Do you think that being baptised will change someone?

hmbld · February 1, 2016

10 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Remember somewhere in the NT Gospels((Matthew/Mark/Luke/John)) it is written that those who did not get immersed DID NOT ACCEPT JESUS - they REJECTED HIM.

Could you find this please? There is one who was by Jesus's side who was never baptized, yet did accept Him?

RustyAngeL · February 5, 2016

On 1/20/2016 at 6:50 PM, Brittany said:

I mean, if someone really wanted to change but had trouble doing so. If they were trying, but then they kept failing because they didn't have enough willpower to resist worldly temptations, do you think that if they were baptized, they would have enough incentive to obey God's word better?

The changing comes from within. It's the power of the Holy Spirit that changes a heart. We will always be changed by what we choose be it good or bad. After I was saved I wanted to be baptized because I choose to follow Jesus. Being baptized is following Christ and when you follow what He wants you to do you will always be changed.

Omegaman 3.0 · February 6, 2016

On 1/20/2016 at 4:50 PM, Brittany said:

I mean, if someone really wanted to change but had trouble doing so. If they were trying, but then they kept failing because they didn't have enough willpower to resist worldly temptations, do you think that if they were baptized, they would have enough incentive to obey God's word better?

Personally, I do not think it will have any effect whatsoever. We change, because it is God who has changed us on the inside. We do not get baptized so that we can change, we get baptized, in obedience to Jesus because we have been changed.

Now, I am not saying that a person cannot be baptized, and then realize some behavioral changes, a person can go to therapy, or to AA meetings, or marital counseling, etc, and have changes in their behavior. Those changes however, are psychological, motivational, self-discipline type changes, that can happen. Real change, however, happens because we have been born from above, when God works in us.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

James' point there is that true faith, saving faith, is accompanied by works. It is the natural outgrowth of salvation. If we think we have faith, and are saved, but are still sinning and lacking in good works, we have reason to wonder, it we have really been saved. This is not to say that the works, our good living brings salvation, but that our salvation, changes us, and we seek God more, and sin less.

These changes happen at different rates for different people, but I suspect that it is not God, who is the slowpoke, it is that we do not surrender to His will but stubbornly cling to our own ways.

More than baptism, I would suggest that the person you spoke of cultivate a love of God, seek His will, pray a lot, read the Bible, hang around with people who are good examples, full of wisdom and spiritual maturity, who show the fruits that accompany salvation, in their lives.

I have been a Christian for over 30 years now, and the person you are describing, that one who has difficulty shaking off sin, describes me for my first 22 years as a believer. I tried to repent, I wanted to repent, and would even manage to repent, for a while, then always fell back. it was a very frustrating cycle. One day though, it finally changed, I was through pleading with God to fix me, through trying to fix myself. I was given the understanding, that I had already been repaired, been washed of my sins, not by baptism, not my effort, but by a sovereign act of God.

Oddly, I became more obedient, when I just relaxed a little, and learned what is was like to truly submit my will to His. I am not perfect, but I am so much better than I was. The battle was over. I understood that my problem, was not my failing at fighting sin, but that I had not yet abandoned my practice, of fighting against God.

One thing that really immersing oneself in prayer, Bible, and good company does, is that it gets God on you mind more. When this is the case, you realize (not just intellectually but practically) that God is with you all the time. Would a believer sin, with Jesus sitting there right next to him or her? Not likely. So, a bit part of it comes down to practicing the presence of the Lord. If one takes their eyes off of Christ, they forget who they are and become who they were.

I hope that is helpful.

1to3 · February 7, 2016

Amen Omegaman 3.0 !

But I have this question to all.

Did all the disciples get baptized?

including Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Christ Jesus?

And when a person repents is their repentance worldly or Godly?

And do they understand the difference?

Those who still struggle with their shortcomings, is it because their repentance is worldly instead of Godly?

For me, like you omegaman 3.0 it has taken me a long time to wake up. It has been a gradual improvement, but a slow one.

I have questioned and asked God the question during my times of struggling with sin, if I was just one of those doomed to die and go to hell, because no matter

how I try, I keep making mistakes. I eventually realize my sin, and truly I don't like it, I even hate myself for it, but even so, Like Paul said in Romans 7:I5-20 can't say that I am completely free from sin, even though love the Lord and seek him daily.

My change has been a gradual one.

True repentance: Godly Grief versus worldly grief?

I believe that I have had Godly grief, but contemplating from another topic , it has made me question myself more deeply.

I feel truly badly, if Judas Iscariot was dammed for what he did.

From what I read from certain responses about Judas, is that the bible said Judas repentance was worldly repentance instead of Godly repentance.

Personally, I have not found myself to be any better than him in terms of falling back in my own sins.

But I have and still do repent to God, I hope it is not worldly but Godly repentance, And because this topic of worldly repentance versus Godly repentance was brought up in another topic about Judas Iscariot, it has brought to my attention the difference of those two very different kinds of repentance, that I had not considered before.

However, I truly believe that I truly want to be with God now and forever,(I always even really, even since I was a child) I really do not want to go to hell and be separated from God.

God showed to me a glimpse of what it is to be separate from His presence as a wake up call 19 years ago.

And yes, it was a wake -up call, and I awoke to follow him. Yet, I still have set backs( my understanding far from being complete), and than 13 years ago, God allowed a circumstance in my life to happen to once again awaken me and this time it was clear that if I was to truly follow Him, I had to give up certain ways of living. And so I got rid of things, and yes the more i got rid of those things= gave them up on the Cross , the more free I became. I also developed a thirst to read Gods word, and wanting an even further deeper relationship with Him. Learning to trust Him was also a process, but it has grown and has never stopped.

I still struggle with other aspects of my personality flaws, and these I do bring to God and ask Him to remove them and help me to overcome them, but as I write this, i am still flawed with my shortcomings that still need to be overcome.

Am I going to hell because of these flaws I still have?

I do not want to be like Judas Iscariot, but in many ways, I have not been better than him either. I can't speak for his heart and apparently the Word has, but I can only hope that my own prayers to God are sincere of heart, with a Godly repentance and with a true willingness to change.

I have been baptized in water and also receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but my walk has been an upward climbing experience where the view is getting clearer with each step upwards that I take.

I have been a baby in Christ for some time, but I am not longer the baby in Christ that I was the year I got baptized. I have grown up a little more and can eat and digest more solid foods from His Word and with greeter understanding, that I can now better apply to my life.

The Holy Bible says

Matthew 6:33

…32"For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.

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33"But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

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34"So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Proverbs 16:2

All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.

1 Chronicles 28:9

"As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

I Samuel 16:76

When they entered, he looked at Eliab and thought, "Surely the LORD'S anointed is before Him." 7But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

As sinners seeking redemption we need to keep seeking God with a sincere heart and a willingness to change and become the children of God we were always supposed to be.

post · February 7, 2016

i think my answer to this question depends on another question -

are we talking about the earthly ritual of being dunked in water while someone asks you if you agree with the gospel, and says a few words?
or are we talking about actually becoming immersed into the name of the Lord?

certainly people go through all kinds of outward religious ceremonies & rites without any inward effect.
but if God washes you, then you are clean indeed, and if He renews you, then you are certainly a new thing.

post · February 7, 2016

i should put it this way:

not everyone who is circumcised in the flesh, by human hands, is set apart.
but everyone who is circumcised in the heart, by the Master's hand, has been sanctified.

so it is with this washing.

JohnD · February 17, 2016

On 1/20/2016 at 6:50 PM, Brittany said:

I mean, if someone really wanted to change but had trouble doing so. If they were trying, but then they kept failing because they didn't have enough willpower to resist worldly temptations, do you think that if they were baptized, they would have enough incentive to obey God's word better?

1. The deck is stacked against us in that we all have a fallen sin nature.

2. We can discipline / train our bodies and our minds (willpower) to a certain extent...

3. But failure in most cases is imminent.

4. Only through the spirit can we adequately contain the will and deeds of the flesh.

And failure even then is problematic... for even "the best of us" (if we can use that expression accurately) tend to volley back and forth between our flesh and our spirit.

Baptism was never meant to be more than a symbol and cannot prevent moral failure.

The way you live by the spirit is to first believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation (John 3:16-18). Then start growing in spirit from that beginning. Pray, read and study God's Word the Bible, seek the tutelage of the Holy Spirit, this will strengthen your spirit by thus feeding it. You exercise it by doing good deeds in the name of Christ Jesus and by seeking the spiritual rather than the physical especially when the physical is making demands of you... this will discipline your flesh and the cravings from lust, food, greed, self-indulgence etc.

It is a process not a one time action like getting wet in a baptistery.

TrevorL · February 20, 2016

Greetings Brittany,

On 20/1/2016 at 11:50 AM, Brittany said:

I mean, if someone really wanted to change but had trouble doing so. If they were trying, but then they kept failing because they didn't have enough willpower to resist worldly temptations, do you think that if they were baptized, they would have enough incentive to obey God's word better?

I would suggest that a proper understanding of the gospel will motivate a believer to be baptised Acts 8v5,12, and this will be an initial strengthening. This will be followed by a gradual growth in the things of God if we listen to the Word of God and seek to grow in this, and thus lead to a life of dedication and holiness towards God. If we are beset by particular sins, then there are some examples for example stealing and anger given by Paul in Ephesians 4v20-32, and his suggestion of gradually overcoming these faults by a process of sublimation or replacement. Nevertheless the believer is beset by many trials and failures, but God can strengthen us to overcome.