What really separates christians and denominations ?

[Retrobyter]

On December 16, 2015 at 9:18 PM, Ezra said:

Study the Parables the Kingdom --  of the Sower, the Wheat and Tares, the Woman with the Leaven, and the dragnet which brought up Good Fish and Bad Fish. There are different kinds of soil, different kinds of seed, different kinds of fish, different kinds of servants, and different kinds of stewards.

Hey, Ezra.

Which ones are the "tares?"

[Ezra]

4 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Hey, Ezra.

Which ones are the "tares?"

They are the ones who look like wheat outwardly, but are in fact weeds.  Only God knows their hearts, but Christ said "By their fruits ye shall know them".  There are millions with the label of "Christian" but the inward reality is absent, and they are trusting in either church membership. baptism, good works, sacraments, or something other than the Person and finished work of Christ.

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

5 minutes ago, Ezra said:

They are the ones who look like wheat outwardly, but are in fact weeds.  Only God knows their hearts, but Christ said "By their fruits ye shall know them".  There are millions with the label of "Christian" but the inward reality is absent, and they are trusting in either church membership. baptism, good works, sacraments, or something other than the Person and finished work of Christ.

Amen. We are known by Jesus, and by God for who we really are. 

[Marilyn C]

On ‎16‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 0:07 PM, SINNERSAVED said:

I have been a Christian for a very long time, and we have other Christian denominations , and branches ,

but what really keeps us all from coming to a agreement , and being of one Christian belief,

if we are all calling our selves Christians , and we have non denomination, and calvary , and Lutheran , and Calvinist, and Methodist,

new movement Pentecost ,and seven day ,

what is it, that is separating our differences,  how can we all believe in the same God of the bible , follow Jesus and still not get along,

we follow God and Jesus the son of God, so what makes a real difference here, is it the way we interpret the bible, or we just don't want to agree with other ideas,

if the bible is  a instruction book on the Christian life ,and jewish ways jews and gentiles , then how does this become a stumbling block ?

the bible tells us Jesus is the way and the only way , ,does not everyone in the group I mentioned all follow the same ?

Hi SINNERSAVED,

We need to remember that the denominations (& non den. etc) are all man`s organisations, many developed over centuries, to organise people & meetings. They do not represent the Body of Christ which is an organism, not an organisation. Thus we are looking in the wrong place if you want everyone to come together under a title of the `calathumpions` or whatever. We need to be trusting & believing that Christ the Head of the Body is building & maturing His body by His Holy Spirit.

We are one in the Spirit - `God has set the members, each one if them, in the Body, just as He pleased.` (1 Cor. 12: 18) & `endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.` (Eph. 4: 4) But there is the `unity of faith` what we believe, which is still to come. The Holy Spirit has guided the Body over the centuries into much truth, but there is one great truth to be clarified & then those in the Body will have reached maturity of understanding -`till we all come to the unity of the faith & the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.` (Eph. 4: 13) 

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2015 at 7:07 PM, SINNERSAVED said:

I have been a Christian for a very long time, and we have other Christian denominations , and branches ,

but what really keeps us all from coming to a agreement , and being of one Christian belief,

if we are all calling our selves Christians , and we have non denomination, and calvary , and Lutheran , and Calvinist, and Methodist,

new movement Pentecost ,and seven day ,

what is it, that is separating our differences,  how can we all believe in the same God of the bible , follow Jesus and still not get along,

we follow God and Jesus the son of God, so what makes a real difference here, is it the way we interpret the bible, or we just don't want to agree with other ideas,

if the bible is  a instruction book on the Christian life ,and jewish ways jews and gentiles , then how does this become a stumbling block ?

the bible tells us Jesus is the way and the only way , ,does not everyone in the group I mentioned all follow the same ?

There is nothing wrong with denominations at all.   In fact, denominations are a good thing.   It means that we are not a cult that is forced to believe what has been forced on the collective.  It means that we are free to have different beliefs, for better or worse.   

There was a time when the RCC demanded total obedience from everyone upon penalty of death.   It was a forced unity that was made easier by exploiting the illiteracy and ignorance of greater society.

That's the only way you can have 100% unity.  You have to keep people dumb.  You have to keep them in a place where the "teachers"  will tell them what their doctrine will be.  No one is allowed to deviate from the approved doctrine and to do so will have unpleasant repercussions.  The Bible means only what your teachers say that it means and you will comply, no questions asked.   

Some Christians live in this fantasy where everyone just "believes"  the same way.  Usually a person who has that fantasy assumes that his theology is what everyone would adopt if there was true unity.

 

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

There is nothing wrong with denominations at all.   In fact, denominations are a good thing.   It means that we are not a cult that is forced to believe what has been forced on the collective.  It means that we are free to have different beliefs, for better or worse.   

There was a time when the RCC demanded total obedience from everyone upon penalty of death.   It was a forced unity that was made easier by exploiting the illiteracy and ignorance of greater society.

That's the only way you can have 100% unity.  You have to keep people dumb.  You have to keep them in a place where the "teachers"  will tell them what their doctrine will be.  No one is allowed to deviate from the approved doctrine and to do so will have unpleasant repercussions.  The Bible means only what your teachers say that it means and you will comply, no questions asked.   

Some Christians live in this fantasy where everyone just "believes"  the same way.  Usually a person who has that fantasy assumes that his theology is what everyone would adopt if there was true unity.

 

Hi Shiloh357,

We know by history that God`s Holy Spirit revealed truths of Christ from the word,  truths which had been distorted etc over the years. As truths were revealed afresh, people began to build organisations around them. That is why we have - Lutheran (salvation) Methodists (Holy Living) Baptists (Baptism) Holy Spirit (Pentecostal) etc etc And many more as people centred around a truth. However we know that the Holy Spirit continues to bring the Body of Christ into all truth & thus right across the Body, through every denomination the Holy Spirit moves & reveals more truths of Christ, His character & His purposes. Thus `names` of denominations are mainly that `just a name` for the `water level,` of the Spirit has risen. Ways of doing meetings & different structures of hierarchical leadership are all man`s ways.

However in believer`s lives right across the  Body we see that God`s Holy Spirit is bringing about the unity of Faith. eg, here on Worthy, there are many denominations (& not) represented, yet we find that there is agreement on Salvation, baptism in water, infilling of the Holy Spirit, the understanding of Spiritual gifts & even to some degree a receiving of the 5 fold Headship ministry gifts. The main area of difference is the last truth to be clarified by the Holy Spirit across the Body of Christ is - Eschatology - God`s purposes for the Body of Christ, for Israel & the nations.

So my question to you is - do you believe Jesus when He said -

`when he, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into ALL TRUTH: ......` (John 16: 13)

With man we know that is impossible, but with God it is not impossible.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

[Ezra]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi SINNERSAVED,

We need to remember that the denominations (& non den. etc) are all man`s organisations, many developed over centuries, to organise people & meetings. They do not represent the Body of Christ which is an organism, not an organisation.

While this may be true, we need to be clear that in every denomination there will be genuine children of God (therefore within the Body of Christ) who have been somehow saved by grace (through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption).  If their denomination or local church is going off the rails, they still have a responsibility to deal with that one way or another.  See the letters to the seven churches in Revelation. The Body of Christ consists of all redeemed Jews and Gentiles until the Rapture, regardless of denomination.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Shiloh357,

We know by history that God`s Holy Spirit revealed truths of Christ from the word,  truths which had been distorted etc over the years. As truths were revealed afresh, people began to build organisations around them. That is why we have - Lutheran (salvation) Methodists (Holy Living) Baptists (Baptism) Holy Spirit (Pentecostal) etc etc And many more as people centred around a truth. However we know that the Holy Spirit continues to bring the Body of Christ into all truth & thus right across the Body, through every denomination the Holy Spirit moves & reveals more truths of Christ, His character & His purposes. Thus `names` of denominations are mainly that `just a name` for the `water level,` of the Spirit has risen. Ways of doing meetings & different structures of hierarchical leadership are all man`s ways.

However in believer`s lives right across the  Body we see that God`s Holy Spirit is bringing about the unity of Faith. eg, here on Worthy, there are many denominations (& not) represented, yet we find that there is agreement on Salvation, baptism in water, infilling of the Holy Spirit, the understanding of Spiritual gifts & even to some degree a receiving of the 5 fold Headship ministry gifts. The main area of difference is the last truth to be clarified by the Holy Spirit across the Body of Christ is - Eschatology - God`s purposes for the Body of Christ, for Israel & the nations.

So my question to you is - do you believe Jesus when He said -

`when he, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into ALL TRUTH: ......` (John 16: 13)

With man we know that is impossible, but with God it is not impossible.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

He is still guiding us into all truth, which is an ongoing process we are in at this time.  This will not end until we are in the new heavens and new earth.    Denominations actually have their origin in politics, not theology, per se. 

I just don't see anything wrong with denominations, as they allow people of like mind and faith worship together according to the dictates of their own hearts.

 

[Marilyn C]

31 minutes ago, Ezra said:

While this may be true, we need to be clear that in every denomination there will be genuine children of God (therefore within the Body of Christ) who have been somehow saved by grace (through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption).  If their denomination or local church is going off the rails, they still have a responsibility to deal with that one way or another.  See the letters to the seven churches in Revelation. The Body of Christ consists of all redeemed Jews and Gentiles until the Rapture, regardless of denomination.

Hi Ezra,

I agree that in every denomination there are genuine believers & I also believe that there are genuine believers outside man`s organisations who meet in different ways.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

31 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

He is still guiding us into all truth, which is an ongoing process we are in at this time.  This will not end until we are in the new heavens and new earth.    Denominations actually have their origin in politics, not theology, per se. 

I just don't see anything wrong with denominations, as they allow people of like mind and faith worship together according to the dictates of their own hearts.

 

Hi Shiloh357,

Politics, ay. Well that says it all - connected to the world system of power & control. Is that what you mean?

Marilyn.