Confirming the Covenant

[WilliamL]

9:27 And he will have caused to make strong/to prevail/to confirm [a] covenant for many one week [of years].     [“…he will have caused”: 3 masc. sing. Hiphil Perfect.

This was Vespasian’s policy, which he established from the beginning of the war: for those Jews who would continue to submit to Rome’s civil authority, Rome would continue to maintain the peace and permit the Jews to allow only YHWH-worship in the land. But any place in the land that harbored rebellion against Rome, including Jerusalem and Temple, would be desolated.

Flavius Josephus, The Jewish War, Preface 8: “[Vespasian] took…some of its [Galilee’s] cities by treaties, and on terms.”  III:ii:4: “…the inhabitants of Sepphoris…the largest city of Galilee…received Vespasian, the Roman general, very kindly, and readily promised that they would assist him…”  III:ix:8: “Now the seniors of the people [of Tiberius]…fell down before Vespasian, to supplicate his favor… Vespasian…accepted of their rights hands by way of security…[and] the citizens opened to him their gates…”]

The Jewish War lasted 7 years, 66-73 A.D. This prophecy has been fulfilled.

So when did Israel and the holy city of Jerusalem fulfill the six tasks given to them in Daniel 9:24.  Seventy sevens are decreed for your people and your holy city to do: Tasks 1 to 6.  If Israel has not accomplished these tasks, the 70th Week is not finished, and if not finished, it has not started.  This all completed, 70th Week, around 70 AD is totally false.

The 70 - sevens prophecy is for Daniels people and Daniels holy city to perform.  No one else.  Read the prophecy word for word Daniel 9:24.  And tell me who besides Israel and Jerusalem are to fulfill the six tasks.  If this prophecy cannot be fulfilled as written, you have a God problem.  Only two are mentioned to do the fulfilling.

 

Dan. 9:24 Seventy weeks have been determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city...

"have been determined": Hebrew root chathak; tense, Niphil Perfect (completed action): have been determined/ decreed/ settled/ marked out

You read the prophecy, Marv: there is nothing there that says "Israel and Jerusalem are to fulfill the six tasks." What it says is that the six tasks have been determined/decreed to come upon them.

You have an understanding problem, presumably because you are reading into the passage your predetermined conclusion, not what the passage literally says.
 

[WilliamL]

...Jesus spent ~3.5 years confirming this covenant spoken of by Jeremiah...

This is a myth of churchianity, unsupported by scripture.

Jesus began his public ministry on a Passover, when he cleansed the Temple for the first time. John 2:13ff. (The miracle at the wedding at Cana came shortly before this, but didn't really constitute a public announcement of his ministry.) He then preached the Gospel in Judea, (John 3:22-4:3) until late in that year; then went up to Galilee. Matthew, Mark, and Luke all tell the story of his Galilean ministry, and tell nothing about his Judean ministry.

At the next Passover, which occurred shortly after John the Baptist was beheaded, Jesus fed the 5,000 in the wilderness: the only part of his Galilean ministry told by all four Gospels.

At the next and final Passover of his ministry, he cleansed the Temple for the second time, and subsequently was crucified.

Three Passovers, two years of ministry: (most of) one year in Judea, and the second year in Galilee. No real evidence at all for anything longer.

[Montana Marv]

William

70 Sevens are decreed for your people and your holy city to: 1. finish transgression; 2.  put an end to sin;  3.  to bring in everlasting righteousness; 4.  to atone for wickedness; 5.  to seal up visions and prophecy; 6.  to anoint the most holy.

What are Israel and Jerusalem to do???  If these have not been completed as prophesied, the Prophecy has not been fulfilled.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[WilliamL]

never ever seen it yet how the last week could be broken from the 69 weeks and not be connected

The Jews were given the the standard probation period of 40 years to accept the Gospel. After the 40 years were fulfilled, the Jewish War commenced. Those Jews who had accepted the Gospel fled across Jordan to Pella, and those who rebelled against God and Rome were destroyed or carried off as slaves. This is the reason there was a gap between the cutting off of the Messiah, at the end of the 69th week,  and the 70th week.

[Watching for Jesus]

...Jesus spent ~3.5 years confirming this covenant spoken of by Jeremiah...

This is a myth of churchianity, unsupported by scripture.

Jesus began his public ministry on a Passover, when he cleansed the Temple for the first time. John 2:13ff. (The miracle at the wedding at Cana came shortly before this, but didn't really constitute a public announcement of his ministry.) He then preached the Gospel in Judea, (John 3:22-4:3) until late in that year; then went up to Galilee. Matthew, Mark, and Luke all tell the story of his Galilean ministry, and tell nothing about his Judean ministry.

At the next Passover, which occurred shortly after John the Baptist was beheaded, Jesus fed the 5,000 in the wilderness: the only part of his Galilean ministry told by all four Gospels.

At the next and final Passover of his ministry, he cleansed the Temple for the second time, and subsequently was crucified.

Three Passovers, two years of ministry: (most of) one year in Judea, and the second year in Galilee. No real evidence at all for anything longer.

I agree with you on this William.  As I see it, Jesus was baptised around the late summer or early fall just before his 30th birthday.

Luke 3:21.  Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
 22.  And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
 23.  And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age,

The 40 days of testing followed his baptism.  The events of John, Chapter 1 & 2 occurred in the following spring around Passover.  If you follow the rest of John, as you said, there are only 2 more Passovers.  I see the total time from Jesus' baptism until the crucifixion is only 2 1/2 years.

 

[WilliamL]

I agree with you on this William.  As I see it, Jesus was baptised around the late summer or early fall just before his 30th birthday.

Luke 3:21.  Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized ... Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age,

The 40 days of testing followed his baptism.  The events of John, Chapter 1 & 2 occurred in the following spring around Passover.  If you follow the rest of John, as you said, there are only 2 more Passovers.  I see the total time from Jesus' baptism until the crucifixion is only 2 1/2 years.

I agree that Jesus was born in the Autumn. (On Rosh Hashanah of 7 B.C. to be precise, which took place on the Autumn Equinox. But that is another story...)

My take is that the baptism occurred some months later, but there is no concrete evidence for the actual time. Luke's chronologies are  often suspect, because he contradicts the other Gospels in a number of instances. Therefore, I don't put a whole lot of stock in the "began to be about 30 years of age." Priests were to be 30 years old before they were allowed "to do the work in the tabernacle of the congregation." Num. 4:3, 23 etc. Therefore, I believe Jesus would not have been baptized and anointed with the Holy Spirit until after attaining his 30th birthday. But we digress from this string's topic... Apologies to Last Daze.

Edited November 1, 2015 by WilliamL

[WilliamL]

70 Sevens are decreed for your people and your holy city to: 1. finish transgression; 2.  put an end to sin;  3.  to bring in everlasting righteousness; 4.  to atone for wickedness; 5.  to seal up visions and prophecy; 6.  to anoint the most holy.

The Hebrew is clear "al-amek v-al-eer." (This program did not accept the Hebrew script.)

H5921  `al  al: above, over, upon, or against (yet always in this last relation with a downward aspect).

Literally, "upon thy people and upon thy city"; not for.

You are changing the meaning of the text to fit your conclusion; not basing your conclusion upon the literal meaning of the text.

[Montana Marv]

70 Sevens are decreed for your people and your holy city to: 1. finish transgression; 2.  put an end to sin;  3.  to bring in everlasting righteousness; 4.  to atone for wickedness; 5.  to seal up visions and prophecy; 6.  to anoint the most holy.

The Hebrew is clear "al-amek v-al-eer." (This program did not accept the Hebrew script.)

H5921  `al  al: above, over, upon, or against (yet always in this last relation with a downward aspect).

Literally, "upon thy people and upon thy city"; not for.

You are changing the meaning of the text to fit your conclusion; not basing your conclusion upon the literal meaning of the text.

William

It is still the same;  What are they To Do.  70 Sevens are decreed upon them, It is up to them to accomplish the 6 tasks.  or 70 Sevens are decreed for them to do the six tasks given to them.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[MorningGlory]

 

What I don't see is a future seven year period of time where the man of sin confirms a covenant with Israel for seven years.  Never is there mentioned a seven year period of time in the context of end times prophecy, nor are we ever instructed to look for one as a sign.

 The false prophet will have power for 3 1/2 years. This will start when he takes over Jerusalem.  But before this, he must rise to power and gain popularity.  He will win everyone over with his smooth words and miracles to deceive.  It will take just under 3 1/2 years to win all the nations over spreading false peace and introducting his new policies.

Actually, it's the AntiChrist who will rise to power; the False Prophet is just his enabler. 

[Last Daze]

...Jesus spent ~3.5 years confirming this covenant spoken of by Jeremiah...

This is a myth of churchianity, unsupported by scripture.

Jesus began his public ministry on a Passover, when he cleansed the Temple for the first time. John 2:13ff. (The miracle at the wedding at Cana came shortly before this, but didn't really constitute a public announcement of his ministry.) He then preached the Gospel in Judea, (John 3:22-4:3) until late in that year; then went up to Galilee. Matthew, Mark, and Luke all tell the story of his Galilean ministry, and tell nothing about his Judean ministry.

At the next Passover, which occurred shortly after John the Baptist was beheaded, Jesus fed the 5,000 in the wilderness: the only part of his Galilean ministry told by all four Gospels.

At the next and final Passover of his ministry, he cleansed the Temple for the second time, and subsequently was crucified.

Three Passovers, two years of ministry: (most of) one year in Judea, and the second year in Galilee. No real evidence at all for anything longer.

 

I agree with you on this William.  As I see it, Jesus was baptised around the late summer or early fall just before his 30th birthday.

Luke 3:21.  Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
 22.  And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
 23.  And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age,

The 40 days of testing followed his baptism.  The events of John, Chapter 1 & 2 occurred in the following spring around Passover.  If you follow the rest of John, as you said, there are only 2 more Passovers.  I see the total time from Jesus' baptism until the crucifixion is only 2 1/2 years.

 

Maybe this is true.  Maybe it's not.  What's more relevant to me is:

• Who confirms the covenant for seven years?
• Which covenant does he confirm?