the end of the age. I find it a bit limiting when the eternal, omniscient God is involved. Jesus knew in the gospels, told the apostles, Paul knew.

A good point. The only way Paul could have written 1 Thess is through info from the source. The gathering at the end of the age was not mentioned in the OT, to my knowledge