Could America (NYC) be the great harlot...

[Marilyn C]

Hi WilliamL,

Such horrors, a gradual eroding of the truths held. We know the Apostle Paul spoke of this before he died -

`For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. Therefore take heed to yourselves ....for I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.` (Acts 20: 27 - 30)

But praise the Lord by His Holy Spirit He has led the Body of Christ thus far into His truth & we know He will accomplish the final `unity of faith.`

However in our discussion of `abominations,` we need also to include all men, not just Christendom.

`For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness & unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power & Godhead, so that they are without excuse,.......

they....changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man - & birds & four footed beasts & creeping things. Therefore God  also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonour their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, & worshipped & served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever.` (Rom. 1: 18 - 25) 

Marilyn.

 

 

[WilliamL]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

....in our discussion of `abominations,` we need also to include all men, not just Christendom.

`For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness & unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power & Godhead, so that they are without excuse,.......

they....changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man - & birds & four footed beasts & creeping things. Therefore God  also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonour their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, & worshipped & served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever.` (Rom. 1: 18 - 25) 

A deft attempt to change the focus. But the topic is: what city is the great harlot of Rev. 17?

Rev. 2:20 Notwithstanding, I have a few things against thee because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel;
or "thy wife Jezebel", as the Complutensian edition and Syriac version read; the name of King Ahab's wife, who seduced him... By her is meant the apostate church of Rome, comparable to Jezebel, the wife of Ahab; as she was the daughter of an Heathen, so is Rome Papal the daughter of Rome Pagan; and as she was the wife of Ahab, and therefore a queen, so the whore of Babylon calls herself; and as Jezebel was famous for her paintings, so the church of Rome for her pretensions to religion and holiness, and for the gaudiness of her worship; and as she was remarkable for her idolatry, whoredoms, witchcrafts, and cruel persecution of the prophets of the Lord, and for murder, and innocent blood she shed; so the church of Rome, for her idolatrous worship of images, for her whoredoms, both in a literal and spiritual sense, and for the witchcrafts, magic, and devilish arts many of her popes have been addicted to, and especially for her barbarities and cruelties exercised upon the true professors of Christ, and for the blood of the martyrs, with which she has been drunk; and as Jezebel stirred up Ahab against good and faithful men, is has this church stirred up the secular powers, emperors, kings, and princes, against the true followers of Christ: and the end of both of them is much alike; as scarce anything was left of Jezebel, so Babylon the great, the mother of harlots, shall be cast into the sea, and be found no more at all...

...and to seduce my servants to commit fornication;
to deceive such who called themselves the servants of Christ, and draw them into the commission of spiritual fornication, which is idolatry; as the idolatrous worship of the Mass, and of images and saints departed...

http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/revelation-2-20.html

[Marilyn C]

Hi WilliamL,

Now you said - A deft attempt to change the focus. But the topic is: what city is the great harlot of Rev. 17?

I was not trying to do a `deft` move & why would I as it serves no purpose except to be deceptive. I was just clarifying a detail of the OP.

`Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Prostitutes & of the Abominations of the earth..` (Rev. 17: 5)

You believe that Rome is the city & the RCC is the religion. So I ask you again how is Rome with the RCC religion responsible for the abominations of the earth?

Are they responsible for the abominations of the Jews?

Are they responsible for the abominations of the Moslems?

Are they responsible for the abominations other religions have done?

 

Marilyn.

 

 

[other one]

I think that if the world was in a position for us to know this, it would not take us 8 pages of talk to come to a consensus.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Spock,

`Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Prostitutes & of the Abominations of the earth.......The woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.` (Rev. 17: 5 & 18)

You know that I believe Babylon is the city that will eventually house the Great Harlot. As I`ve said before the Global Leader, whose nationality is Assyrian, (Iraq & Syria) is called the king of the North, (from the region of Ancient Assyria, Iraq & Syria) & specifically the king of Babylon, (Iraq).

Now I have also been thinking upon the first city of Babylon (Babel) & if it relates to the final capital city. So here are my thoughts –

We know that Babylon/Babel was where mankind set out to make a `names` for themselves.

`Come, let us build ourselves a city, & a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth. But the Lord came down to see the city & the tower which the sons of men had built.....

So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of the earth, & they ceased building the city. Therefore its name is called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth; & from there the Lord scattered them abroad over the face of the earth.` (Gen. 11: 4 – 9)

A `name,` Gk. Word, `onoma,` authority & `onomai` renown, to derive advantage from.

 

Even though God spread mankind abroad, that desire for authority & renown, has always been in man`s heart. Thus the different ethnic groups developed their own culture, religious practices. These gave them `a name, renown & authority.`

So it is that I see all these cultural/religions are coming together (but still distinctive) under one banner of the `Cultural Organisation of the United Nations.` Even though this vehicle is situated in New York City, I see that scripture tells us it will eventually go to Shinar, Iraq, Babylon, where it will be `set` on its own base.

`This is Wickedness! And he thrust her down into the basket (Ephod - measuring / economic)...Where are they carrying the basket? And he said to me, “To build a house for it in the land of Shinar (Babylon); when it is ready, the basket will be set there upon her own base.` (Zech. 6: 8 – 11)

 

This indicates to me `when it is ready,` (timing) & `its own base,` that all the religions of the earth will return to the base from which it started. The desire for a name, renown & authority I believe, will come to a head in the rebuilt city of Babylon.

It is there that God will finally judge the `fruit` of what has come out of man`s rebellion together against God at Babel, (Babylon).

The `fruit`- prostitution, (all different religions), & abominations, ( all manner of Wickedness)

 

This sits with me as going full circle to judgment.

Marilyn.

 

[WilliamL]

10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

You believe that Rome is the city & the RCC is the religion. So I ask you again how is Rome with the RCC religion responsible for the abominations of the earth?

Are they responsible for the abominations of the Jews?

Are they responsible for the abominations of the Moslems?

Are they responsible for the abominations other religions have done?

And what are the abominations? Asked and bilically answered. Do Moslems have them? No. Jews? No.

8 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

 

This indicates to me `when it is ready,` (timing) & `its own base,` that all the religions of the earth will return to the base from which it started. The desire for a name, renown & authority I believe, will come to a head in the rebuilt city of Babylon.

 

Babylon is at bare minimum at least a decade from being a real city, not just a tourist town. So you see the End Times as still quite some time distant?

And this part of Iraq is Shia Islam: what chance is there that it will change so dramatically that it will welcome "all the religions of the earth?" So again, do you see the End Times as being still a good while away?

[Sister]

On 3/2/2016 at 8:14 AM, Spock said:

 

 

 Revelation 18:2   And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
 

Revelation 18:4   And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
 

Hi Marilyn

Just a simple question?

When God told us to come out of Babylon, does he mean to come out the UN headquarters?  Are God's people there?

The UN has 193 Countries.  The end time beast has 10 leaders acting "as kings".  After the UN has served its purpose It's more than likely the UN will be done away with and replaced.  The scriptures say that the beast with 10 kings and the False Prophet work together.  The False Prophets headquarters will be ISRAEL, Jerusalem.  Iraq does not fit, nor Islam as a whole, nor Rome, nor NYC.  None of them.

  Daniel 11:45   And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
 

[Marilyn C]

13 hours ago, Sister said:

 Revelation 18:2   And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
 

Revelation 18:4   And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
 

Hi Marilyn

Just a simple question?

When God told us to come out of Babylon, does he mean to come out the UN headquarters?  Are God's people there?

The UN has 193 Countries.  The end time beast has 10 leaders acting "as kings".  After the UN has served its purpose It's more than likely the UN will be done away with and replaced.  The scriptures say that the beast with 10 kings and the False Prophet work together.  The False Prophets headquarters will be ISRAEL, Jerusalem.  Iraq does not fit, nor Islam as a whole, nor Rome, nor NYC.  None of them.

  Daniel 11:45   And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
 

Hi Sister,

A good question there, sis. Now I do believe also, that the Global Leader (A/C) will set his headquarters up in Jerusalem, (as per Dan. 11: 45. as you said), however I see this as after Babylon is totally destroyed.

As to the `Come out of Her...` I see that the `Cultural Organisation of the United Nations,` is the vehicle that preaches the moral code that all religions think will bring them `peace,` without having to stop their brand of religion. `Come out..` I believe means we are not to join, be friends with, partner with, the world`s belief that `together we can transform the world.` Religious organisations even now are partnering with the Cultural organisation, driven by a false sense of guilt & expectation that they can transform the world -get rid of poverty, have equal rights for women, different races, class, etc. However in partnering they are not allowed to preach the gospel.

Remember what Jesus` Holy Spirit tells us through James -

`Adulterers & adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship (partnership) with the world is enmity with God?` (James 4: 4)

 

Thus I see it refers to belief -

1. Are we being driven by the world`s belief to try & transform the world,

2. OR are we believing God, & being drawn to Him, know that it is He, who transforms people.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2016 by Marilyn C

[Marilyn C]

Hi WilliamL, Here are some excerpts from the International Herald Tribune. You may find them interesting. Unesco intends to put the magic back in Babylon

By Jeffrey Gettleman The New York Times FRIDAY, APRIL 21, 2006

Babylon. Its name has had a magical ring since time immemorial.

 

 Iraqi leaders and UN officials ........are working assiduously to restore Babylon, home to the Hanging Gardens, one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. They want to turn it into a cultural center and possibly even an Iraqi theme park.

 

No one is saying it is going to happen any time soon, but what makes the Pollyannaish project even conceivable is that the area around Babylon is among the safest in Iraq, a beacon of civilization once again in a land of much chaos.

 

Ancient Babylon, celebrated as a fount of law, writing and urban living, sits just outside the modern city of Hilla, about 100 kilometers, or 60 miles, south of Baghdad. Hilla is neither haunted by Sunni insurgents nor overwhelmed by Shiite militia and, while it is home to both Shiites and Sunnis, it has not been afflicted by the sectarian violence that has paralyzed so many other parts of Iraq.

 

Emad Lafta al-Bayati, Hilla's mayor, has big plans for Babylon. "I want restaurants, gift shops, long parking lots," he said. God willing, he added, maybe even a Holiday Inn.

 

 

The UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization is pumping millions of dollars into Babylon and a handful of other sites. It has even printed a snazzy brochure to give to wealthy donors. "Cultural tourism could become Iraq's second biggest industry, after oil," explained Philippe Delanghe, a United Nations official helping with the project.

 

 

Then Saddam Hussein arrived. And if anyone had big Babylon plans, he did.

 

He started in 1985 with a project that was part restoration, part new construction and all ego. He imported thousands of Sudanese laborers - Iraqis were tied up with the Iran-Iraq war - to build an ancient-looking palace right on top of Nebuchadnezzar's original one. Walls more than 12 meters high and stamped with Saddam's name replaced the stumpy mounds of biblical-age mud. To be fair, Saddam did shore up Processional Way, a wide boulevard of ancient stones, and the Lion of Babylon, a black rock sculpture about 2,500 years old.

 

After the first Gulf War, he commissioned a modern palace, again over some ruins, done in the pyramidal style of a Sumerian ziggurat. He called it Saddam Hill. In 2003, he was about to begin construction on a cable car line stretching over Babylon when the U.S. invasion got in the way.

 

George, who was field director for Babylon in 1986, said he remembered once scraping a few inches beneath the topsoil and unearthing a "wonderful, little plate."

 

 "One day millions of people will visit Babylon," he said. "I'm just not sure anybody knows when."

 

(Ref. Some excerpts from the International Herald tribune.)

 

And some of this was 30 years ago!  Note the `Cultural Organisation of the United Nations` is a key player in this scenario. Also it is home to both the Sunni & Shiites factions of Islam, an important point.

So I believe, like the city of Dubai `down the road,` in the Persian Gulf, which relies on tourism, Babylon will also be not only an attraction, but the main destination for tourists, traders, bankers, fashion, etc etc.

We`ll just have to `watch this space.`

Marilyn.

 

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi WilliamL,

Now to the Great Harlot who is in the great city. If, as you say that it is RCC in Rome, then how do these scriptures match up.

`Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Prostitutes & of the Abominations of the earth.`(Rev. 17: 5) Note not just the abominations of the RCC.

`And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.` (Rev. 17: 18) I don`t think the Moslems would agree that the RCC reigns over them.

`And in her was found the blood of prophets & saints, & all who were slain on the earth.`(Rev. 17: 24) And that speaks of people, even before there was a RCC.

 

Marilyn.