And Science Says Our Gap Theory Is Bad...

[FresnoJoe]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2015 at 11:06 PM, other one said:

I have an IQ of about 154 and have read the Bible probably a hundred times.....    and I have fit what I have read in my real world experiences to come to the conclusion that the gap theory is the only thing that makes sense in the real world.....  

So please don't ask me to put my total faith in the Bible as to reading literal every word when I have about 20 that don't say the same things....   actually none of them say the exact same things.

~

Beloved

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6

It Is The Holy Bible That Puts Faith

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

Into The Bible Reader

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Hebrews 11:1-3

And

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

Not The Skeptic

And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. Isaiah 29:11-12

Who Will Not Believe Even While Reading It

Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: Isaiah 29:13

And As For Those High I.Q.'s

Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity. Isaiah 40:21-23

No Contest

Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:6-9

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Ezra]

On 25/12/2015 at 8:42 PM, other one said:

I didn't say that he didn't create the angels.....   I'm saying that it was not part of the six days.    I believe along with a not small number of learned people that the earth is much older than 6,000 years.    if you do not, I don't have a problem with that.  But I do have a problem with a 6,000 year old earth....

If anything was created outside of those six days, then that would contradict the Ten Commandment, where it is specifically stated that "heaven and earth, the sea. and ALL that in them is" were created in those six days (Exod 20:11).  Since the angels are (and were) in Heaven, that is pretty conclusive.

[hmbld]

5 minutes ago, Butero said:

The same God you are referring to told Peter that before the cock crows three times, he would deny him thrice.  How could he know that if he doesn't know what a free moral agent would do.  The Old Testament specifically tells us how Judas Iscariot would betray Jesus for thirty pieces of silver.  How is that possible if God doesn't know what a free moral agent will do?  The Bible indicates God sees a sparrow when it falls, yet according to you, he couldn't see if Sodom and Gomorrah were as wicked as he had heard, so he had to go there to find out if it was true???   That is the most absurd nonsense I have ever heard. 

God knew what Abraham would do in advance.  He just wanted Abraham to act it out for his creation to see.  God does create some to be destroyed.  He certainly did with Judas Iscariot.  He did with Pharaoh.  Yes, he did know Lucifer would fall.  No, this does not make God out a liar.  God know everything, but he lets us play everything out for the benefit of his creation.  They are witnesses to our actions, but nothing takes God by surprise, and I mean nothing.  Even if I use your logic, and selective examples, how do you explain away the examples I can give you where God specifically tells what someone will do, and I mean a free moral agent as you call them? 

If a man writes a novel, why does he create bad characters?  They are necessary to bring about the plot.  Many are created only to be destroyed, and we cheerfully watch them being destroyed.  They are bad people, so we are happy when they are killed off.  God created hell didn't he?  He knew people would spend eternity there didn't he, even if it was created for the devil and his angels?  We are playing by God's rules.  He isn't obligated to send anyone to suffer for eternity, but he does.  I know the usual line about how God didn't send them there, they went on their own, but that is nonsense.  Nobody wants to spend eternity in hell, and some are deceived.  They don't know they aren't saved.  Look at the multitude God turns away that claim they did all kinds of great works in his name, but he tell them he never knew them.  I know exactly what I am saying, I started a thread in doctrine on this topic, and I believe I have a mountain of evidence to prove my claims. 

God is not limited to His creation, even time, so yes God does know all of the future, not just by guessing.  As for the bad characters, I believe by giving free choice, it is not God who chooses to send people to hell for eternity, for His will is for all to be saved.  God is Holy, He can not deny Himself.  What you say is nonsense, is not taking into account God's character, His Holiness. 

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎07‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 10:48 PM, HAZARD said:

Who knows when or what period of time, "IN THE BEGINNING" was?

 

In Genesis it says, Genesis 1;1, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

 

It does not say, 6'000 years ago God created the heaven and the earth.

 

John 1;1 also states, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

 

It does not say, Six thousand years ago was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, six thousand years ago?

 

The next two verses also do not mention any time period or time when things were created.

 

John 1: 2, The same was in the beginning with God.
   

John 1; 3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

God and the Word, before he became flesh and dwelt among us are ETERNAL beings. Sure as God the Word had no beginning but as a Man, He had a beginning.

 

John 1;14; "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

 

It is interesting to note that astronomers have discovered planets about 150,000,000 light years from the Earth. This is about 14,690,062,800,000,000,000 miles from the Earth, or a distance light can travel in 150,000,000 years at a speed of 186,000 miles per second. Astronomers also say there are other universes even beyond this one. They say about 6,000,000,000 stars have been discovered and they are all suns to other planets. If this is true then the universe is beyond human conception.

 

It is hard to conceive that God has existed from all eternity past as a lazy being, not doing anything until a few millennium ago, when He finally decided to do something.

 

It is easier to conceive that God has been making things in all the eternal past. Jesus Himself said;

 

 John 5:17, "But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."

And they will continue to work through eternity future, and we will be included in their work!

 

I ask you, is the universe, many parts of it that are not in rebellion, in sin against God inhabited,? I believe so because of this simple Scripture;

 

Revelation 12:12, "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them . . . . . . Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." yes, his time will shortly and positively and securely cut off!

 

The Bible says the heavens cannot be measured and the host of Heaven cannot be counted (Jer. 31:37 ; 33:22-25). It is also clear that the spirit world of angels, seraphims, cherubims, and other spirit beings were created before the Earth, for the "sons of God," (angels), were present and shouting when God laid the foundations of the Earth. It is also clear from this passage that God created the heavens, including the moon, the sun and stars were created before the Earth, for "the morning stars" sang together when God laid the foundations of the Earth. This would be the logical order of creation, to make theplace before creating the inhabitants to live in or on the place.

Since inhabitants were a part of the creation and not part of Creators (Col. 1:15-18), they naturally would have to be created on which they were to live. This is the way it happened on Earth in the six days of the restoration of the Earth from chaos to a second habitable state (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

 

Bearing all this in mind, we either believe our God can and did create everything which included the molecules of the universe, from the basic atomic particles to the subatomic particles, and even particles we know nothing about yet in His creation we see and live in today!

 

In a nutshell and put simply;

“In the beginning" [literally by periods or ages] God created the heaven, [Hebrew, heavens] and the earth, not 6000years ago God created the Heaven and the earth.
When we speak of the six days and the creation of the present life on Earth, we can speak with Bible authority that it was about 6000 years ago. This can be seen by the lengths of the various dispensations since Adam. In no Scripture are we taught to believe that the heavens and the Earth were originally created during the six days and at the time of Adam about 6000 years ago.
Some use Exodus 20:8-11; 31:17 to try and prove that the heavens and the Earth were created in the six days of Gen. 1:3-2:25, and therefore, that they were created about 6000 years ago. However, nothing is said of the original creation of the heavens and the Earth in these passages.

In these Scriptures the Hebrew word 'ASAH,' meaning to make out of already existing material, is used instead of the word 'BARA,' to create. These verses picture the re-creation work of the six days and not the original creation "In the beginning."

'ASAH' never means to create. It is translated 'MADE,' 659 times; 'MAKE,' 449 times; 'MAKETH,' 59 times and 'MAKEST,' sixteen times; 'MAKER,' thirteen times; 'MAKING,' eleven times; and 'MADEST,' three times.
When God said, "In six days, the Lord 'MADE' heaven and Earth," he had in mind the restoration of the heaven (firmament, or clouds) the Earth to a habitable state as it was before the destruction of Lucifer’s kingdom by the flood and Gen. 1:2.

 

Molecular science does not disprove the creations of God. All things were created after Lucifer’s rebellion, "After their own kind."

 

Every Instance: after their kind,   AV (Gen-Rev),

Gen 1:21, And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:25, And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 6:20, Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
Gen 7:14, They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

So, if they were created after their own kind, it was after the kind that was created before!

We can either believe what God says about Himself and His creations or not? Its up to us.

 

Scriptures prove beyond doubt that there were in fact two great floods on the Earth.

 

Scriptures show that originally, Long before Adam and Eve were created, God created the Earth and placed Lucifer as ruler of the society there.

 

God gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before "Iniquity was found in him. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:13-15).

Before Adam Lucifer was the ruler of the Earth.

God is taking about Lucifer in these Scriptures. He was a perfect created angelic arc angel; "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:13-15).

Lucifer wanted to control the universe and knock God off His throne. He over a long period of time convinced one third of God's angels to rebell with him and they rebelled against God and His universal rule, and invaded heaven to try and de-throne God Himself. (Ezek 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God concerning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

This doctrin is simple for most men to understand, so they reject it. Especially the churches for some reason. I have never heard a priest or pastor talk about these things until I found a book called, “God’s Plan For Man, by Finis Jennings Dake.”

2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:

But the heavens and the Earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is where people become confused and say the world "that then was," was the world before Noah's flood, but this cannot be because:

If the world that THAT THEN WAS" is that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God created The heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW" since the flood of Noah. Noah and his family lived prior to his flood and after it. The world "THAT THEN WAS PERISHED" and everything in it also perished. What change could Noah's flood make to the heavens? None, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. The earth, vegetation, the heavens, all remained the same after Noah's flood.

Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it was the destruction of the social system before Adam?

This is the doctrin of which men are still ignorant of, which they call "the gap theory." Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth showing that it is a clear doctrin of Scripture if men would stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make this doctrin clear; so "If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed in (1 Cor. 14:38).

Peter said these scoffers of the last days, the days we are in now, since Noah, would be ignorant of the fact that the heavens were of old; that the social system ruled by Lucifer on the old Earth perished by water; that the heavens and the Earth since the six days of restoration are kept in store to be purified again- the next time by fire; that the Lord is not slack concerning His promises of final restoration of the earth to its third perfect state; and that God was longsuffering to all men, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance. In Isa. 14:12-14 we have statements which cannot possibly of an earthly King. The passage is universally refering to the fall of Satan. We can quote it and note the facts.

"How art thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which dist weaken the nations! For thou art hast said in thine heart, I WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN, I WILL EXALT MY THRONE above the stars of God: I WILL sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I WILL ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE like the most High," Now note the following facts this passage proves of Satan:

1. That his name is Lucifer.

2. That he was a son of the morning, and therefore, no earthly man.

3. That he fell from Heaven. This could never be spoken of a man. Satan is the only person in all Scripture who is spoken of as falling from Heaven (Luke 10:18).

4. That he was cut down to the ground in his fall.

5. That he weakened the nations on Earth.

6. That he was exalted in his heart.

7. That he invaded hHeaven where God rules.

8. That he was a KING, for he had a Throne and SUBJECTS over whom he ruled.

9. That he wanted to exalt his kingdom above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven itself to dethrone God.

10. That he wanted to be worshiped in the congregation of God (Ps. 72:2; 82:1; Isa. 6:1).

11. That he led a rebellion against God but was defeated.

12. That his kingdom was on Earth, or he never could have tried to ascend above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven. When a kingdom is located under the clouds it has to be on the Earth.

13. That the ground, clouds, stars, and Heaven were already created.

14. That it had to be before Adam, for this was not the position of Lucifer when he was in Adam's Eden. Adam had dominion at that time. Lucifer had no kingdom on the Earth at the time of Adam and he has not had one since in the sense of a visible personal rule on Earth. He has only ruled through others since Adam's day; so this must refer to a time before Adam.

15. That he was not in Heaven when he rebelled, else he could not have desired to ascend into Heaven. He was under the stars, or he could not have desired to be exalted above the stars. He was under the clouds, or he could not have desired to ascend above them.

16. That God's throne is located in the north part of the universe (Psalms 75:6-7). Thus, this passage proves the location of Satan's original kingdom and the time of his fall. It was located on Earth, and his fall was before Adam, for he was al;reday a fallen creature when he entered Adam' Eden.

In Coll. 1:15-18 we read of Christ creating thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers in Heaven and on Earth. They were located somewhere in the heavens and on the Earth. Lucifer was given a kingdom here on Earth, as proved by the passages cited above. His own subjects were earthly creatures of various kinds which were destroyed when the flood of Gen. 1:2 came upon the Earth. God created the Earth to be inhabited by earthly creatures (Isa. 45:18). They are called "nations" in the above passages. The demons who are now Satans emissaries could well be the spirits of the pre-Adamites. At any rate they are not part of the creation at the time of Adam. Thus Isaiah teaches the the Earth was inhabited before Adam and was ruled by Lucifer, whos' kingdom was overthrown when he rebelled.

There is so, so much more found in Scripture regarding this doctrin, many dozens of Scriptures support this. If this is false teaching, it amuses me that no one comes up with nothing more than Noah's flood, which occured much later, did not compleatly destroy the Earth, shake mountains, turn them upside down, turned off the stars and the sun so that there was no light. God had already created the Heavens, they were in existence as well as the Earth only their lights were withheld from shining on the Earth thus causing darkness Gen. 1:2. There was no darkness during Noah's flood? There were men and animals on the earth before Noah's flood, and Noah and his family and the animals survived the flood and were on the Eart after it?

That the Earth ONLY was (became) without form and void (Hebrew tohu vabobu, litterally wast and ruin or desolate and empty), as in Gen. 1:2. That there were mountains of Earth that were shaken and turned upside down by an earthquake so severe, which no doubt caused the remains of animals to be deposited in the very depths of the Earth beneath many layers of solid rock, such as are now been found. Noah's flood never buried animals hundreds of meters beneath solid rock.

Many other scriptures apart from those above can be presented to prove the doctrin of a pre-Adamite world.

To try and put this in a nutshell, God created the heavens first, then the Earth, all in the beginning or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). He caused the heavens and the Earth to be inhabited and gave Lucifer control of the Earth-kingdom, don't believe me, read, (Coll. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Lucifer ruled the earth for God for an unknown period before he rebelled and invaded heaven to try and dethrone God. Not my idea, read (Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14). He was defeated and his kingdom on Earth was destroyed by a flood and the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).

The Earth was turned upside down, a process which caused all the present formations of the Earth. The flood remained on the Earth for an unknown period of time, and then God in six days restored the Earth to a habitable state and made Adam and Eve and his creation to carry out the original plan of God concerning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer, now called Satan, and the spirit rebels caused man to fall, and they regained dominion of the earth through Adam's submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). They have been in control ever since and will be in control untill the second coming of Christ, who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium and make a New Heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth all righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5). Why does science show the earth to be many millions of years old and the Bible "(allegedly)" says it is only six thousand years old? So, as with everything missunderstood in Scripture men call what they do not understand a theory. Hence, the gap theory, or even a herecy. But there was a gap and its no theory. Scripture shows there was a creation "in the beginning" and then a re-creation.

If we take the time to carefully read all the Scriptures regarding this doctrin and not just skim over them retaining old knowledge in the mind, and the READ these below, which backs up what is said, and see for yourselves

You see, God spoke, and as soon as the materials were made, God created and formed with His hands the heavens, with all its light and darkness first, then the Earth, all in the beginning, or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). God created the heavens and the earth to be inhabited and He gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Col. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14). Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before he rebelled and invaded heaven to try and de-throne (Ezek 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God conserning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

This doctrin is too simple for most men to understand, so they reject it.

Now, 2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:
But the heavens and the Earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is where people become confused and say the world "that then was," was the world before Noah's flood, but this cannot be because:

If the world that THAT THEN WAS" is that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God created The heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW" since the flood of Noah. Noah and his family lived prior to his flood and after it. The world "THAT THEN WAS PERISHED" and everything in it also perished. What change could Noah's flood make to the heavens? None, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. The earth, vegetation, the heavens, all remained the same after Noah's flood.

Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it was the destruction of the social system before Adam?

This is the doctrin of which men are still ignorant of, which they call "the gap theory." Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth showing that it is a clear doctrin of Scripture if men would stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make this doctrin clear; so "If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed in (1 Cor. 14:38).

Peter said these scoffers of the last days, the days we are in now, since Noah, would be ignorant of the fact that the heavens were of old; that the social system ruled by Lucifer on the old Earth perished by water; that the heavens and the Earth since the six days of restoration are kept in store to be purified again- the next time by fire; that the Lord is not slack concerning His promises of final restoration of the earth to its third perfect state; and that God was longsuffering to all men, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance.

 

Here’s the Scriptures that show a vast difference between the flood God hit the Earth with in His anger after Lucifers rebellion, and the flood of Noah. I will head the Scriptures L.F for Lucifers Flood, and N.F. for Noahs Flood.

 

L.F. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Earth not made waste (Gen. 8:11-12, 22 ; Heb. 11:7 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. Earth made empty (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23).
N.F. Earth not made empty (Gen. 6:18-22 ; 8:16). Noah, his wife, his sons and their wives and all the animals on the Arc were saved alive to start over.

L.F. Earth made totally dark (Gen. 1:2-5 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Not made totally dark (Gen. 8:6-22)

L.F. No light from heaven (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Light from heaven (Gen. 8:6-22).

L.F. No day and night (Gen. 1:2-5).
N.F. Day and night (Gen. 8:1-22).

L.F. All vegetation destroyed Gen. 1:2 ; 2:5-6 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Vegetation not destroyed (Gen. 8:11, 21 ; 9:3, 20).

L.F. No continued abating of the waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Continued abating of the waters from the earth by evaporation (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. Waters taken off the earth in one day (Gen. 1:10).
N.F. Months of waters abating off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. God supernaturally takes waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Natural work of evaporation of the waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. No rebuke or miraculous work in fled away (Gen. 1:6-12 ; Ps. 104:7).
N.F. No rebuke or miraculous work is taking waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. The waters on earth in Gen. 1:2, hasted away when rebuked (Gen. 1:6-2 ; Ps. 104:9).
N.F. The bounds already eternally set for waters in Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. All fish were totally destroyed in flood of Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. No fish were destroyed of created again after Noah's flood (Gen. 1:20-23 ; 6:18-22).

L.F. No Fowls left on the earth after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Fowls were left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:7-17).

L.F. No animals left after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Some of all animals kept alive (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:17 ; 9:2-4, 10-16).

L.F. No man left on earth in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Eight men and women left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:18 ; 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No social system left at all in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. A social system left after Noah's flood (Gen. 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No ark made to save men in Gen. 1:2 ; jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. An ark made to save men and animals alive (Gen. 6:8-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16 ; Heb. 11:7).

L.F. Cause: fall of Lucifer, now Satan (Isa. 14:12-14; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17 ; Luke 10:18).
N.F. Cause: wickedness of men (Gen. 6:5-13) ; and fallen angels (Gen. 6:1-4; Jude 6-7 ; 2 Pet. 2:4).

L.F. Result: became necessary to make new life on earth (Gen. 1:3-2 : 25 ; Isa. 45:18 ; Eph. 3:11).
N.F. Results: no new creation made, for all men and animals were not destroyed (Gen. 6:18-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16).

 

This proves the Earth was plenished before because God told Noah to go and re-plenish the earth, Genesis 9:1, ‘And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.”

 

Just as God told Adam and Eve to do when He restored the Earth to a habitable state and He created them, Genesis 1:28, “And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth”

Thankyou  Hazard, for so much work in which the Holy Spirit of God guides you , as this is as clear as it gets .

Thankyou Holy Spirit, for guiding this diligent person, to help us understand your work .

[HAZARD]

Thallasa Thank you, you are too kind.

I give God all the credit and thank Him for sending the Holy Spirit to me and showing me, on my knees before God every day, what I asked for. Nothing but the truth. And the truth does set one free.

As Peter stated, scoffers abound, they don't worry me, I pray that God will open their mind as he did mine.

Peter,  .  .  .  in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it was the destruction of the social system before Adam?

This is the doctrin of which men are still ignorant of, which they call "the gap theory." Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth showing that it is a clear doctrin of Scripture if men would stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make this doctrin clear; so "If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed in (1 Cor. 14:38).

Peter said these scoffers of the last days, the days we are in now, since Noah, would be ignorant of the fact that the heavens were of old; that the social system ruled by Lucifer on the old Earth perished by water; that the heavens and the Earth since the six days of restoration are kept in store to be purified again- the next time by fire; that the Lord is not slack concerning His promises of final restoration of the earth to its third perfect state; and that God was longsuffering to all men, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance.

[Serving]

Hi Hazard,

I just want to make a 'bureaucratic" like analysis / response to your post .. nothing personal so please don't take offence ..

 

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HAZARD

Who knows when or what period of time, "IN THE BEGINNING" was?

God does .. He gave His Eye witness account to Moses .. Genesis chpt 5 makes it pretty clear too from the creation of Adam onwards (generations) which CAN be counted .. the BEGINNING is the beginning of creation itself.

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In Genesis it says, Genesis 1;1, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

It does not say, 6'000 years ago God created the heaven and the earth.

The genealogy from Adam onwards that God has already provided gives a very good indication, an eye witness account at that too.

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John 1;1 also states, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

It does not say, Six thousand years ago was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, six thousand years ago?

Why should it? That has to do with the mystery of the Word and is not an account of the time it took to create all things like in Genesis .. thus can not be used as 'evidence' for your point.

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The next two verses also do not mention any time period or time when things were created.

 
John 1: 2, The same was in the beginning with God.
    

John 1; 3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The focus is actually on the mystery regarding the creative Word of God .. not an account of "time spans" like in Genesis .. again, this is 'beside the point'.

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God and the Word, before he became flesh and dwelt among us are ETERNAL beings. Sure as God the Word had no beginning but as a Man, He had a beginning.

 
John 1;14; "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

When regarding the Word, yes, the beginning of the creature (flesh) .. agreed.

But only the Word became flesh .. not the Father Himself.

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It is interesting to note that astronomers have discovered planets about 150,000,000 light years from the Earth. This is about 14,690,062,800,000,000,000 miles from the Earth, or a distance light can travel in 150,000,000 years at a speed of 186,000 miles per second. Astronomers also say there are other universes even beyond this one. They say about 6,000,000,000 stars have been discovered and they are all suns to other planets. If this is true then the universe is beyond human conception.

Because it is "beyond human conception", then not even you can conceptualize it .. you can only blindly assume .. and since you'd be assuming on something "beyond human conception" .. how could you be any surer than the next man's assumptions? when no man can comprehend it to begin with? .. see the "loop" you've trapped yourself into here?

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It is hard to conceive that God has existed from all eternity past as a lazy being, not doing anything until a few millennium ago, when He finally decided to do something.

Well, that's because it is "beyond human conception" .. of course it would be hard to believe since you have no idea how He has done this .. hence your personal assumptions to assume something concerning something which is "beyond human conception".. Lol .. again, see the contradiction?

One can only assume something that is "within human conception" .. which is what you are doing .. but assuming something "within human conception" is not the same as assuming something which is "beyond human conception" .. which is what you are attempting .. but that is a contradiction you are trying to sell .. not being rude, just pointing out the flaw in your 'example'.

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It is easier to conceive that God has been making things in all the eternal past.

 To say that something is "easy to conceive" regarding something "Beyond human conception" is a contradiction .. you have actually undermined your own assumptions by pointing out the futility of your views since they concern something "beyond human conception" .. either it is beyond human conception or it is not .. if it is, then all your assumptions thus far are baseless. (not being rude, just pointing out the error in this train of thought you have defined yourself)

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 John 5:17, "But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."

And they will continue to work through eternity future, and we will be included in their work!

This has nothing to do with your argument regarding elapsed time or regarding everlasting or regarding creation .. the work Jesus speaks of is one of salvation and not in the manner you are using it.

Nevertheless, look again at the wording .. "My Father worketh" - present tense .. "And I work" - present tense .. you can not use this scripture as a supporting article for "everlasting" or for acts of "creation" (elapsed time) .. it is a different subject all together and does not back up your view at all I am afraid .. to be openly blunt.      

END PART 1

 

[Serving]

PART 2

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I ask you, is the universe, many parts of it that are not in rebellion, in sin against God inhabited,? I believe so because of this simple Scripture;

Revelation 12:12, "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them . . . . . . Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." yes, his time will shortly and positively and securely cut off!

Actually Satan and his angels were cast into the Earth .. they are now earthbound .. there is no more rebellion in heaven(s) since Satan was cast out after crucifixion.

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The Bible says the heavens cannot be measured and the host of Heaven cannot be counted (Jer. 31:37 ; 33:22-25).

Can not be counted by MAN.

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It is also clear that the spirit world of angels, seraphims, cherubims, and other spirit beings were created before the Earth, for the "sons of God," (angels), were present and shouting when God laid the foundations of the Earth.

Yes, but what bearing does the spirit realm have to the material world we live in? (creation wise that is) .. Genesis is describing the material plane being created, where WE live ..

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It is also clear from this passage that God created the heavens, including the moon, the sun and stars were created before the Earth,

Yet that contradicts Genesis where the moon and sun etc were created on the 4th day .. (Gen 1:14-19)

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for "the morning stars" sang together when God laid the foundations of the Earth. This would be the logical order of creation, to make theplace before creating the inhabitants to live in or on the place.

Those morning stars are angels who do not need a material 'place' because they are spirit and inhabit the spiritual realm .. I am not 100% sure what you are trying to say here admittedly.

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Since inhabitants were a part of the creation and not part of Creators (Col. 1:15-18), they naturally would have to be created on which they were to live. This is the way it happened on Earth in the six days of the restoration of the Earth from chaos to a second habitable state (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

How do you get "Restoration of the earth" and "second habitable state" out of "God created the heaven and the earth" and how do you get around His declaration that He "saw that it was VERY GOOD"?

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Bearing all this in mind, we either believe our God can and did create everything which included the molecules of the universe, from the basic atomic particles to the subatomic particles, and even particles we know nothing about yet in His creation we see and live in today!

 ?? You have basically said that agreeing with the above equals agreeing with your assumptions !! BUT no believer would contest the above statement, but they would your assumptions .. and honestly, they can easily so this because the above has absolutely nothing to do with your main argument at all .. there is a moniker for what you just did there .. but I can't think of the term they use for it unfortunately .. "bait and switch" maybe?

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In a nutshell and put simply;

And in context with "beyond human conception" .. 

 

TO BE CONTINUED  ..

 

 

[Serving]

CONTINUED

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“In the beginning" [literally by periods or ages] God created the heaven, [Hebrew, heavens] and the earth, not 6000years ago God created the Heaven and the earth.
 When we speak of the six days and the creation of the present life on Earth, we can speak with Bible authority that it was about 6000 years ago. This can be seen by the lengths of the various dispensations since Adam. In no Scripture are we taught to believe that the heavens and the Earth were originally created during the six days and at the time of Adam about 6000 years ago.
 Some use Exodus 20:8-11; 31:17 to try and prove that the heavens and the Earth were created in the six days of Gen. 1:3-2:25, and therefore, that they were created about 6000 years ago. However, nothing is said of the original creation of the heavens and the Earth in these passages.

I strongly suggest visiting a site called creation ministries.com .. they deal masterfully against those holding your view in a very layman friendly approach regarding the Genesis account.

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In these Scriptures the Hebrew word 'ASAH,' meaning to make out of already existing material, is used instead of the word 'BARA,' to create. These verses picture the re-creation work of the six days and not the original creation "In the beginning."

'ASAH' never means to create. It is translated 'MADE,' 659 times; 'MAKE,' 449 times; 'MAKETH,' 59 times and 'MAKEST,' sixteen times; 'MAKER,' thirteen times; 'MAKING,' eleven times; and 'MADEST,' three times.
 When God said, "In six days, the Lord 'MADE' heaven and Earth," he had in mind the restoration of the heaven (firmament, or clouds) the Earth to a habitable state as it was before the destruction of Lucifer’s kingdom by the flood and Gen. 1:2

People need to realise something here .. God consistently proclaims throughout the bible, from Genesis right through to revelations that Israel does NOT understand .. it is EVERYWHERE, so constantly referring to what the Hebrews understood is POINTLESS.

People need to STOP comparing the English to the Hebrew because God released His written word to mankind on a global level and for the first time in history THROUGH the English language and NOT the Hebrew . why? .. because God used the English language to CONFIRM what He meant all along .. He did NOT use the Hebrew language for this purpose nor the Greek, so again, using the Hebrew or the Greek to correct the English is a utter waste of time .. it is an act of linguistic "devolution" in reality .. God sorted that out in the 1600's when the time was ripe for worldwide distribution of His 7 times PERFECTED written word with the KJV being the 7th and final, being the one released worldwide.

But scholars HATE this because the KJV is the ONLY script under the seal of a Kings copyright which means they can not get their GRUBBY hands on the ONLY untainted script changing it at whim .. "yea, did God say" indeed .. which is why we see all these counterfeits which all DISAGREE with each other !! It is called Divide & Conquer and business is BOOMING indeed for these bible changing meddlers / peddlers .. "woe unto thee SCRIBES" indeed.

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Molecular science does not disprove the creations of God. All things were created after Lucifer’s rebellion, "After their own kind."

Scriptures please.

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Every Instance: after their kind,   AV (Gen-Rev),

Gen 1:21, And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
 Gen 1:25, And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
 Gen 6:20, Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
 Gen 7:14, They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

So, if they were created after their own kind, it was after the kind that was created before!

Dude, that is not what God meant at all .. God is categorizing the animals is all .. after the ORIGINAL kind / MODEL (BLUEPRINT) within their BREEDINGS is what is meant. 

And another thing, God had Adam NAME all these animals seeing WHAT Adam would call them .. so according to you, even the NAMES of the animals have all been changed !!     

Where does this line of thinking end?

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We can either believe what God says about Himself and His creations or not? Its up to us.

We can indeed .. disagreeing with YOUR interpretation does NOT equate to disagreeing with WHAT God said at all .. you have associated your OPINION with divinity by saying that .. strangely, you are appealing to your OWN authority here.

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Scriptures prove beyond doubt that there were in fact two great floods on the Earth.

Nonsense .. scriptures please.

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Scriptures show that originally, Long before Adam and Eve were created, God created the Earth and placed Lucifer as ruler of the society there.

Er, what "bible" are you reading? I am reading from the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacobs written word .. and nowhere is the above found, but only in ones misinterpretations.

TO BE CONTINUED..  

[Serving]

CONTINUED

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God gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before "Iniquity was found in him. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:13-15).

Before Adam Lucifer was the ruler of the Earth.

Why are you mixing it all up?

Yes Satan has reign over the kingdoms, but your examples are not at all correct ..

Rev 12:12 has NOTHING to do with Satan's reign at all, it is to do with his wrath at being cast out of heaven .. this is POST FLOOD btw.

Ezekiel 28:11-18 speaks of Satan's corrupt ways during the reign of Tyrus which is also POST FLOOD.

Isaiah 14:12-14 speaks of Satan's attempt (war in heaven) to overthrow God, again, nothing to do with his earthly reign but a desire to be a king in heaven !! 

I suggest using Luke 4:5-7 which shows Satan's rule over the world's kingdoms .. as for Satan's supposed heavenly rule, you have provided not ONE scripture as evidence simply because there are NONE .. it is all assumption is all.

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 God is taking about Lucifer in these Scriptures. He was a perfect created angelic arc angel; "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:13-15).

 Lucifer wanted to control the universe and knock God off His throne. He over a long period of time convinced one third of God's angels to rebell with him and they rebelled against God and His universal rule, and invaded heaven to try and de-throne God Himself. (Ezek 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Agreed except for a minor anomaly, your usage of "invade" implies Satan came from outside of heaven, but he didn't because he was already in heaven until being cast out after crucifixion.

The next part will take a little more effort to answer because of all the assumptions etc .. when I got more time I will continue.

 

TO BE CONTINUED.

[Sister]

On 21/12/2015 at 4:11 AM, Bonky said:

If God knew in advance that Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels would rebel then I'd say he has some culpability in allowing sin to enter into the equation [reality].   I'm not sure how anyone would suggest otherwise. 

What I find truly mind boggling is how any creature could exist in heaven and be tempted to turn away and go the other direction.

Bonky

 Isaiah 54:16   Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

 Isaiah 10:15   Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood.

God knew exactly what he was doing when he created Lucifer.  He made no mistake and wasn't surprised at Lucifer's rebellion, for he planned it this way for Lucifer to become his tool, created like a magnet to attract the wicked. 

God was careful to create Lucifer perfectly at first so that pride and vanity could build up in him, and he also filled him with much wisdom, for he wasn't going to give us a dumb angel to contend with, but one smart enough to corrupt this whole world through that wisdom he was given in order to connive, plan and destroy at the highest level.

.....and also, training Christians to fight against the best evil can offer.