THE LAWLESS ONE ABLE TO CHANGE TIMES AND LAW?

[Last Daze]

10 hours ago, Davida said:

It's not a stretch to imagine. Change to lunar calendar and there you have change of times ,  remove democracy & put in dictatorial totalitarian rule and you have change in laws.

 

Yeah, I can't imagine that the man of sin would want a calendar demarcated by "the Word becoming flesh" (BC / AD) to persist.  Given his arrogance, I can see where he could mandate one global calendar and start it at year 1, or some such'a thing.

The image of the beast (a global collaboration which yields a code of conduct affirming the man of sin's rule and "deity") comes alive when he declares it to be law.  Those who refuse to abide by it (worship it) are put to death. 

[WilliamL]

On 11/28/2015 at 10:11 PM, SINNERSAVED said:

DANIEL TALKS ABOUT THE LAWLESS ONE, OR THE EVIL ONE ,THIS PERSON OR WHAT EVER IT IS, OR WHAT EVER THE SYSTEM IS ?

THAT IS ABLE TO CHANGE TIMES AND LAWS ? WHAT TIMES AND LAWS ?

THIS WOULD BE A GOOD INDICATOR TO KNOW WHO OR WHAT IS THE ONE DANIEL IS TALKING ABOUT ?

DANIELS KNOWLEDGE, OF WHO AND WHAT IS ABLE TO DO THIS, WOULD IT BE THE SAME ONE ,THAT CAUSES THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION

AND HIS ARMIES DESTROY THE TEMPLE IN THE LAST DAYS, IS THIS ALL ONE PERSON WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ? OR DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND ARMIES?

 

All of this reflects a great deal of confusion, because you are running together the Lawless One of 1 Thes. 2, the Little Horn of Dan. 7, and a false understanding of Dan. 9:26-27. Let's let Scripture sort some of this out, beginning with Dan. 7's Little Horn.

Dan. 7:7 ...behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. ...and it had ten horns. ... 8 ...and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them...in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words. ...25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

Letting the NT reveal the OT, we find in Revelation,

Rev. 13:1 I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns... 5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.

The agreement between these two passages is evident. What does it tell us?

1) That Daniel 7's Little Horn = Rev. 13's Mouth of the Beast.

2) This mouth is not the Beast itself: it is another being serving under the control of the Beast.

3) This mouth shall have dominion for 1260 days = 42 months = 3-1/2 times; that is, a little under 3-1/2 of our current solar years.

4) This mouth is a likely a man. (The only other possibility would be a Nephilim, an angel-man hybrid.)

5) The Beast's dominion does not end when his mouth's dominion ends.

There are a number of scriptures which talk about one person being a mouth = spokesman for either another person or a/the S/spirit. Examples:

Ex. 4:15 “Now you [Moses] shall speak to him [Aaron] and put the words in his mouth. And I [YHWH] will be with your mouth and with his mouth, and I will teach you what you shall do. 16 ...And he himself shall be as a mouth for you, and you shall be to him as God.

Is. 51:16 And I [YHWH] have put My words in your [Isaiah's] mouth...

Is. 59:21 ...My Spirit who is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth...

Very few people (and none so far in this string) have pointed out the difference between the Beast and his Mouth. Rather, they lump them both together and call them "The Antichrist." This is confusion, and it is one of the reasons why I reject the term The Antichrist, because it only serves to muddy up the more precise teachings and different evil personages foretold by the End Time scriptures.

 

[SINNERSAVED]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

 

All of this reflects a great deal of confusion, because you are running together the Lawless One of 1 Thes. 2, the Little Horn of Dan. 7, and a false understanding of Dan. 9:26-27. Let's let Scripture sort some of this out, beginning with Dan. 7's Little Horn.

Dan. 7:7 ...behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. ...and it had ten horns. ... 8 ...and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them...in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words. ...25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

Letting the NT reveal the OT, we find in Revelation,

Rev. 13:1 I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns... 5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.

The agreement between these two passages is evident. What does it tell us?

1) That Daniel 7's Little Horn = Rev. 13's Mouth of the Beast.

2) This mouth is not the Beast itself: it is another being serving under the control of the Beast.

3) This mouth shall have dominion for 1260 days = 42 months = 3-1/2 times; that is, a little under 3-1/2 of our current solar years.

4) This mouth is a likely a man. (The only other possibility would be a Nephilim, an angel-man hybrid.)

5) The Beast's dominion does not end when his mouth's dominion ends.

There are a number of scriptures which talk about one person being a mouth = spokesman for either another person or a/the S/spirit. Examples:

Ex. 4:15 “Now you [Moses] shall speak to him [Aaron] and put the words in his mouth. And I [YHWH] will be with your mouth and with his mouth, and I will teach you what you shall do. 16 ...And he himself shall be as a mouth for you, and you shall be to him as God.

Is. 51:16 And I [YHWH] have put My words in your [Isaiah's] mouth...

Is. 59:21 ...My Spirit who is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth...

Very few people (and none so far in this string) have pointed out the difference between the Beast and his Mouth. Rather, they lump them both together and call them "The Antichrist." This is confusion, and it is one of the reasons why I reject the term The Antichrist, because it only serves to muddy up the more precise teachings and different evil personages foretold by the End Time scriptures.

 

I did not realize that, was a separation, , but does not the beast exercise the power of the lawless one , to accomplish the same with in the system and power of the evil one

there fore being in power and making this come about?

[WilliamL]

2 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

I did not realize that, was a separation, , but does not the beast exercise the power of the lawless one , to accomplish the same with in the system and power of the evil one

therefore being in power and making this come about?

Rev. 13:1 ... I saw a Beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns... 2 Now the Beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The Dragon [Satan, Rev. 12:9] gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.

Rev. 17:3 I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet Beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 8 ...“The Beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the Abyss and go to perdition.

2 Thes. 2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day [of Christ's Parousia/Presence/Coming, 2:1] will not come unless the apostasy/falling away comes first, and the man of sin [alt. reading, lawlessness] is revealed, the Son of Perdition, 8 ...the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His Parousia/Presence/Coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

Opinions about who the Lawless One, the Son of Perdition, is depends upon one's eschatology. I believe the scriptures teach a Post-Trib, Pre-wrath time of Christ's Coming in the clouds for his Church/Bride, and that the Son of Perdition will be destroyed (literally 'done away with') at this Rapture. The Beast will only ascend out of the Abyss after this, at the 5th Trumpet, and will be cast into the Abyss after the Battle of Armageddon. See below.

Pre-tribbers teach that the Church will be raptured first, and the Son of Perdition is the Beast.

Probably most post-tribbers also believe the Son of Perdition is the Beast, and believe the Rapture takes place at Armageddon. But they can speak for themselves.

For a more complete explanation of what I believe about the Son of Perdition, go here, and scroll down to my  July 7 article "The son of Perdition is a Patsy" : http://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/188354-does-the-man-of-sin-meet-the-requirements-to-be-islamic/?page=6#comment-2236577

[Sister]

On 28/11/2015 at 7:40 AM, SINNERSAVED said:

is he already here? does he come from turkey, rome, or Syria? has he already come on the scene? , or is he still in hiding, or no one really knows?

SINNERSAVED

He's living and in charge of the North, but his roots are from here;

Nahum 1:11   There is one come out of thee, that imagineth evil against the LORD, a wicked counsellor.

Nahum 1:12   Thus saith the LORD; Though they be quiet, and likewise many, yet thus shall they be cut down, when he shall pass through. Though I have afflicted thee, I will afflict thee no more.

Nahum 1:13   For now will I break his yoke from off thee, and will burst thy bonds in sunder.
 

[SINNERSAVED]

On ‎12‎/‎22‎/‎2015 at 4:11 AM, Sister said:

SINNERSAVED

He's living and in charge of the North, but his roots are from here;

Nahum 1:11   There is one come out of thee, that imagineth evil against the LORD, a wicked counsellor.

Nahum 1:12   Thus saith the LORD; Though they be quiet, and likewise many, yet thus shall they be cut down, when he shall pass through. Though I have afflicted thee, I will afflict thee no more.

Nahum 1:13   For now will I break his yoke from off thee, and will burst thy bonds in sunder.
 

Sister where are you getting Nahum from ? are you going through another source ?

[Sister]

2 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

Sister where are you getting Nahum from ? are you going through another source ?

SINNERSAVED

No, It's in the old testament, a small small book, just after Micah and before Habakkuk. 

 

[BlindSeeker]

On 30/11/2015 at 7:01 PM, FresnoJoe said:

Beloved, All Of Those Dinosaurs Who Labored Over Handcrafted Inked Engineering Plates
Know That All Caps Are A-OK

Whereas Many Of Our Young Texting Whippersnappers 
Know That No Caps Are a-ok

And Yet Some Remain Offended

Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. Colossians 4:6

Love, Your Brother Joe

Well put Brother FresnoJoe. Made me smile real big...

[SINNERSAVED]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2015 at 10:22 PM, Sister said:

SINNERSAVED

No, It's in the old testament, a small small book, just after Micah and before Habakkuk. 

 

thank you . if I sneezed I would miss it  lol

[BlindSeeker]

On 22/12/2015 at 6:11 AM, Sister said:

SINNERSAVED

He's living and in charge of the North, but his roots are from here;

Nahum 1:11   There is one come out of thee, that imagineth evil against the LORD, a wicked counsellor.

Nahum 1:12   Thus saith the LORD; Though they be quiet, and likewise many, yet thus shall they be cut down, when he shall pass through. Though I have afflicted thee, I will afflict thee no more.

Nahum 1:13   For now will I break his yoke from off thee, and will burst thy bonds in sunder.
 

Nahum was speaking of Sennacherib the Assyrian king that God used to punished His people, for it was God who was afflicting them for their sins as Nahum clearly states in verse 12. There is an accounting of this in 2 kings and Isaiah

2Kings 18:13 - Now in the fourteenth year of king Hezekiah did Sennacherib king of Assyria come up against all the fenced cities of Judah, and took them. 14 And Hezekiah king of Judah sent to the king of Assyria to Lachish, saying, I have offended; return from me: that which thou puttest on me will I bear. And the king of Assyria appointed unto Hezekiah king of Judah three hundred talents of silver and thirty talents of gold. 15 And Hezekiah gave him all the silver that was found in the house of the LORD, and in the treasures of the king's house. 16 At that time did Hezekiah cut off the gold from the doors of the temple of the LORD, and from the pillars which Hezekiah king of Judah had overlaid, and gave it to the king of Assyria.

Isaiah 10:5 - O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation. 6 I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets. 7 Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few. 8 For he saith, Are not my princes altogether kings? 9 Is not Calno as Carchemish? is not Hamath as Arpad? is not Samaria as Damascus? 10 As my hand hath found the kingdoms of the idols, and whose graven images did excel them of Jerusalem and of Samaria; 11 Shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols? 12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.

Sennacherib had tried to seduced the people into believing he was going to give them better lands than God had if they would yield to him and rebel against Hezekiah, in this he was a deceiver and of the spirit of antichrist. But to say these verses are pointing to a yet to come antichrist is to affix meaning and intent to them from another source than God’s word. We cannot deny biblical history when it fulfills prophecy and must not try to make biblical history future prophecy, otherwise we are wide open to believe anything that comes into our imagination.

Read Isaiah chapters 36 and 37