The beast that goes into Perdition

[thereselittleflower]

Let me say this again here -  you said in another thread that Jesus asked God to give Him the glory He had with the Father before the creation of the world

He did not "ask" 

He commanded.

• Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

"glorify" is a verb.   In the Greek this word is 

δοξάζω doxazō

Tense: Aorist
Voice: Active
Mood: Imperative

 

Notice the mood  - IMPERATIVE

• The imperative mood corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. 

 

This was no request other one.

 

Jesus COMMANDED God the Father to to glorify Hin with the glory He had with the Father before the world was.

 

So what is this about Jesus, God the son, being beneath God the Father?

 

 

 

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

Also other one, in the same prayer, Jesus says this:

• Jhn 17:21

  That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

The Father in the Son, the Son n the Father.

 

Sounds like equality to me.

 

 

 

[MorningGlory]

16 hours ago, Spock said:

I too feel closer to flower on this one.  The fact that all three are God, to me, means they are equal in essence.  I know Jesus emptied himself for a time being and I know even he prayed to the father while he was the son of man,  but before then, doesn't the word say all things were created by him and through him?  I'm pretty sure they are talking about Jesus in the context, not the father. 

And when he ascended, he regained his position in the Godhead and share in the glory that father receives.  Read this in Rev 22:

3No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 

That sounds pretty equal to me. Doesn't it to you? 

Having said all that, I think the father and Jesus may have different roles, but still one God. 

Spock out

Strange answer to my question, Spock. 

[Serving]

9 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

Also other one, in the same prayer, Jesus says this:

• Jhn 17:21

  That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

The Father in the Son, the Son n the Father.

 

Sounds like equality to me.

 

 

 

Who is greater, you or YOUR word?

YOU are ..

And when YOUR word speaks FOR YOU, who is greater?

Neither, for when YOU speak, we hear YOUR word and KNOW it is YOU speaking .. YOU are NOT obedient to YOUR word, but YOUR word is obedient to YOU.

And though YOUR word can be EQUAL to YOU when YOU speak, YOUR word is still YOUR WORD and comes from WITHIN YOU.

YOU do NOT come from YOUR word, but YOUR word most definitely comes FROM YOU .. and YOUR word is IN YOU and YOU are IN YOUR word.

So who is greater, YOU or YOUR word?

YOU are of course.

Just because God gave HIS WORD a BODY, does not mean His word is greater than Him neither, neither does it mean HE is mute, no, because that word IS HIS still, and though they can be EQUAL, just like YOUR word is EQUAL to YOU when YOU SPEAK YOUR word .. it is just that YOUR word can NEVER be greater than YOU either, because YOU do not COME from YOUR word, YOUR word comes from YOU.

It is just that God CAN and DID give HIS WORD a BODY which is what confuses everybody .. God the Father did NOT DIE, that is illogical, almost blasphemous, God's WORD that HE made flesh DIED, but now HIS WORD has RETURNED to HIM once more, and His word is SPIRIT, because God is A SPIRIT.

 

[thereselittleflower]

1 hour ago, Serving said:

Who is greater, you or YOUR word?

YOU are ..

And when YOUR word speaks FOR YOU, who is greater?

Neither, for when YOU speak, we hear YOUR word and KNOW it is YOU speaking .. YOU are NOT obedient to YOUR word, but YOUR word is obedient to YOU.

And though YOUR word can be EQUAL to YOU when YOU speak, YOUR word is still YOUR WORD and comes from WITHIN YOU.

YOU do NOT come from YOUR word, but YOUR word most definitely comes FROM YOU .. and YOUR word is IN YOU and YOU are IN YOUR word.

So who is greater, YOU or YOUR word?

YOU are of course.

Just because God gave HIS WORD a BODY, does not mean His word is greater than Him neither, neither does it mean HE is mute, no, because that word IS HIS still, and though they can be EQUAL, just like YOUR word is EQUAL to YOU when YOU SPEAK YOUR word .. it is just that YOUR word can NEVER be greater than YOU either, because YOU do not COME from YOUR word, YOUR word comes from YOU.

It is just that God CAN and DID give HIS WORD a BODY which is what confuses everybody .. God the Father did NOT DIE, that is illogical, almost blasphemous, God's WORD that HE made flesh DIED, but now HIS WORD has RETURNED to HIM once more, and His word is SPIRIT, because God is A SPIRIT.

 

 

 

I think you have things a bit mixed up here.

 

My "word" is not a person.

 

Are you saying The Word who was with God and Is God and became man is not a person?

 

 

[Serving]

6 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

 

 

I think you have things a bit mixed up here.

 

My "word" is not a person.

 

Are you saying The Word who was with God and Is God and became man is not a person?

 

 

God's word became flesh is what I am saying .. not God Himself, but HIS WORD became flesh exactly as it is written .. the One Jesus prayed to did not become flesh because He remained seated in heaven whilst His word was on earth speaking in His Name.

I was only using your word as an example to help you understand, I thought that was pretty obvious.

[WilliamL]

On 2/6/2016 at 5:19 PM, Shar said:

Jesus had the glory and oneness with God before the world began.  Remember, He emptied Himself of His former glory to take on the human form and live amongst us.  Phil.2:6  "Who, being in the very nature, God.......but made Himself nothing, taking on the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness......humbled Himself and became obedient to death."   Jesus did this to complete their plan of salvation from the beginning.

Using the NIV can get you very confused. "Who, being in the very nature God..." The word is morphe/form; nature is a whole different thing than form.

The Word came "in a [there is no "the" in the Greek] form of God..."

There is no biblical evidence that the Word was called by the name Jesus before the Word incarnated.

But these posts have gotten way too far from the topic, which is about the beast that goes into perdition. So no more on this sideline from me, unless someone wants to start a separate string.

[thereselittleflower]

2 hours ago, Serving said:

God's word became flesh is what I am saying .. not God Himself, but HIS WORD became flesh exactly as it is written .. the One Jesus prayed to did not become flesh because He remained seated in heaven whilst His word was on earth speaking in His Name.

I was only using your word as an example to help you understand, I thought that was pretty obvious.

 

 

So by saying The Word is not God Himself, you are saying that Jesus is not God?

 

 

[FresnoJoe]

On 2/3/2016 at 2:02 AM, n2thelight said:

Okay let's go to Ezekiel

Ezekiel 28:12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the King of Tyrus, and say unto him, 'Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty."
 

Ezekiel 28:13 "Thou hast been in Eden the Garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the Sardis, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created."
 

Ezekiel 28:14 "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire."

Now we know this one in Eden has to be Satan, and not Adam, for a cherub has never lived in the body of a man. Back in the thirteenth verse there are ten precious stones mentioned , and each of these stones are on the breastplate of the of the high priest. Before Satan's fall, he sat in an extremely high position, of responsibility.
 

Ezekiel 28:15 "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."
 

Ezekiel 28:16 "By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."
 

Ezekiel 28:17 "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of the brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee."
 

Ezekiel 28:18
"Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."

Ezekiel 28:19
"All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more."
 

The above verses speaks about satan,and if you notice he has been sentenced to death,and called a man

 

I don't know who told you that angels can't die,as satan shall and all who followed him

 

Now I'll help you out again

 

Isaiah 14:13 "For thou hast said in thine heart, `I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:"

This is the "morning star" Lucifer that is speaking here.

 

Isaiah 14:14 "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the MOST HIGH." This is still this fake morning star Lucifer talking.

 

Isaiah 14:15 "Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit." 

 

Isaiah 14:16 "They that see thee shall shall narrowly look upon the, and consider thee, saying. "Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;" 

 

Notice again he(satan) is called a man

 

Now let's zoom to Thess

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

 

II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

No man will pretend to be God but satan,and again he is called a man

The "Son of perdition" is Satan and Isaiah just told us this very same thing. Remember, the temple of God is on mount Zion, and "on the side of the North". This person sitting there is sitting in God's seat, pretending to be God: "Showing himself that he is God."

 

Do you know what Jesus said about this very thing. Jesus called it in Matthew 24:15, the very same thing that Daniel called it in Daniel 9:27; "the Abomination of desolation". A more correct translation in the "James Moffatt translation Bible" is called "The abomination by the desolator".

 

"Satan claiming to be God" is the abomination, and "he" [Satan] is the desolator, for the entire world will believe him; except for God's elect, and all those who have the seal of God in their minds [foreheads]. The sealed of God have their gospel armor on, and they are ready to face Satan and his system in the spiritual warfare.

 

If you still can't see it,just put it on the shelf...............

The Father

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:17

Of The Son Of Man

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Daniel 7:13-14

~

The Father

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 8:44

Of The Son Of Perdition

I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. John 5:43

Beloved, Prehaps This Will Help
Prehaps Not

Love, Your Brother Joe

[FresnoJoe]

On 2/5/2016 at 0:19 PM, WilliamL said:

Jesus was a son of Adam (as well as a son of God). Jesus was not in heaven "always." The Word was, but the Word was not incarnated before Jesus was born. Therefore this statement of yours is based upon a false premise.

If Jesus had such power from eternity, then the Psalm would not say,

Psalm 110:1 The LORD said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Isaiah 44:6 (King James Version)

~

"I'm coming soon! I will bring my reward with me to pay all people based on what they have done. I am the A and the Z, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.  Revelation 22:12-13 (GOD'S WORD® Translation)

~

The Power Of

Now Peter and John were going up to the temple at the hour of prayer, the ninth hour. And a man lame from birth was being carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple that is called the Beautiful Gate to ask alms of those entering the temple. Seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple, he asked to receive alms.

And Peter directed his gaze at him, as did John, and said, “Look at us.” And he fixed his attention on them, expecting to receive something from them. But Peter said, “I have no silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk!”

And he took him by the right hand and raised him up, and immediately his feet and ankles were made strong. And leaping up he stood and began to walk, and entered the temple with them, walking and leaping and praising God.

And all the people saw him walking and praising God, and recognized him as the one who sat at the Beautiful Gate of the temple, asking for alms. And they were filled with wonder and amazement at what had happened to him. Acts 3:1-10 (English Standard Version)

My God

But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples were saying to him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”

After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, “Peace be with you.” Then He said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.” Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.” John 20:24-29 (New American Standard Bible)

~

What A Fascinating Discussion

Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”

At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!”

Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.”

So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” Then the man got up and went home. When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to man. Matthew 9:1-8 (New International Version)

Talking Jesus Jesus Jesus

Then said Jesus to them again, Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd gives his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep, and flees: and the wolf catches them, and scatters the sheep. The hireling flees, because he is an hireling, and cares not for the sheep. 14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

As the Father knows me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. John 10:7-18 (American King James Version)

All Day Long

But God proves His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8 (Berean Study Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe