"...and every eye shall see him..."

[WilliamL]

12 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

One must be in viewing distance, those on earth.  Christ will return as He went up.  Those who pierced Him was Israel

Yet, this will be the most glorious event ever.  The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords returning to earth as Prophesied. And if this is the case maybe ALL from Adam and Eve and all throughout history whether Believers or Unbelievers, Righteous or Unrighteous , Angels, Fallen or those still in Heaven.  All Creation.  The rocks will cry out.  Just a thought.  They ALL will see the 2nd Coming.

It will not be broadcast.  No power with the two great earthquakes.  People are all in fear.

So if it is not broadcast, yet all see him, then would this be something seen with the natural eyes? If so, then people on the other side of the earth from Jerusalem (according to your view, not mine by the way) would not be able to observe his Coming.

Is this passage therefore relevant?

2 Kings 6:15 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do? 16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them. 16 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

[Last Daze]

33 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

So if it is not broadcast, yet all see him, then would this be something seen with the natural eyes? If so, then people on the other side of the earth from Jerusalem (according to your view, not mine by the way) would not be able to observe his Coming.

Is this passage therefore relevant?

2 Kings 6:15 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do? 16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them. 16 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

And don't forget this:

• Then the Lord opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the Lord standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.  Numbers 22:31

Sometimes we keep kicking the donkey when the problem isn't the donkey.

[Montana Marv]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

So if it is not broadcast, yet all see him, then would this be something seen with the natural eyes? If so, then people on the other side of the earth from Jerusalem (according to your view, not mine by the way) would not be able to observe his Coming.

Is this passage therefore relevant?

2 Kings 6:15 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do? 16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them. 16 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

William

Who said there are people on the other side of the earth.  To visibly see Christ returning to the Mt of Olives one would have to be within a 2000 mile radius of the Mt.  or much, much less.  And why would CNN have a heads up on the 2nd Coming when no one else on earth does.

Do you not know what is really going on with the Seal, Trumpet and Bowl Judgments; and why they are in correct order, and BTW, what area of the earth are being affected by some the these judgments.  It is all there if one looks deeper.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[tigger398]

If bible says every eye. Then it will be every eye, not some. lol

[Ezra]

12 minutes ago, tigger398 said:

If bible says every eye. Then it will be every eye, not some. lol

True.  And we are not called to speculate on the mechanics of how this will occur. Some things are better left to God.

[Omegaman 3.0]

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

Who said there are people on the other side of the earth.  To visibly see Christ returning to the Mt of Olives one would have to be within a 2000 mile radius of the Mt.  or much, much less.  And why would CNN have a heads up on the 2nd Coming when no one else on earth does.

LOL, everyone know is will more likely be Fox New Network, not CNN! Not everyone watched television 24/7 anyway.

What if . . . . 

as lightnng comes from the east and shines even to the west, the glory of Jesus at His coming does the same?  If we want to limit this to the realm of the natural and not allow for the supernatural (though His coming is obviously supernatural), why can't Jesus be visible at high altitude, like higher than the atmosphere when He is visible. People on almost half the earth at the same moment, can see to moon. Certainly the  creator of the moon, can be seen if He wants to be. When He comes, does he come from outer space to the mount of olives? If so, what direction is Heaven from the mount of Olives? Is Heaven directly about Jerusalem, so that Heaven spins and orbits synchronous with the earth? Alternatively, is Heaven just out there, surroundig Earth? Or . . .  maybe heaven is a whole other dimension, not limited to time and space. Could Jesus do an entry into the atmosphere, and blaze across the sky, circumnavigating the globe, gathering the elect, from one end of the heavens to the other, from the four corners, before touching down near Jerusalem?

I do not know the answers to these questions. It is not fitting for me to speculate beyond what the Bible says. This is the primary problem with the pre-trib rapture, the reason why I cannot endorse it. Belief in it, requires speculation, and faith in the speculation. It is why I think, it is the least acceptable of the theories. There are just too many 'fill in the blanks' sort of features. I cannot do it, I just can't!

I have to go with Tigger398 on this point:

" If bible says every eye. Then it will be every eye, not some. lol "

[Montana Marv]

Yes Scripture says every eye will see Him descend to the Mt of Olives.  Yet Scripture also says, He will return, as He left, up out of their site.  He went up, He will come down.  Not side to side, not two loops around the earth.  To view is as an eye witness.  So to be an eye witness one must be within a 2000 mile radius of the Mt or much, much less, say 1000 miles of the Mt.  Now your question will be; how did they all get to within say 1000 or 2000 miles of the Mt of Olives.  So that is the 10 Billion dollar question.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Omegaman 3.0]

Ah well Marvin, ideas in my post were just speculations, examples of how things might occur, not that I believe any of them will describe how it will be. I think your observation about how He will be seen just as He seen leaving, is a good one. However, still on a speculative note, we should not rely on arguments from silence. It does not say Jesus orbits, it does not say that He does not, so either of those aspects is speculation. Is the possibility that He streaks throught the sky, east to east, circumnavigating the globe before He descends through clouds ruled out? It does say He will return the same way, and the way He left, He disappears into a cloud, as I recall. When He returns, he comes:

BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him.

That sentence has interesting elements. from that I would ponder a few things:

• If he is coming WITH the clouds, does that mean He is bringing the clouds along, not just appearing out of them or in them?
• Are the clouds here, literal clouds of water vapor or smoke, or is it metaphoric language for the 'clouds' of people or angels accompanying Him,
• If every eye will see him EVEN those you pierced Him, does that make a literal statement that those who were physically present at his crucifixion will see Him, or is this a metaphor for the Jews or the Romans, or by extension, the sinners He died for?
• If all of the tribes of the Earth will mourn over Him, does that imply that those the world over, even in the South Pacific, opposite of the Mt. of Olives will see Him

I think if we try to get too far into the minutia of details not provided to us, pretty soon we will be speculating about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin!

[WilliamL]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

... we are not called to speculate on the mechanics of how this will occur. Some things are better left to God.

We should not discuss this one single phase of the Second Coming? or do you have a list of other areas we should not discuss?

tigger speaks the common sense meaning of the passage. But as the saying goes, "Common sense is not so common these days." Because most people shape their understandings by their own preconceived agenda, and are therefore blind to anything else. Something which Jesus talked about a number of times.

The common sense meaning of the passage is that every eye upon the face of the earth shall see the Lord coming in the clouds. And seemingly every eye among the dead will also see him. For, as I pointed out earlier, Jesus told the Sanhedrin at his trial that they would see him "coming on the clouds of heaven." Therefore,

On 12/24/2015 at 11:18 AM, Ezra said:

Since this will be a supernatural event, the way that every eye will see Christ will also be supernatural.

 

[thereselittleflower]

William, why does it matter?