Who said , Grace covers all of the law of Moses ?

[1to3]

 

 From what I understand of Gods plan of Mercy and Grace, is that even as we are sinners, God Grace is there to receive us under Gods wing, and His Mercy is there to forgive us without payment or merit (its a free unmerited gift for all those who come to God and ask for forgiveness=Mercy and Grace=welcoming us into His fold. 

Christ Jesus the promised Messiah paid the price -penalty- to buy us back from satan"s hold on us. That is Gods plan of Mercy and Grace in action. 

Mercy= unwarranted forgiveness 

Grace = free gift of salvation into Gods fold. 

If we read the psalms we can see also that God showed His Mercy and Grace to those who seeked God out with a sincere heart and who were willing to follow the 10 commandments over the their own fleshly desires. 

The difference of the New covenant is with the Messiah Jesus having paid the penalty for our sins, so that when we repent to God for our sins by placing our sins on the cross with Christ Jesus. who paid the penalty for our sins to buy us back from satans hold, and than invite the Holy Spirit of God to come make a home in our hearts, we are  inviting the laws of God (the 10 commandments) to be written in our hearts, through the power of the Holy spirit of god, now living in our hearts.. 

it is God plan our Mercy and Grace working in our heart through the Holy Spirit of God living in us, convicting our spirit and working in us to change us(refine us) through the power of the Holy Spirit of God in us, step by step transforming us into the child of God we were always intended to be. 

The difference is the penalty of our sins was paid on the cross when Christ Jesus came forth, so that the commandment could live in our hearts, by the Holy Spirit of God living in our hearts. 

Before Christ Jesus came the Jewish people were living not only from the law of the ten commandments, but of so many other man-made laws that these actually enslaved them more than freed them. 

Christ Jesus, Messiah Jesus, the sacrificial Lamb of God (who takes away the sins of this world) came to free us from the bondage's of sins as well as the bondage's of mans' added -on man made laws. 

It was through God Mercy=undeserved, unmerited forgiveness 

and 

 Gods Grace = undeserved welcoming into Gods family= uniting us back home into Him, through the blood covering of His only begotten Son Christ Jesus who paid the penalty of our sins, and who is our advocate Christ Jesus= our Good shepherd. 

  

Matthew 5:17 

Christ Jesus said: 

17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 

18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished 

  

Hebrews 8: 10 

I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. 

 

Jeremiah 31:33"This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,

" declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

[other one]

why do we have so many of these threads with so similar theories.

[1to3]

 

Who said , Grace covers all of the law of Moses ? 

Answer:

Christ Jesus said it

 

 

Christ Jesus came to fulfill the law, remember He was without sin.

Christ Jesus said that He gave a new commandment and that on these ALL other commandments exist.

That is if you truly loved your neighbor as yourself, all 10 commandments would follow.

 

John 13: 33 34

Christ Jesus said:

33"Little children, I am with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, now I also say to you, 'Where I am going, you cannot come.' 34"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35"By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

Matthew  22 : 37,38,3940

Christ Jesus said:

37  "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind. this is the first and and great commandment

39"The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'

40"On these two commandments hang ALL the whole Law and the Prophets."

 

 (John 14:15-24) 

  Christ Jesus said :

“If you love Me, keep My commandments … 

He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. 

And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him 

… If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him 

… He who does not love Me does not keep My words”

[thereselittleflower]

10 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

you are not correct, for what is in store as part of the prophecies as was spoken , none is completed until heaven and earth passes, so , try again, where are you getting this from,

are you reading a different bible then me, or are you in a different religion ? I see a lot that does not make sense , when its all spelled out ,  ?

The scriptures did not says that they would not be fulfilled until heaven and earth passes.

The word translated "till" in "till the heavens and earth pass" doesn't mean this in the Greek.   Again, here is an example where English doesn't convey the proper sense to us today of what the writers intended.

"till" is:

ἕως (heós) -- till, until 

• as far as, up to, as much as, until.
• ἕως héōs, heh'-oce; of uncertain affinity; a conjunction, preposition and adverb of continuance, until (of time and place):—even (until, unto), (as) far (as), how long, (un-)til(-l), (hither-, un-, up) to, while(-s).

the writer intends this to convey: even going in time as far as the passing away of the heavens and the earth, the law will not pass unless all of it is fulfilled - EVEN IF it takes this long to fulfill it.

To see that this is the intended use of this Greek word in this verse, we have only to look at the same saying in another gospel:

•  Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one tittle of the Law to fail" 

 

The scripture say that heaven and earth will not pass away before all the law is fulfilled, that it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for the law to pass away, but the law will pass away when it is fulfilled.

So this does not make the passing of the law dependent on the passing of the heavens and earth.   This does not say the two happen simultaneously.  It means only what it said.     

And what it said happened. 

The heavens and earth did not pass away before Jesus fulfilled all the law.

 

 Jesus fulfilled all the law.  

Jesus said he came to fulfill all the law:

• Matthew 5:7  Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

If He came to fulfill all the law, then He did fulfill all the law  - otherwise He failed, and christianity is a lie.

To say He didn't is to make the scriptures of no effect.    I don't believe this is what you want to be doing.

 

I provided scriptural proof that the ordinances, the rules and law of Moses, were nailed to the cross:

• Col 2:14

  Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

• word "ordinances" 

• δόγμα dógma, dog'-mah; from the base of G1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical):—decree, ordinance.

•  

• the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment

• https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1378&t=KJV

 

And Paul said:

• Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believes.

 

You are simply misreading the scriptures, reading into them something that is not there.

 

As far as what my religion is, I am christian.

 

 

 

[Spock]

On January 3, 2016 at 10:49 PM, SINNERSAVED said:

the Law of Moses which is the first five books , called the Torah, so when was the Torah put away and Grace of Yashua takes over, ?

do we take one covenant and remove it and completely bring in another, and it wipes all from the first completely out ?

I think this is a Big misunderstanding , and many are reading in too hard to make Grace more then it is ,

for do we even know , how many of the different Laws is talked about in acts alone, one is the ,

law of sin and death , and I believe I am saved by grace for my salvation, of sins and death , but all the rest still stands,

how can anyone say we are covered by Grace , and yet remove the law, ?

I know you will say we cannot live under the law for the punishments are with that, that is not what I am talking about , I am talking everything to be of the law of moses ,

and grace, to cover what it needs to cover, I think many are using it to justify every thing, what do you say ?

My initial thoughts here are this- Jesus entered in a NEW COVENANT (Jeremiah 31), which is making the old covenant (mosaic law) obsolete. Now, I'm not including the 10 commandments here so let's get that out on the record right now. 

The mosaic law was primarily meant for the Israelites at that particular time they were coming out of Egypt and getting ready to march to their promised land. God was calling them out to be a different nation and set them up with a lot of laws which they were obviously not going to be able to follow line by line.  

Im sure when the Jews realize this they will definitely appreciate Yeshua much more than they do now, which is not much. 

Matthew 5 says Jesus came to FULFILL the law, and he did, and by being sinless he was qualified to take the punishment we deserved on the cross. The power of the law is now nullified.

Well, I said enough for now. What do you think? 

Spock out

[SINNERSAVED]

Spock, this is what I think ,

I think the same way  I am not here to bring up lets follow moses and forget Grace, God forbid, I think many are misunderstanding the whole view I have observed as a saved and spirit filled believer, for with out the spirit you cannot be saved for the spirit has come ,and the truth is given, the wisdom of God is also given by the working of the spirit and the word of God for by hearing the word of God, brings us to the repentance of our sins and we are saved through the belief of the faith in Yashua, for his work on the cross was not in vain but the final sacrifice of all that man could ever think about doing which , now bridges the Gap of man and God, so we cross this bridge to get to the other side, I believe we can all agree with this, now , what the grace has covered , has not been done away with ,

for as the commandments were the school master to prove to man that there was no way at all any could follow these and be righteous , and so the this is the position that man is sinful and this is how it is measured  and how it guides us to know what sin really is ,

so with that said , I have stated this many times, even though we are saved by grace , what is it we are saved of and what is the law that we use as a discipline to place our obedience with God , for Grace will cover the wages of sin and death which was not possible by the moses , and the law of moses shows us our sinful state ,before a holy and righteous God, and only one way the way the truth and the life through the son of God is this possible , and any works of our own is as filthy rags and not a thing that we do as working to get  it is from God alone and we cannot boast, for we can do nothing unless it is given from above,

we are stuck in these sinful bodies until the purifying of the Gods word and testing has made us as pure as gold, taking all the  bad out , and in the end what ever we go through even if it be persecution , tribulation or death , it is regenerating us, and cleansing us , for the white robes, that the blood will  make as white as snow,

but there is the obedience to the word of God , that if God spoke something  ,that he was against and is a abomination to Him, would we not want to not do that , for it would be like saying I will do 50% of Gods word but I cannot get my self to do this or that, ,this is a selfish move I believe, you when I see scripture of God spoke this is what happens to them that are not listening to my word and instruction, then are we really being doers of the word , or just hearers , are we abiding in Christ that we are crucified with , or talking cheap , but refuse to do what scripture has said, for honestly what we are able to do , to present our selves in holiness and love of God by abstaining to do what everyone else is doing and not drawing lines, there is no separation from believe and non believer, it is not works  or religious speed bumps , but pure honor and respect to His calling,

 we are not very discipline, I believe that the Christian today , or so called religious person today is arrogant and prideful and unwilling to humble themselves , and to break the chains of the world , we are raised and brought up in the mans traditions from infant  , and we say this is right for it is how we are groomed, but we read the bible , and see there is wrong , but do we want to correct the wrong, no we decide its okay to go against what we are instructed and say its a God in this Book and it has no effect on your personal life,

 we are all guilty of turning our backs on God for we love to Sin , that what we are and how we are taught from young, but God sys be the called out ones, get out of those churches and mans traditions that honor me with there lips , but there hearts are far away , get out now , and stand on the rock I have layed with my own blood and the cross,

we have been deceived and I see it right here , for the spirit is with me and my eyes are open, and there is a few that get it , but many are stuck in this easy and hip culture of what the world considers right and wrong, for God said do not have anything to do with the world , for if you love the world and all that's in it , then you are my enemy, and that goes for the  one that may think they are believers and live in the world and continues to sin,

I am following anything that God says he hates I hate , what He said is good I say is good, we have out smarted ourselves for p[ride of the self  is openly wicked, and pride goes before a fall, we are not humble anymore, we say things we don't believe, and that is we lie not only to our selves but to God also ,.

so use your smarts and skills to prove another r wrong when they want to please God by following His word, but cover it up with covenants an grace for it covers everything , and all I have to do is nothing and sit around and let God do all the work, how lazy we have become, this alone is a shame and I pray that my letter convicts your hearts and  ,provokes you to surrender completely and humble your selves, from what the world calls Christianity , for it starts with you , and satan has already blinded the churches ,

[1to3]

If we look at all the people God used and transformed, they were all at fist sinners. The difference with those sinners was that with all their sins, they still came to God and asked God for His Mercy and Grace.

Even in their imperfections, God worked in them and helped to transform them into the the men/women of God they slowly became.

In their  fallen sin state God found them and because of their placing their faith in God, God helped them and transformed them into the men/women of god they became.

Abraham, Isaac , Jacob, Moses, all sinned and made mistakes, yet God kept helping them and transformed them into men of God.

It is a process.

 

the difference between then and now is the New covenant that was fulfilled on the cross by Christ Jesus.

Christ Jesus said,  that He has to go so that the Helper, could come into their hearts and work in their hearts so to teach them and lead them from within. This for all who call for Gods plan of Mercy and Grace.

John 14: 15,16,17, (Christ Jesus promises the Holy Spirit of God to come make a home in their hearts)

John 16:7

…6"But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8"And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;…

 

Christ Jesus said in John 15:16
15"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.…

 

The laws and man made religious add on laws, those man -made add-on laws no more are in effect, such as having to sacrifice animals for our sins.

At the time of Christ Jesus crucifixion, the temple of the Holy of Hollies was torn in two, that was a place where they would go and place a sacrificed animal for redemption of their sins.

That place of Hollies, was ripped in half at the time of Christs crucifixion.

after Christ Jesus fulfilled Gods plan of Mercy and Grace  on the cross at Calvary,

we were no longer are in meed of being circumcised outwardly  as belonging to Christ Jesus, our hearts have been inwardly circumcised, Romans 2 : 15

"who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness and between themselves their thoughts accusing them or excusing them,"

 

 

Christ Jesus came so that the Law of God be fulfilled for the Jew first and then the Gentile=all that is not Jewish.

Romans 1: 16

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

 

 

[Ezra]

On 03/01/2016 at 8:49 PM, SINNERSAVED said:

and grace, to cover what it needs to cover, I think many are using it to justify every thing, what do you say ?

No one said (or says) "grace covers all of the Law of Moses". Here's what the Bible says (Jn 1:14): For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

What does this mean?  That God gave the Old Covenant to Moses, but Christ replaced it with the grace and truth of the New Covenant.  Does this mean that nothing in the Torah is now valid?  Not at all. The Ten Commandments have been revealed now as the two greatest commandments, which can be distilled into the Law of Christ (which is the Law of Love). So what is now obsolete?  See the epistle to the Hebrews (and other NT Scriptures). Some portions of the laws in the Torah are indeed obsolete, but some are not.  We need to discern what is what in light of the New Testament.

[Spock]

Good words Ezra.  I think some people like black and white better than gray.  

[other one]

You had better include the ten commandments for you can live by the ten commandments your whole life and go to hell never breaking a single one of them.