Who is The 7th Kingdom Beast (and 8th) of Rev?

[Eoreris]

The (one who is) is Obama (Now)  - Something will happen to him before Jan 20th 2017 and someone (Biden) will be sworn in as president for a (short) time to continue out his term until Jan 20th 2017 for the (8th king) to be enthroned..  This eighth king,s first name by the dictionary means (World rule) and is the (Name of blasphemy) mentioned in revelation. World rule - the name can only belong to God,s Christ is why it is blasphemous..  This (man) also say,s he has never repented and that if he ever did something not right that he would consider it..He also just appeared on TV as a god..With a huge bright screen behind him he walked out in sillouette turning so his profile could be recognized as he walked out as a god.. He has most of the christian vote.. this is his plan   This is a blasphemy as only Jesus was the only man on Earth who needed no repentance. So this fully fills the prophecy that this man shall (sit) making himself out as as God,s Christ. (In Christian eyes seen as a rock star)  This man will also be eventually possessed by another man,s soul  (The one that comes up from the abyss)  His first name too means (World ruler)  and he was 2nd of the 7 heads and was wounded but lived..His name also adds up to six hundred and sixty six if you count all the letters of the names of every king of his nation up to his...  These 2 and Satan will gather a coalition of military to try and fight the coming invaders of Earth but they will be destroyed without even a hand command lifted by the one who (will) be the eternal World ruler...  When you see something happen to (Obama) and the (Short) term 7th king rules until this Eight king is enthroned you will know this is true. 

Edited July 20, 2016 by Eoreris

[Diaste]

It amazes me that more people are not too interested in this particular discussion. I see this topic as the precursor to the return of Jesus and nothing could be more revealing than to know the enemy coming at us before the return of the Lord. This last kingdom, the beast kingdom, the beast(or antichrist) is what we are going to be delivered from at the coming of Jesus. I know many don't believe that but its true; Jesus is coming, but before that, the beast. In the below passage the Almighty put his own people under the rule of Babylon in Nebuchadnezzar's day.

Jeremiah 27

11 But the nations that bring their neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, and serve him, those will I let remain still in their own land, saith the Lord; and they shall till it, and dwell therein.

12 I spake also to Zedekiah king of Judah according to all these words, saying, Bring your necks under the yoke of the king of Babylon, and serve him and his people, and live.

13 Why will ye die, thou and thy people, by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence, as the Lord hath spoken against the nation that will not serve the king of Babylon?

14 Therefore hearken not unto the words of the prophets that speak unto you, saying, Ye shall not serve the king of Babylon: for they prophesy a lie unto you.

15 For I have not sent them, saith the Lord, yet they prophesy a lie in my name; that I might drive you out, and that ye might perish, ye, and the prophets that prophesy unto you.

So the Lord is saying to his own people to submit to the King of Babylon or the Lord himself will send sword, famine, and pestilence that they perish. Further the Lord is saying that the prophets are lying when they tell the people not to submit to this coming condition.  Pretty much the same thing that's happening today with all the false prophets proclaiming we do not have to submit to the truth of the coming calamity that is the reign of the beast.

We see several things here: The Lord's servant is Nebuchadnezzar. The Lord is putting all the nations and kings of the earth under the rule of Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon. The Lord is promising peace for those who willingly submit to this decree. The Lord further promises death and destruction, by His hand, of those who do not  submit, including His own people. The Lord is saying not to listen to the prophets that say, "Do not submit." because they speak lies. 

The trouble here for the people that do not submit to the all powerful leader of the world the Lord has established is they rebel against the Almighty himself. In the above passage refusing to submit to Nebuchadnezzar is the same as rebellion against God and listening to the prophets is the same as believing lies, as the Lord says he did not send those who prophesy, "Ye shall not serve the king of Babylon:"

It's no different today. 

The above passage is analogous to what we see today with Pretrib in contrast to the truth of scripture. In both instances God is telling us to trust Him. Submit to the rule of Babylon and I will give you peace. Submit to the truth of the fiery trial of the end of the age and I will save you. Believe the lies of the prophets that say you will not serve Babylon and I will send terrible punishment. Believing the lies of the prophets of Pretrib means you don't trust the Lord to save and deliver and will endure the punishment that comes from God.

Some will say the above passage is meant for Israel and since we are the church none of the above applies.  Read Romans 11. They forget that we are grafted into the original people of God, the Jews and Israel. We are not a separate group. In fact we were nothing until the grafting occurred. The NT calls the Jews, "...the natural branches.." Everyone grafted in the the good olive tree came from "...a wild olive tree..." We have been added to the good olive tree. That means that everything promised to Israel and the Jews is ours, both punishment and glory. As a people of God we cannot exist without the nurture of the natural branch. We were taken from another tree and grafted in to a new tree. That new tree gives us life as a pruned branch cannot survive without the nourishment of the tree it's grafted into. To separate the grafted branch from the mother tree means the grafted branch receives no nourishment and dies. The Jews are also a part of the good olive tree being the natural branches, to conclude with this those in belief, whether Jew or gentile are part of the good tree. The big difference is one that seems to be ignored; The Jews are the natural branches and we of belief in Jesus are unnatural and added to the good tree.

Meaning all the promises fulfilled and calamity meted out are shared equally.

 

[BlindSeeker]

35 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

You forgot one group, Islam. The Ottoman Empire ruled over the land of Israel far longer than any other empire. They are the "one to come" from John's point of view. The antichrist will come from Islam, for he is called the Assyrian.

Except Israel which "was... was not" at  the time and was waiting to be "yet is" again during the Ottoman Empire.

All the beasts empires are directly correlated to Israel, it's people and the Holy City.

[BlindSeeker]

3 hours ago, Abdicate said:

I'm just a simple country man. I don't understand your words. Everything is about Israel. Prophecy is not for private interpretation and the 400-year old belief should have been re-examined on 9/11, Gen 12:3.  

 

Revelation 17:8 - The beast that thou sawest was, and is [was] not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is [was] not, and yet is.

The beast, which is the eighth, that rises out of the sea in Revelation’s chapter 13, is directly connected to Israel, which also “was, and is not, and yet is.” Because the prophecies pertain to “Israel, it's people and the Holy City,” there would be no prophetic manifestation of the beast until after Israel was reborn in 1948. Therefore, because the Ottoman Empire was prior to Israel’s rebirth in 1948 it cannot be the fulfillment of the prophecy... IMHO

However, I too am just "a simple country man" and find myself not in the same boat of not "understand[ing] your words." What do you mean "Prophecy is not for private interpretation and the 400-year old belief should have been re-examined on 9/11, Gen 12:3?" 

[Spock]

It's been a while for me, so I will have to review what has been said, but here is one problem I have with the people who advocate the Ottoman Empire being the 7th kingdom.  See Rev 17:

 

10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

 

Did you notice it said "but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while"?

Spock's question: the Ottoman Empire ruled over Jerusalem for a VERY long time after Rome. As you know, the Crusades were partly because they were ruling Jerusalem and the Christians didn't like it. Then the Ottoman Turks took over Constantinople ain 1453 and didn't break up until 1924.  In other words, they had Mid East domination for hundreds of years. How could anyone interpret this as "a little while"?  Am I missing something here or misinterpreting Rev 17:10?  I'm all ears.

 

thanks,

Spock

[Diaste]

16 minutes ago, Spock said:

It's been a while for me, so I will have to review what has been said, but here is one problem I have with the people who advocate the Ottoman Empire being the 7th kingdom.  See Rev 17:

 

10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

 

Did you notice it said "but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while"?

Spock's question: the Ottoman Empire ruled over Jerusalem for a VERY long time after Rome. As you know, the Crusades were partly because they were ruling Jerusalem and the Christians didn't like it. Then the Ottoman Turks took over Constantinople ain 1453 and didn't break up until 1924.  In other words, they had Mid East domination for hundreds of years. How could anyone interpret this as "a little while"?  Am I missing something here or misinterpreting Rev 17:10?  I'm all ears.

 

thanks,

Spock

I don't think it's an issue if we understand, "There are 7 kings..." to mean 'kings' and not kingdoms.  Rev 17:10 is speaking to a succession of kings in an empire. Any empire that lasts as long as either Rome, Islam, the Mongols or the dynasties of China or Japan will have many kings.  In the case of Rome there is uncertainty as to which kings and when. If we take the "one is" to mean the ruling Caesar at the time of John's vision we have to ask; which one and when? Did John write Revelation in 70 ad or 90 ad? Depending on the date everything changes. If the later date under Vespasian then there had been 13 Caesars, not the right number. If Nero, from the 70 ad date, we still surpass the correct number as the 2nd from Nero, or the eighth in line, did not fulfill the many prophecies of the beast, and many more Roman kings followed.

Here is a very telling bit of information on the current leader of ISIS:

the Bahraini cleric Turki al-Bin’ali, cites a saying attributed to Muhammad that predicts a total of twelve caliphs before the end of the world. Bin’ali considers only seven of the caliphs of history legitimate. That makes Baghdadi the eighth out of twelve..."

https://newrepublic.com/article/119259/isis-history-islamic-states-new-caliphate-syria-and-iraq   Page 10, paragraph 2

This fits Rev 17:10 perfectly. Baghdadi would be the eighth, and is of the 7. Why? Because of the lineage. Baghdadi is of the correct tribe, so he says, of the first four, 'rightly guided caliphs'. Who then, would be the 5th-7th? No idea. Who is the sixth that 'is'? No idea. The short lived 7th? Again, no idea. My search of these previous 7 caliphs of Qurayshi descent has been difficult and fruitless so I have no timeline. If I was to come across this information I suspect I would find that not only does Baghdadi fulfill the "...eighth, and is of the 7..." clause, the line of previous Caliphs would fulfill the rest of Rev 17:10.

 

[Spock]

Disaste,

Thanks, but your reply is confusing.   You haven't told me who the 7th head is.  I believe the 8th is of the seven though. 

So, are you saying you interpret these heads as individual men, not empires?  Could Mohammed be the 7th? Could he be considered a KING? 

Edited September 19, 2016 by Spock

[Spock]

On September 10, 2016 at 7:53 PM, Abdicate said:

You forgot one group, Islam. The Ottoman Empire ruled over the land of Israel far longer than any other empire. They are the "one to come" from John's point of view. The antichrist will come from Islam, for he is called the Assyrian.

I could buy this interpretation but Islam has ruled over Middle East for a very long time.  Yet, Rev 17 says the 7th King will rule for a "short space."

i wonder......could this be talking about MOHAMMED?  He ruled for a short space. I believe from 620-632 and then he dies.  If Rev 17 are talking about KINGS (individual people, not empires) could it be Mohammed?  Could he be considered a KING? 

And then the 8th King will be of the seven, he will be Islamic, which makes him of the 7th. 

What do you think? 

Spock

 

Edited September 19, 2016 by Spock

[WilliamL]

6 hours ago, Spock said:

I'm all ears.

Whaddya expect from a Vulcan!

But to get back to the subject, all this searching around for 8 human kings/rulers is totally missing the point, as I and Last Daze and others have already pointed out. The 7 kings are spiritual rulers/powers over human kingdoms, and are not human kings at all. The 8th is fallen spirit that will "ascend out of the Abyss" (Rev. 17:8), because fallen angels are the ones bound there, as 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6, and the Book of Enoch have told us.

 

[Spock]

48 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Whaddya expect from a Vulcan!

But to get back to the subject, all this searching around for 8 human kings/rulers is totally missing the point, as I and Last Daze and others have already pointed out. The 7 kings are spiritual rulers/powers over human kingdoms, and are not human kings at all. The 8th is fallen spirit that will "ascend out of the Abyss" (Rev. 17:8), because fallen angels are the ones bound there, as 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6, and the Book of Enoch have told us.

 

Lol, good one William.  Hey, I've been gone for a while and it's been a while since I started this thread.  Did you post all your thoughts on Rev 17 here, like the one you just posted? If so, tonight, I will start at page one and go through the first 11 pages.  I read pages 12-14 before I posted yesterday.