DID YOU CHOOSE GOD ! ,OR DID HE ALREADY CHOOSED YOU ?

[ghtan]

50 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Yes, the text I provided does state that the date is fixed.  I agree that the text also states it is God's prerogative not to reveal that fixed date to us.   That you are not wanting to admit the obvious meaning the text shows that you really have a problem with being honest about what the text says.   God always operates in the fullness of time.   The future is not up in the air and God is not walking in the same ignorance of the matter that we are.  You simply need to believe the Bible instead of trying to make the Bible fit your sloppy theology.

Why should I admit that the text reads what you want it to read when it goes against the NKJV translation? I trust the latter is correct. I am surprised that you are defending your reading of this text so vigorously. Is it because it is the only text you can find to support your case? Well, then your claim is based on the disputed reading of one text alone. Rather unwise, I think.

[Guest shiloh357]

34 minutes ago, OakWood said:

Knowing something ahead of time is not the same as seeing into the future. I know ahead of time that ISIS are going to continue to be a massive nuisance to the West. They've already killed lots of people and they'll kill a lot more. How do I know? Well, I know what they are like and what their intentions are. It's a safe prediction to claim that they will continue to cause trouble.

 

Yeah,  we can, based on past behavior, reasonably predict what ISIS will do in the future.   But we cannot know the specifics.    The thing about God's knowing the future, and we see this in the Bible, is that God is able to tell us specifics.   God doesn't just make general claims about future events.   For instance, in Jeremiah, God predicts not only that Israel will return to their land, but God says that they will purchase the land and he tells us exactly which parcels of land they will purchase.    God gives very precise details that a fortune teller or pagan "prophet" can't do.    God can do that because God is outside of time and the future from God's perspective is as much a done deal as the past.  

God sees the future, because he is already there.

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God knows so much and can see everything, observing both the Earth and the Outer Universe at the same time. He can see every fine microscopic detail including numbering the hairs on your head. Anything that God has predetermined is only because he has a plan and he will make that plan happen because nothing can stop him. He has not seen into the future, instead he can make the future happen. There is no future to see into. If there was then the script has already been written beforehand and cannot be changed.

I am sorry, but the precision and specific nature of Bible prophecy renders that entire statement false.

 

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God could change his mind if he wanted to, but he doesn't normally do so because his plan is very well thought out and brilliant. Somebody who can see everything is unlikely to make a bad plan. However if God ever did make a mistake then he would be free to change his mind and think of another plan. Genesis 6:6 tells us that he regretted doing something. However, he chose to continue anyway but he adapted his plan slightly - therefore he had a slight change of mind.

God can't make a mistake.  So God can't change his mind.   God doesn't ever make a miscalculation, or error, so there never any need on his part to change his mind.

[Guest shiloh357]

7 minutes ago, ghtan said:

Why should I admit that the text reads what you want it to read when it goes against the NKJV translation? I trust the latter is correct. I am surprised that you are defending your reading of this text so vigorously. Is it because it is the only text you can find to support your case? Well, then your claim is based on the disputed reading of one text alone. Rather unwise, I think.

I am going off of the Greek, not the NJKV.   If you want to argue that NKJV is an inspired transalation, go for it.   But the ESV is as much a formal translation as the NKJV. 

The New American Standard Bible, which is considered by scholars to be the most accurate of the modern translations agrees with the ESV

 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; (Acts. 1:6-7, NASB)

You are letting your theology drive your interpretation and you hang your hat on NKJV because it words it the way you need it worded to make your case, but the Greek simply doesn't support the notion that fixed is not a correct English word to put in that text.   The word in Greek, in this context, can be rendered, "fixed, placed, established, set, all of which are synonymous.   So really don't have a case to make.

[OakWood]

7 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

8 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Yeah,  we can, based on past behavior, reasonably predict what ISIS will do in the future.   But we cannot know the specifics.    The thing about God's knowing the future, and we see this in the Bible, is that God is able to tell us specifics.   God doesn't just make general claims about future events.   For instance, in Jeremiah, God predicts not only that Israel will return to their land, but God says that they will purchase the land and he tells us exactly which parcels of land they will purchase.    God gives very precise details that a fortune teller or pagan "prophet" can't do.    God can do that because God is outside of time and the future from God's perspective is as much a done deal as the past.  

God sees the future, because he is already there.

I am sorry, but the precision and specific nature of Bible prophecy renders that entire statement false.

 

God can't make a mistake.  So God can't change his mind.   God doesn't ever make a miscalculation, or error, so there never any need on his part to change his mind.

Yeah,  we can, based on past behavior, reasonably predict what ISIS will do in the future.   But we cannot know the specifics.    The thing about God's knowing the future, and we see this in the Bible, is that God is able to tell us specifics.   God doesn't just make general claims about future events.   For instance, in Jeremiah, God predicts not only that Israel will return to their land, but God says that they will purchase the land and he tells us exactly which parcels of land they will purchase.    God gives very precise details that a fortune teller or pagan "prophet" can't do.    God can do that because God is outside of time and the future from God's perspective is as much a done deal as the past.  

God sees the future, because he is already there.

I am sorry, but the precision and specific nature of Bible prophecy renders that entire statement false.

 

God can't make a mistake.  So God can't change his mind.   God doesn't ever make a miscalculation, or error, so there never any need on his part to change his mind.

We don't know the specifics because we don't have enough information. God can see everywhere. We can't. This has got nothing to do with seeing into the future.

You say that God doesn't make mistakes but Genesis 6:6 clearly says that he repented. There is no need to repent if you haven't made a mistake.

God is NOT already in the future because the future does not exist. You are using man-made explanations of time and dimensions to justify your theory.

[gdemoss]

48 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No, God didn't change his mind about you.   You were not predestined to go to hell, so there was no change that occurred in God.  I accept Scripture.  I just don't accept how people try to mold Scripture to fit their misguided Scripture.   Rejecting how you interpret Scripture doesn't mean I reject Scripture.   I don't explain Scripture away at all.  I correct your misinterpretation and mishandling of it.

What is at stake if God changes his mind???    Salvation.    If God goes through the Bible saying one thing and then changing his mind later after deciding that his original plan was wrong, what assurance do we have that God won't at some future time, decide that the current plan of salvation was a mistake?   Don't we want a plan that is based on a God who doesn't change his mind??  

The reason we are still saved, the reason we are eternally secure is precisely because we know that God isn't going to change his mind.    If God is always changing his mind, then how can we claim he is faithful??    Promises mean nothing if we able to go back and say, "yeah, on second thought, I am not going to do that, after all."    

That's what is ultimately at stake.   If we are going to argue that God changes his mind, are willing to apply that to salvation and put salvation on the chopping block??   Is that a road we want to go down?

Thanks Shiloh, I now understand what you hear when you hear God changes his mind.  I also see why you believe that that which is being presented is in error.  I am with you concerning the types of things your talking about.  Salvation is and always has been the same.  God will not go back on his word.  What you describe as changing ones mind I see as going back on ones word.  What I describe as changing ones mind is much different than that.  That is why I asked concerning doctrines at stake.  And as I said, I don't see you as the type of person who tries to change scripture to avoid obeying it.  I am working to better understand you as I go.  You are ultra sensitive to anything that you perceive could be construed as erroring from core, essential  Christian doctrines.  I actually believe we are probably close in agreement but though we both speak english it is as if we speak entirely different languages.  Have a good night.

[Guest shiloh357]

14 minutes ago, OakWood said:

We don't know the specifics because we don't have enough information. God can see everywhere. We can't. This has got nothing to do with seeing into the future.

You say that God doesn't make mistakes but Genesis 6:6 clearly says that he repented. There is no need to repent if you haven't made a mistake.

God is NOT already in the future because the future does not exist. You are using man-made explanations of time and dimensions to justify your theory.

God doesn't "see" into the future.  God is not bound by linear time, so he is not standing in the present and seeing into the future.  God is already in the future.  

Rule #1: God doesn't make mistakes.  That is indisputable.  God is not capable of error.  That is theology 101.  Therefore, your take on Gen. 6:6 is wrong.  That means that your shallow, one dimensional view of the word, "repent"  is erroneous.

If God is capable of making mistakes, then we cannot trust the Bible.  God is infallible and HIs word is infallible.   IF God is capable of error, then how do know that the Bible has no errors in it?   If it has errors, what kind of errors?   How would those errors possibly affect our eternal destiny??   Did God make a mistake about salvation?   If God makes mistakes then he is not worthy of our worship and 100% of our trust.

From God's perspective the future does exist because God often refers to the future in the past tense.  You will see that all throughout the book of Revelation.   For God, the future is as established as the past.

You know Oakwood, I have always appreciated and have been really inspired by your insights into current events and politics, as well as your support of Israel.   But your theology is a mess.   You have a lot to come to grips with when it comes to the essential attributes of God, particularly his omniscience.

[hmbld]

22 minutes ago, OakWood said:

We don't know the specifics because we don't have enough information. God can see everywhere. We can't. This has got nothing to do with seeing into the future.

You say that God doesn't make mistakes but Genesis 6:6 clearly says that he repented. There is no need to repent if you haven't made a mistake.

God is NOT already in the future because the future does not exist. You are using man-made explanations of time and dimensions to justify your theory.

How can God confine Himself inside His own creation-time?

[OakWood]

5 hours ago, hmbld said:

5 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

God doesn't "see" into the future.  God is not bound by linear time, so he is not standing in the present and seeing into the future.  God is already in the future.  

Rule #1: God doesn't make mistakes.  That is indisputable.  God is not capable of error.  That is theology 101.  Therefore, your take on Gen. 6:6 is wrong.  That means that your shallow, one dimensional view of the word, "repent"  is erroneous.

If God is capable of making mistakes, then we cannot trust the Bible.  God is infallible and HIs word is infallible.   IF God is capable of error, then how do know that the Bible has no errors in it?   If it has errors, what kind of errors?   How would those errors possibly affect our eternal destiny??   Did God make a mistake about salvation?   If God makes mistakes then he is not worthy of our worship and 100% of our trust.

From God's perspective the future does exist because God often refers to the future in the past tense.  You will see that all throughout the book of Revelation.   For God, the future is as established as the past.

You know Oakwood, I have always appreciated and have been really inspired by your insights into current events and politics, as well as your support of Israel.   But your theology is a mess.   You have a lot to come to grips with when it comes to the essential attributes of God, particularly his omniscience.

 

Why did God repent of something? You are IGNORING scripture.  Please explain why somebody would repent of something they did if all was going to plan? Please explain this without backpedalling and contradicting yourself. If my take on Genesis 6:6 is all wrong then correct me without changing the meaning of words to suit your own theology.

By the way when I said that the future does not exist you actually agreed with me at one time or at the very least understood what I was saying. You do have a short memory or maybe your own theology is a mess.

 

[SINNERSAVED]

4 minutes ago, OakWood said:

Why did God repent of something? You are IGNORING scripture.  Please explain why somebody would repent of something they did if all was going to plan? Please explain this without backpedalling and contradicting yourself. If my take on Genesis 6:6 is all wrong then correct me without changing the meaning of words to suit your own theology.

By the way when I said that the future does not exist you actually agreed with me at one time. You do have a short memory or maybe your own theology is a mess.

 

with all the knowledge we hold ,and all the hard studies, we try to explain everything God is doing ?, but I think we are failing to place our selves as creations of the creator, and that we will never know or understand all that God has for us, I want to say brothers that we should not get  into so deep in topics, that creates the challenges of competition, and not brotherly love and the spirit of peace   , we all share, in Gods words.

I have seen some of the arguments, and I think some of us need to relax and enjoy the Glory and Majesty of God , instead of trying to be right, or smarter then the other, we are all here to learn , but yet give glory ,honor and praises to the one that has saved us  and keeps us, even though we are sinners, we are saved by the everlasting God almighty , and we are His followers , and this we can all agree on, let us build and help each other in structure of content, in scripture, and in the word of God, but be forgiving and in grace of each other. showing brotherly love , also , for it is not only by our smarts  WE ARE LIKE CHRIST, but we also have to ACT LIKE CHRIST in our lives too.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, OakWood said:

Why did God repent of something? You are IGNORING scripture.  Please explain why somebody would repent of something they did if all was going to plan? Please explain this without backpedalling and contradicting yourself. If my take on Genesis 6:6 is all wrong then correct me without changing the meaning of words to suit your own theology.

By the way when I said that the future does not exist you actually agreed with me at one time or at the very least understood what I was saying. You do have a short memory or maybe your own theology is a mess.

 

First of all, I am not ignoring the Scripture.   How do we reconcile Gen. 6:6 which says God repented with Numb. 23:19, I Sam. 15:29, Jer. 4:28 and Psa. 132:11, all of  which say that God doesn't repent or change his mind?  The answer is in how the word repent is meant to be understood in Gen. 6:6.  

The word "atonement"  is a word that can refer to consecration, even though our most common understanding is that it refers to the expiation/covering of moral sin.   when you make "atonement" for an inanimate object and in some cases, for people, it also carries the dimension of consecration of that object or person.

I believe the same thing is in play, here in Gen. 6:6.   It doesn't mean repent in the sense of saying that God admitted that making man was a mistake.  God cannot commit error, so that cannot be the correct understanding of Gen. 6:6.   God is infallible and nothing he has ever done was the wrong thing to do.  That is a cornerstone of sound Christian theology.    That God is repenting in the sense that he is admitting error can ruled out and must be ruled out.

The word for repent is being used in a way that is augmented by the word grieved.  Hebraic patterns are reflected in the text where a word is followed by another word to define or clarify what was said previously.   It doesn't say the Lord repented.  It says, "it repented the Lord"   It's a word that used as a verb is the same as "grieved.  It literally means that God sighed a  deep sigh.   It doesn't necessarily mean, "Sorry, I made a mistake." 

As for the time I agreed with you before, that was a different topic and a different context and totally different subject matter.   In fact, I find you to be in contradiction with what you said before, in that now you claim God doesn't know the future because the future doesn't exist.   

I said the following in that response:

 

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Oak is not saying that God doesn't know the future.  What Oak is saying is that God is not simply waiting on the future to unfold the way we are.   He is saying that God knows the future because God creates the future. 

You were saying something then that looks to be the opposite of what you're saying now.   So yes, it is YOUR theology that is a mess, not mine.