Who said , Grace covers all of the law of Moses ?

[Guest Thallasa]

1 hour ago, other one said:

It's rather tacky to laugh at someone for thier beliefs.....   especially if they are different than yours.

 

you really need to hang around and read for a while to get to know people here before laughing at them

 Laughing ? Where ? At who ?

[SINNERSAVED]

3 hours ago, Thallasa said:

Well done Other One ,the Two commandments He gave us  two commandments,"Love the Lord thy God  with all your heart ,and your neighbour as yourself .

Yes ,these two cover all of the 10 of the O.T.  I believe Jesus was teaching us How to be a Christian in our hearts ,in everyday life ,and that  the legalism of trying to remember the rules actually puts a stumbling block to Love . Instead we have a List to be consulted .

When we follow the two commandments it becomes automatic to us to behave and think like God's children . Jesus knew that Rule followers are dangerous, for the Love of God and their fellow beings, is not engraved by the Holy Spirit on theirsouls ,as yet . They see themselves as Superior ,but this is an outward show .

blessings to you Thaillasa and firestormx,   this will be a long reply, but I want to be clear,

Thaillasa, thank you for your heart felt concern of telling me about how Grace is done the law of Moses away, and I do appreciate your input,and love in this to share, and show me what it was , along with firestormx but I have to say that this is what you think to be true to your self and firestormx, and I do see what you are both saying, and if you read scripture from a none jewish view , many will see it the same way ,

please if I may with no disrespect to you  I want to tell you how I come to my understanding and conclusion on this, for you have told me what I already know from a American view, and reading it for what it appears to look like,

I am very strong and passionate, and fully understand the finished work of Jesus our lord and savior has done on the cross for you and me , for with out the son of God there would be no remission of sins , no forgiveness of our sinful and unrighteous state, that we are due to the fall in the garden, so I am well aware much more then many give me credit for, I brought this topic up to be able to see where we are in our standing with God and the scriptures as we see them in our own individual eyes,

we both can read a scripture and come up with two different answers and this is by what we think it to say , and so when this happens how do we try to correct this,

well first of all, we need to be reading the bible looking at it ,from a jewish perspective ,

second we must be willing to be open minded to not hold on to teachings given to us in church and traditions past down by men ,

third we need to interpret this scripture and the word of God with scripture and the word of God, as in scripture will interpret scripture,

we cannot add or take away from scripture , or assume or make up what we want it to say or say it means this by placing our own belief in it, for scripture can mean what we want it to mean if we work at it and pull scripture out of its context,

we also need to look at scripture from the old ways of the times of Jesus and the times of Moses according to the customs and traditions of the old ways , and as God was with the people holding there hands and giving His instructions and commands to the people , for the God of the old is the God of the new, and many will not put it together for they think that Jesus just came on the scene when He became a lamb of sacrifice,  Jesus said He was ( I AM ) and so before noah and Abraham He was , in john it states that in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God,

man cannot live by bread alone, but by every word of God, so God is also God , he is truth , for the word of God is truth , and anything else would be a lie, unless it comes from God  jesus and the Holy spirit , we follow nothing else, and we bow to no man , call no other father

follow the commandments of God, seek God and let the spirit dwell with in us and the spirit will lead you , for our rightful service being saved by the payment on the cross it was paid in full for all that we have done , and all sin once in for all, from the past present and future, and if we sin which is not intentional , then we have a mediator  or advocate  to God, for us and His name is Jesus ,

so by laying this foundation so you know I am not just spitting in the wind , but I do know and follow God in spirit and in truth , I will tell you now how I have come to say that grace has not covered moses law, completely remember we must look at it through the jewish customs, and know that Gods word does not come back void, nor does it say one thing and then changes to justify ones point, God forbid that to happen , and if God went back ion His word then, there would not be truth in Him that we seek today , and we know that He is truth . 

so Jesus the son of God says I come not to abolish the laws and the prophets, but to fulfill, so Grace is not come to remove anything or replace anything but to do one thing, what the old covenant with moses by the law could not do ,was to atone once in for all ,and to destroy sin and death , by the power of the cross,

the law of sin and death has been done away with ,and covered by Grace, which now brings us into the light of salvation for all , if we surrender and do not reject the gift of God the lamb of sacrifice, but has not done away with the ten commandments, but now is written in our hearts and mind, the law is placed in us, and when we have believed and place our faith  In Him that is able to save then we are saved it is grace by God , and not of our selves that we can boast, so nothing we do can save us over another, or do in works over another, I understand the works part, is not what gets us to heaven , only the grace ,

now this did not take away the unclean from the clean animals ,in no way , for God in genesis  deut, lev,. acts, Isaiah, all claims to the unclean animals and Gods word ,instruction and  abomination to this is written clear, in scripture, remember the customs and the ways of old, we cannot say scripture took this away , grace covered sin and death that the law could not do ,

so I follow for my self the dietary law, for it is still valid, in my eyes for it was instructed and explained about in scripture, and if God Himself said this is unclean then it will and shall remain unclean,

for many are saying I am following moses law , and going against grace, this is not true at all, I am following the right way in my own conviction to be pure and pleasing in the eyes of God, just like I am trying to not sin , as everyone is trying to do , in there everyday life,

so if you say you are covered by grace and forgiven of sin , do you go out and just continue to sin ? God forbid, this is in the book of james, no you would not , would that be a conviction to you that you are following in the flesh and have made a mind decision to stop , ? yes  ?

so you are following the ten commandments the best you can which is in two commandments  that jesus gave us to follow , yes and I agree with this .

so is this by works of the flesh , yes  it is from not doing and trying not to do something that god hates and you know you are not to do , is works, period....period,

but hear me out, before you get upset that I am teaching works to heaven , I am not,

for by faith in God and what we believe we have works evident and the evidence of works by faith is the spirit working with in us, so we are producing fruits of the spirit by our works which is a direct result of faith and belief in God ,and following of Jesus .so I am not in error here ?

I am following what was never taken away and by doing this I am abiding and obeying the law that was not taken away the dietary law only ,

and I still follow the two commandments that Jesus says all the law and prophets hang on these two commandments  God first , and love thy neighbor ,this is correct way of following what the scripture is saying,

and if you disagree and want to hold on to what many are saying then go ahead, but this for me ,will keep me in a more discipline and obeying spirit , so that when the times of testing comes, I am already controlling my actions and making the right choices to build my faith to be stronger for the times ahead, to use my body as a vessel for Gods use, and to condition my mind and body,,,,,, is the true following and faith in God,

if following God is a burden, and makes you to be uncomfortable around others in this world ,...... then are you really walking with God,?

for God should not be a burden , and we shall not be ashamed of the gospel,

for the gospel ,it is life to the believer and death to the sinner that rejects Him     I hope and pray that I have been able to shed some light ,and give you truth ,

for I love God, and this is not by works I do this , but by faith and belief, to honor God with my body and mind and all that I am, where is your heart set today ...blessings and peace to you

 

[Guest Thallasa]

1 hour ago, SINNERSAVED said:

blessings to you Thaillasa and firestormx,   this will be a long reply, but I want to be clear,

Thaillasa, thank you for your heart felt concern of telling me about how Grace is done the law of Moses away, and I do appreciate your input,and love in this to share, and show me what it was , along with firestormx but I have to say that this is what you think to be true to your self and firestormx, and I do see what you are both saying, and if you read scripture from a none jewish view , many will see it the same way ,

please if I may with no disrespect to you  I want to tell you how I come to my understanding and conclusion on this, for you have told me what I already know from a American view, and reading it for what it appears to look like,

I am very strong and passionate, and fully understand the finished work of Jesus our lord and savior has done on the cross for you and me , for with out the son of God there would be no remission of sins , no forgiveness of our sinful and unrighteous state, that we are due to the fall in the garden, so I am well aware much more then many give me credit for, I brought this topic up to be able to see where we are in our standing with God and the scriptures as we see them in our own individual eyes,

we both can read a scripture and come up with two different answers and this is by what we think it to say , and so when this happens how do we try to correct this,

well first of all, we need to be reading the bible looking at it ,from a jewish perspective ,

second we must be willing to be open minded to not hold on to teachings given to us in church and traditions past down by men ,

third we need to interpret this scripture and the word of God with scripture and the word of God, as in scripture will interpret scripture,

we cannot add or take away from scripture , or assume or make up what we want it to say or say it means this by placing our own belief in it, for scripture can mean what we want it to mean if we work at it and pull scripture out of its context,

we also need to look at scripture from the old ways of the times of Jesus and the times of Moses according to the customs and traditions of the old ways , and as God was with the people holding there hands and giving His instructions and commands to the people , for the God of the old is the God of the new, and many will not put it together for they think that Jesus just came on the scene when He became a lamb of sacrifice,  Jesus said He was ( I AM ) and so before noah and Abraham He was , in john it states that in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God,

man cannot live by bread alone, but by every word of God, so God is also God , he is truth , for the word of God is truth , and anything else would be a lie, unless it comes from God  jesus and the Holy spirit , we follow nothing else, and we bow to no man , call no other father

follow the commandments of God, seek God and let the spirit dwell with in us and the spirit will lead you , for our rightful service being saved by the payment on the cross it was paid in full for all that we have done , and all sin once in for all, from the past present and future, and if we sin which is not intentional , then we have a mediator  or advocate  to God, for us and His name is Jesus ,

so by laying this foundation so you know I am not just spitting in the wind , but I do know and follow God in spirit and in truth , I will tell you now how I have come to say that grace has not covered moses law, completely remember we must look at it through the jewish customs, and know that Gods word does not come back void, nor does it say one thing and then changes to justify ones point, God forbid that to happen , and if God went back ion His word then, there would not be truth in Him that we seek today , and we know that He is truth . 

so Jesus the son of God says I come not to abolish the laws and the prophets, but to fulfill, so Grace is not come to remove anything or replace anything but to do one thing, what the old covenant with moses by the law could not do ,was to atone once in for all ,and to destroy sin and death , by the power of the cross,

the law of sin and death has been done away with ,and covered by Grace, which now brings us into the light of salvation for all , if we surrender and do not reject the gift of God the lamb of sacrifice, but has not done away with the ten commandments, but now is written in our hearts and mind, the law is placed in us, and when we have believed and place our faith  In Him that is able to save then we are saved it is grace by God , and not of our selves that we can boast, so nothing we do can save us over another, or do in works over another, I understand the works part, is not what gets us to heaven , only the grace ,

now this did not take away the unclean from the clean animals ,in no way , for God in genesis  deut, lev,. acts, Isaiah, all claims to the unclean animals and Gods word ,instruction and  abomination to this is written clear, in scripture, remember the customs and the ways of old, we cannot say scripture took this away , grace covered sin and death that the law could not do ,

so I follow for my self the dietary law, for it is still valid, in my eyes for it was instructed and explained about in scripture, and if God Himself said this is unclean then it will and shall remain unclean,

for many are saying I am following moses law , and going against grace, this is not true at all, I am following the right way in my own conviction to be pure and pleasing in the eyes of God, just like I am trying to not sin , as everyone is trying to do , in there everyday life,

so if you say you are covered by grace and forgiven of sin , do you go out and just continue to sin ? God forbid, this is in the book of james, no you would not , would that be a conviction to you that you are following in the flesh and have made a mind decision to stop , ? yes  ?

so you are following the ten commandments the best you can which is in two commandments  that jesus gave us to follow , yes and I agree with this .

so is this by works of the flesh , yes  it is from not doing and trying not to do something that god hates and you know you are not to do , is works, period....period,

but hear me out, before you get upset that I am teaching works to heaven , I am not,

for by faith in God and what we believe we have works evident and the evidence of works by faith is the spirit working with in us, so we are producing fruits of the spirit by our works which is a direct result of faith and belief in God ,and following of Jesus .so I am not in error here ?

I am following what was never taken away and by doing this I am abiding and obeying the law that was not taken away the dietary law only ,

and I still follow the two commandments that Jesus says all the law and prophets hang on these two commandments  God first , and love thy neighbor ,this is correct way of following what the scripture is saying,

and if you disagree and want to hold on to what many are saying then go ahead, but this for me ,will keep me in a more discipline and obeying spirit , so that when the times of testing comes, I am already controlling my actions and making the right choices to build my faith to be stronger for the times ahead, to use my body as a vessel for Gods use, and to condition my mind and body,,,,,, is the true following and faith in God,

if following God is a burden, and makes you to be uncomfortable around others in this world ,...... then are you really walking with God,?

for God should not be a burden , and we shall not be ashamed of the gospel,

for the gospel ,it is life to the believer and death to the sinner that rejects Him     I hope and pray that I have been able to shed some light ,and give you truth ,

for I love God, and this is not by works I do this , but by faith and belief, to honor God with my body and mind and all that I am, where is your heart set today ...blessings and peace to you

 

 Thank you SS . Yes we must be prompted from our hearts as God has commanded ..

[Willa]

On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 at 4:12 AM, de1929 said:

are you from word-of-faith movements ? i remembered Kenneth Copeland when i saw some of your verses.... 

So you are telling me that Copeland can quote Scripture?  I wouldn't know because I have boycotted his preaching since the 70s.  Word of faith?  There is an Episcopal church 1 block from me and a Word of Faith church 4 doors away From my house.  Were they the only churches available I don't think I could endure the false teaching in either one.  I have Lutheran CessatIonIst roots with Conservative Baptist fundamentalism.  

Why don't you like the truth of God's Word ?  Do you plan to answer me according to your bigotry toward certain mind sets?  I have a smattering of both.  Put that in your pipe and smoke it! lol   Sola Scriptura , Sola fide, Sola gratia.   The just shall live by his faith.  We are saved by grace through faith--it is a gift of God.    Luther taught me to believe and rely on the Christ revealed in God's Word.  Thus I learned to live the Scriptures and apply them to my life.   I also don't ignore or explain away scriptures that don't agree with dogma like some cessationists do.  So I am neither a calvinist nor arminian.  I am a Lutheran fundamentalist, if you will..  I prefer to be called a Christian, but Jesus Freak would do.  

Now would you care to reveal your personal bias So I also can consider the source?

[SINNERSAVED]

Grace is Given and Grace always was, the law, is not gone, and it is not removed and covered by grace, for where the law could not complete , Grace was fulfilled, but this does not excuse us from the law, and I do not see , why people say that the grace is taken over in place of the law, for we have the laws or commandments now written in our hearts and minds, so if we follow the word of God and the bible, How do we take away any of it ?

 this is not what the truth is, and many are saying which I don't understand, if we are under the law, then we go to Hell, for grace, is over shadowed the law, and we curse our selves, if some one could help explain this, to me, for it makes no sense, at all, we were given the law and the commandments, and then new testament came, and so we throw out the old and bring in the new, this is not what the bible or the scriptures tell us,

any ideas and comments to back this up , I would like to learn , and see what and how anyone came up with this?

 for all is valid, the law the commandments,  gods instruction, and His grace, where there is Sin, Gods grace abounds even more, so we cannot be cursed by following the law of old, for it is the base and foundation, that is set for the blessing and the grace, to stand on, all scripture is for instruction, and for our understanding, and none to be removed, or done away with,

 Jesus tells us He did not come to abolish the law, or the prophets, and nothing is to be change ,added or removed, of the word of God, given to us, by God, and Jesus came to fulfill, not take away

He really made it more intense, by saying if you think it, it needs to be dealt with , in stead of just actions,

 so it is a mind, and thought process, that we need to deal with

 for we usually will think out a problem or situation prior to anything on it, and if God knows my thoughts and my heart, then I believe , everyword of God that we say is truth is truth ?, and so if our minds are focused, then our hearts will be focused also , and the bible is true, all of it, and not just some of it, I don't think we would throw away the old testament and just, live the new, ? for the old, tells us future and about the new,

blessings and peace,,

[saved34]

As pertaining to God's eternal law, in Christ we are Justified from all things pertaining to the law. Even the ceremonial aspects of the Law which were nothing more than types or foreshadows of the true which is Christ. Our lives are not governed by an external law, but by the indwelling Spirit himself.              As far as the law is concerned I am already dead, executed with Christ when he hung on the tree and raised with him to a new life.

[SINNERSAVED]

we have the law and the commandments given for a reason, to show us and to guide us in what Sin really is , and how we should know right from wrong, and for the Grace and mercies we are given as sinners , we are blessed to have a God, that loves us, for it was the Father and the Son, that has made a way for us, to be the people of His kingdom and one nation, of the saints,

 for Grace came where the law could not change us, and now the Grace of God, is able to change us from mortal to immortal, from condemned to free, and has released our chains of bondage, of the law only of Sin and Death, everything else, continues as it was set forth, for Gods ways is higher then our, ways, and we follow and obey Him, by following the commandments and the laws given to His people, there is no difference between the jews and the gentile,

for the tribes of Israel and Judah is filled with Gentiles, also, and we are all one in the sight of God, all covered by the blood of Yashua,

 and so we have Grace where it was needed  and the law, where we can be guided, for the scriptures of God, is for instruction, and for the building up of the people of God, and nothing has gone away , or abolished, except the ceremony law of sacrifice, for our lamb of God has nailed this to the cross once and for all,

amen ....blessings, God is good,

[Ezra]

the Law of Moses which is the first five books , called the Torah, so when was the Torah put away and Grace of Yashua takes over, ?

The Torah was never “put away”.  The Old Covenant (which is only a part of the Torah) as relates to sin and sacrifices for sin was “put away”, and replaced by the New Covenant, which is in the blood of Christ. Since there can be no more sacrifices for sin, the Old Covenant is abolished in that regard. Also the feasts, the Levitical Priesthood, the Tabernacle, the Temple, the dietary laws, and many other observances are all obsolete.

do we take one covenant and remove it and completely bring in another, and it wipes all from the first completely out ?

You have a very serious misunderstanding.  “We” do not do anything.  It is God and Christ who do what they do, and tell us to follow their commandments.

I think this is a Big misunderstanding , and many are reading in too hard to make Grace more then it is ,

You have another very serious misunderstanding. Grace can NEVER be made “more than it is”. Grace is the sum total of all God’s dealings with mankind, and without grace there would be neither Old Covenant nor New Covenant, but only eternal Hell.

for do we even know , how many of the different Laws is talked about in acts alone, one is the ,law of sin and death , and I believe I am saved by grace for my salvation, of sins and death , but all the rest still stands,

You do not have the authority to make up your own theology as you go along.  It is God who has decided what is abolished and what is still binding. So to question God’s gracious ways and changes is to rebel against God. That’s exactly what the problem was with the scribes and Pharisees. They made a “hedge” around the Law which was NOT AUTHORIZED by God

how can anyone say we are covered by Grace , and yet remove the law?

God can and does. Are you questioning God?

I know you will say we cannot live under the law for the punishments are with that, that is not what I am talking about , I am talking everything to be of the law of moses ,

Well you are simply challenging God and that will lead to some very serious problems. God says that the Old Covenant is finished.  But you wish to dispute that and revive it? Does that mean you know more than God about grace?

and grace, to cover what it needs to cover, I think many are using it to justify every thing, what do you say ?

You have no clue about the finished work of Christ and what it means to God.  What I say is that you are treading on dangerous ground and very thin ice.

[SINNERSAVED]

Hello Ezra, are you stating facts or opinions or scripture here , and is it me you are addressing on this points of interest that, you have made, ?

 okay , if you are talking to me, then that's great lets break it down, and if not, then  we are good, so are you addressing me, or just making a general statement,  ???

[saved34]

Sinner saved, you cannot mix the two economies (law and grace), either you are under the curse of the law to continue in all things written in it (not just the ceremonial or the ten commandments) but the entire law, or you are under the grace of God( unearned, undeserved, unmerited favor). Christ the righteous ended law as a requirement from God for mankind.

 

           " Romans 10:4 NIV
Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. "

God literally credits the full righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ to you. That is imputation. That is how God can justly declare us wretched sinners righteous. God's eternal and righteous law and demands have been satisfied or fulfilled.       

We are Justified by faith, the law has nothing at all to do with our salvation or sanctification. There is no faith at all in following the law. It was only given to show man his utter depravity. The law gives sin its strength and is an economy of condemnation not salvation.