Sin is not imputed when there is no law

[Pamelasv]

They were not judged according to the Mosaic Law, but according to the natural law.   Sodom and Gomorrah broke God's natural law and were judged.

Funny I did not see this at all at first.  Makes sense.  

[Pamelasv]

Right. So then..............what purpose does the scripture I quoted serve?

What Paul was saying there is that sins were not clearly and specifically defined and presented to men as a violation of specific laws until the Ten Commandments were written down by the finger of God.  Therefore they could not be "imputed" or charged as specific sins. Since then Israel (and all those exposed to the Torah among the Gentiles) knew exactly which of the commandments they had broken (or were breaking), which means they also knew which specific penalty would apply (which is in fact death).

For example if there is no posted speed limit on a highway, then the driver must use his best judgement (which includes his conscience in terms of endangering others).  But once a clearly deflned speed limit is posted, then exceeding that limit means breaking the law, and there is a specific penalty for that.

Sounds good.

[Your closest friendnt]

They were not judged according to the Mosaic Law, but according to the natural law.   Sodom and Gomorrah broke God's natural law and were judged.

It is interesting to see that God did judge them, and they were not his own, he was not their God, they had  their own Gods and laws to be judge with.

I can not agree that it is "the natural laws" alone, and other things that provoke God. He did not judge other people who were doing the same thing in other parts of the globe, it was not a Global judgement, it was just a local matter, it was a matter within the land God had Promish to give to Abraham. 

Because he said; This Land is mine and I will give it unto you. 

I am a holy God and this Land is mine, it is Holly. 

Those specific  people were judge,  not because of what they were doing, but because, they were doing those and other things on the holy land of God, they were living on holy land, whether they new it or not, and that was a message to Abraham,  that he won't spare His seed if they do the same things on his holy land.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Pamela,,,,

    Seems I did not understand your question & as you say"missed the point",,,,although I am still not sure what point you are trying to make?

¹² All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.    Romans 2:12

 

¹⁴ (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. ¹⁵ They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)                                    Romans 2:14-15

 People know right from wrong,,,,,,,,as most have said,,,,,,moral conscience                      With love,in Christ,Kwik

[Your closest friendnt]

1 Romans 5:13

'for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.' 

Well, what do you think of this?  I am thinking of God judging all those nations who didn't have the law.  Not sure what he means by this. 

You can not have  an answer to your question, which is in a deferent contex than the scripture you have quote, you must build  the contex, then ask the question within that contex. Example the season of time, or the period of time frame, before the Cross, after Jesus birth and before the Cross,  from the baptism of Jesus to his birth, and from the baptism to the Cross, from the resuraction to the taking up of Jesus, to the Penticost, from the Penticost of the Jews to the Penticost of the Gentiles, and from the Cross till the appearance of Jesus to the disciples.

From Abraham to the sircumsision, from the sircumsision to the ten commandments, to the introduction of the Law of Moses and the beginning of practicing  what is written in the Law in their new land. Diferent facets, diferent applications. 

 

[Hippie333]

I suggest an interesting study .. research laws...or examples of the laws Pre-Moses and the Commandments. God's Law was established in Genesis ... it's illustrated over and over again ... from Idols to Stealing.... I believe that most are already established in Genesis...but Job contains a few as well. It was known. Please post your findings

 

God Bless,

Hip

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

They were not judged according to the Mosaic Law, but according to the natural law.   Sodom and Gomorrah broke God's natural law and were judged.

It is interesting to see that God did judge them, and they were not his own, he was not their God, they had  their own Gods and laws to be judge with.

I can not agree that it is "the natural laws" alone, and other things that provoke God. He did not judge other people who were doing the same thing in other parts of the globe, it was not a Global judgement, it was just a local matter, it was a matter within the land God had Promish to give to Abraham. 

Because he said; This Land is mine and I will give it unto you. 

I am a holy God and this Land is mine, it is Holly. 

Those specific  people were judge,  not because of what they were doing, but because, they were doing those and other things on the holy land of God, they were living on holy land, whether they new it or not, and that was a message to Abraham,  that he won't spare His seed if they do the same things on his holy land.

It would seem to me then, that if it was because of the land they were on, then not just Sodom and Gomorrah would have been judged if it was not because of their actions.

I go back to the scriptures for why God judged Sodom and Gomorrah.   Sodom and Gomorrah were judged, according to scripture, because of their wickedness.   In Gen 18 Abraham bargains with God to spare it if 10 righteous men could be found there.  

It was not because of where they were, but because their sin was so grave that they were destroyed, and God could not find even 10 righteous among them.  If He had found 10 righteous, He promised Abraham the cities would be spared:

20

So the LORD said: The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great, and their sin so grave,

21that I must go down to see whether or not their actions are as bad as the cry against them that comes to me. I mean to find out.

22As the men turned and walked on toward Sodom, Abraham remained standing before the LORD.

23Then Abraham drew near and said: “Will you really sweep away the righteous with the wicked?

24Suppose there were fifty righteous people in the city; would you really sweep away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people within it?

 

32But he persisted: “Please, do not let my Lord be angry if I speak up this last time. What if ten are found there?” For the sake of the ten, he replied, I will not destroy it.

[Pamelasv]

1 Romans 5:13

'for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.' 

Well, what do you think of this?  I am thinking of God judging all those nations who didn't have the law.  Not sure what he means by this. 

You can not have  an answer to your question, which is in a deferent contex than the scripture you have quote, you must build  the contex, then ask the question within that contex. Example the season of time, or the period of time frame, before the Cross, after Jesus birth and before the Cross,  from the baptism of Jesus to his birth, and from the baptism to the Cross, from the resuraction to the taking up of Jesus, to the Penticost, from the Penticost of the Jews to the Penticost of the Gentiles, and from the Cross till the appearance of Jesus to the disciples.

From Abraham to the sircumsision, from the sircumsision to the ten commandments, to the introduction of the Law of Moses and the beginning of practicing  what is written in the Law in their new land. Diferent facets, diferent applications. 

 

Seemed pretty clear to me it was in reference to before the laws were given to the Israelites when they came out of Egypt.  Just that scripture alone says that in itself because we know when the laws were given.  When I post questions in here, I post assuming people who are going to answer already know the bible, so I don't have to go into a lot of detail.  

[Pamelasv]

I suggest an interesting study .. research laws...or examples of the laws Pre-Moses and the Commandments. God's Law was established in Genesis ... it's illustrated over and over again ... from Idols to Stealing.... I believe that most are already established in Genesis...but Job contains a few as well. It was known. Please post your findings

 

God Bless,

Hip

 

 

Good idea. Go for it. 

No seriously, I will probably take notes on that the next time I start from the beginning at Genisis, which I just did not all that long ago, and wondering also how they were sure what sin was at that time.  Just the knowlege of it is in them as it says in Romans. 

[Your closest friendnt]

1 Romans 5:13

'for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.' 

Well, what do you think of this?  I am thinking of God judging all those nations who didn't have the law.  Not sure what he means by this. 

You can not have  an answer to your question, which is in a deferent contex than the scripture you have quote, you must build  the contex, then ask the question within that contex. Example the season of time, or the period of time frame, before the Cross, after Jesus birth and before the Cross,  from the baptism of Jesus to his birth, and from the baptism to the Cross, from the resuraction to the taking up of Jesus, to the Penticost, from the Penticost of the Jews to the Penticost of the Gentiles, and from the Cross till the appearance of Jesus to the disciples.

From Abraham to the sircumsision, from the sircumsision to the ten commandments, to the introduction of the Law of Moses and the beginning of practicing  what is written in the Law in their new land. Diferent facets, diferent applications. 

 

Seemed pretty clear to me it was in reference to before the laws were given to the Israelites when they came out of Egypt.  Just that scripture alone says that in itself because we know when the laws were given.  When I post questions in here, I post assuming people who are going to answer already know the bible, so I don't have to go into a lot of detail.  

Thank you for your clarification, this scripture does very well aplly to the reference you have made, and not only in this situationson but in others.

Yes God did not punish them, even if it encourage their sining.

When God gave them at first the ten commandments those prohibitions had remain unpunished in the past. 

They were Idolatric worshipers almond them and you see that even Aaron build the Idol for them. But this time it was deferent, they were punish with death, and they were not  even given the chance to repent and reconcile to him. 

This is the beginning and it was very strict, eventually and gradually the Lord became merciful to them and gave them the chance for repentance.  

Another situation that came to my mind is the Gentiles, God had given them to idol worship they were not his people and he had not right to judge them what so ever, definately they did not have the sacrifises for attonment and forgivness of sins. 

The Law of Moses came with the sacrifises for forgiveness. 

The Gentilles sin were unpunished from God.

When Jesus died for all, that's when he offer the salvation to all, and that's when God made him the judge of all, amen. He still leaves sins unpunished . Because he was punish for us, and he also punishes today for he own reasons, but he never punish one of his own (a simple and uninterested believer in him, an indeferent one, and a litle bitter to hell, no never,) no this kind of punishment to any one who is under his blood, but walk in this life as they are not).

No never.