The powerless gospel of Calvinism

[Omegaman 3.0]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

That would indeed be rather strange, would it not? Does that mean that grace and capriciousness can coexist?

I do not know what it means, I do not question why God does what He does, I just read it and accept  it.

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I do not know what it means, I do not question why God does what He does, I just read it and accept  it.

Well, the way to accept it is to simply believe that while salvation is offered freely to all, only those who repent and believe will be saved. God does NOT choose some for Heaven and others for Hell.

[Qnts2]

Omegamon, are you a supralapasrian?

[Omegaman 3.0]

1 hour ago, Qnts2 said:

Omegamon, are you a supralapasrian?

I had to look that one up, and if I understand if correctly, no, I am not one of those, lol.

[Omegaman 3.0]

2 hours ago, Ezra said:

Well, the way to accept it is to simply believe that while salvation is offered freely to all, only those who repent and believe will be saved. God does NOT choose some for Heaven and others for Hell.

All well and good, but I am not sure how one 'simply believes'. Suppose I were to tell you, that all bananas are bright pink, just simply believe it, could you do that?

What I actually believe, is that God chose some in eternity, to which He would draw to Himself, open their hearts to have faith, and grant them repentance and salvation. In Other words

Election, revelation, faith, then repentance/sanctification/salvation, though those last three are past, resent and future, so not really sequential. An, since I think that God being in eternity, apart from the existence of time (time being part of creation), I do not feel it is quite accurate to technically think of election as before, but really separate from, anything man does in the 'process', since man is temporal, not eternal. We may join Him in eternity, but we will never share an eternal nature, will will always remain created beings. 

Maybe tomorrow, my understanding will be different, but today it is 'God elected some', and did not tell us why, or if there even is a why. My part, is to tell others the gospel, in obedience to Jesus' command, and since Paul says they need to here, I just see that as God allowing me to participate in a small way, with His plan for the His elect. I suppose in that sense, I might even be predestined to do that of exist in God's foreknowledge in that way.

However, just for some self disclosure, I do not hold that the word 'foreknowledge' is limited to knowing things in advance.

[enoob57]

2 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

All well and good, but I am not sure how one 'simply believes'. Suppose I were to tell you, that all bananas are bright pink, just simply believe it, could you do that?

What I actually believe, is that God chose some in eternity, to which He would draw to Himself, open their hearts to have faith, and grant them repentance and salvation. In Other words

Election, revelation, faith, then repentance/sanctification/salvation, though those last three are past, resent and future, so not really sequential. An, since I think that God being in eternity, apart from the existence of time (time being part of creation), I do not feel it is quite accurate to technically think of election as before, but really separate from, anything man does in the 'process', since man is temporal, not eternal. We may join Him in eternity, but we will never share an eternal nature, will will always remain created beings. 

Maybe tomorrow, my understanding will be different, but today it is 'God elected some', and did not tell us why, or if there even is a why. My part, is to tell others the gospel, in obedience to Jesus' command, and since Paul says they need to here, I just see that as God allowing me to participate in a small way, with His plan for the His elect. I suppose in that sense, I might even be predestined to do that of exist in God's foreknowledge in that way.

However, just for some self disclosure, I do not hold that the word 'foreknowledge' is limited to knowing things in advance.

If you wish to stand solely upon God's Word you stand on foreknowledge undefined by God In His Word... 

[Omegaman 3.0]

We enoob, the thing is, there are examples of how the word knowledge is used in the bible, and it is not always about intellectual awareness. Instructing me yo stick to defined words is a bit disengenuous I think, I would bet there are plenty of words that are 'undefined' that you base theories on you assumed understanding, and other terms that do ot even exist in the Bible.

If you think that foreknowledge is not defined, then I suppose you cannot know what it means either, if you do not know what it means, you also do not know what it does not means. To assume it means to know something beforehand, becomes your assumption, that door swings both ways.

To avoid  having to elaborate to much on the possible alternative aspects of foreknowledge and related and or infered significances, I will just refer people to one of Bo's favorite sources, this time as an audio file, for any who care to listen:

http://www.gotquestions.org/audio/predestination-foreknowledge.mp3 

or if that doesn't work, you can experience it on the original page at http://www.gotquestions.org/predestination-foreknowledge.html

However, I do recommend listeneing, not just reading, bacuase ate least for me, I found it a little easier to follow the train of thought, listening to it, though usually I am more prone to the written word, nor reason one cannot do both, use one to re-enforce the other.

 

[hmbld]

mega, that makes it sound like God does not desire "all" as only some are chosen. Do you believe in free will?

[enoob57]

5 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

We enoob, the thing is, there are examples of how the word knowledge is used in the bible, and it is not always about intellectual awareness. Instructing me yo stick to defined words is a bit disengenuous I think, I would bet there are plenty of words that are 'undefined' that you base theories on you assumed understanding, and other terms that do ot even exist in the Bible.

If you think that foreknowledge is not defined, then I suppose you cannot know what it means either, if you do not know what it means, you also do not know what it does not means. To assume it means to know something beforehand, becomes your assumption, that door swings both ways.
this is exactly what I have said many times and different ways to you ('we are to wait here and go no further') it is an obedience I have said....

To avoid  having to elaborate to much on the possible alternative aspects of foreknowledge and related and or infered significances, I will just refer people to one of Bo's favorite sources, this time as an audio file, for any who care to listen:

http://www.gotquestions.org/audio/predestination-foreknowledge.mp3 

or if that doesn't work, you can experience it on the original page at http://www.gotquestions.org/predestination-foreknowledge.html

However, I do recommend listeneing, not just reading, bacuase ate least for me, I found it a little easier to follow the train of thought, listening to it, though usually I am more prone to the written word, nor reason one cannot do both, use one to re-enforce the other. do you really feel in the power of your own reason you cannot be seduced by satan?

God writes it this way:

Isa 1:18
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
KJV

The reason is given by God and we are to bring it into us as reason for ourselves (no more no less)... waiting upon God is essential ( ! )
When we continue to form reason outside of The Word's permission ... we invite thus I think instead of thus sayeth The Lord. It is not complicated
it is obedience to The Scriptures.... God has said choose! God's messengers have said choose... God has said He has chosen based on the first
primary element of foreknowledge undefined- this is where we are to stand for this is all the Word gives us! 

 

All areas of explaining foreknowledge in their dialogue is from man reasoning and not thus saith The Lord ( ! )
As I listened to this it was quite evident to me they had in their own reason bridged gaps with their own reason...
Yet God has said choose - this would be misleading- if this were not possible by God's already chosen. You have,
as all Calvinist, placed misdirection in the simple, plain meaning of Scripture with other! A violation of the very
first hermeneutical principle of the science of interpretation- if the plain sense makes sense seek no other sense...
Love, Steven

[Ezra]

15 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

All well and good, but I am not sure how one 'simply believes'. 

Here is how someone simply believes, and it is God who reveals this to us, so that should settle the matter:

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.