Pre trib rapture is fake

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, Rick_Parker said:

I'm just joking around.

Ok

[tigger398]

8 hours ago, Rick_Parker said:

Maybe we can just look to the left and say "We told you so."

I don't think because some are post trib that there not saved. Just like if we believe in pre trib were saved to.

[Ezra]

6 hours ago, Last Daze said:

There is no biblical precedent for believers escaping tribulation, in fact the opposite is true. 

1. Was Enoch raptured before the judgment of the Flood?

2. Were Noah and his family left in the Flood to sink or swim?

3. Were Lot and his family left in Sodom to experience the wrath of God? 

4. Is the Church appointed to wrath, or to salvation?

[missmuffet]

51 minutes ago, tigger398 said:

I don't think because some are post trib that there not saved. Just like if we believe in pre trib were saved to.

That is right. Those who are born again believers who are post trib will go in the rapture.

[SINNERSAVED]

7 minutes ago, Ezra said:

1. Was Enoch raptured before the judgment of the Flood?

2. Were Noah and his family left in the Flood to sink or swim?

3. Were Lot and his family left in Sodom to experience the wrath of God? 

4. Is the Church appointed to wrath, or to salvation?

1. Was Enoch raptured before the judgment of the Flood?

 but does enoch come back to be one of the two witnesses ?

2. Were Noah and his family left in the Flood to sink or swim?

did not Noah go THROUGH the tribulation ? and the wrath of Gods flood

3. Were Lot and his family left in Sodom to experience the wrath of God? 

But lot and family went through the tribulation times, and walked out on the day of Gods wrath . like noah ?

4. Is the Church appointed to wrath, or to salvation?

the church or the believer the saints are not appointed for Gods wrath that is correct and is a said,

BUT we are subject to tribulation, persecution, beatens, arrested and hated and killed if they decide ,

its happening daily, and soon we will face the same faith

 we are not given a pass out of tribulation, this is a fact,. from Jesus mouth in matthew 24,

and the wrath of God is not the tribulation, that comes prior to the wrath of God, it is two different events, and its scriptural

 so I believe you have your answers and they are all correct and truth

 thank you

 

[Last Daze]

7 hours ago, Ezra said:

1. Was Enoch raptured before the judgment of the Flood?

2. Were Noah and his family left in the Flood to sink or swim?

3. Were Lot and his family left in Sodom to experience the wrath of God? 

4. Is the Church appointed to wrath, or to salvation?

Why do you persist in failing to distinguish between tribulation, judgment, and wrath?  Why do you continue to make such a mishmash out of them?  I'm afraid that your love of the pre-trib fallacy has clouded you mind.

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

Why do you persist in failing to distinguish between tribulation, judgment, and wrath?  Why do you continue to make such a mishmash out of them?  I'm afraid that your love of the pre-trib fallacy has clouded you mind.

The Tribulation period is also a time of wrath and judgement. It is not for believers but for unbelievers and the ungodly. How do we know this? From Revelation 6-18. There is not one mention of any church or churches during this period.

[Last Daze]

7 minutes ago, Ezra said:

The Tribulation period is also a time of wrath and judgement. It is not for believers but for unbelievers and the ungodly. How do we know this? From Revelation 6-18. There is not one mention of any church or churches during this period.

No, no, no.  The great tribulation is not a time God's judgment and wrath.  I know you desperately need such a mishmash to be true because its one of the main pillars supporting the pre-trib fallacy but it is NOT true.  The great tribulation is a time when believers are persecuted.  Read Revelation 7.  It's stated very clearly there.  Believers are also clearly mentioned in several places between Revelation 6 and 18.  The rapture is mentioned as the first reaping in Revelation 14:14-16, remember?

If you want to know the timing of when the dead in Christ rise and those alive are changed, and all are caught up, then look to when Jesus and Paul declared it will happen.  It does no good to make stuff up.  Start by identifying the last trumpet, the trumpet of God, and when the last day is.

Don't adjust what the Bible says to fit what you want it to say.  Prophecy is not fulfilled according to the wishes of man but according to the will of God.

[Zemke]

On 3/15/2016 at 10:35 PM, worthy said:

IS THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE FAKE

(Revelation 11:15 KJV) Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”

(1 Corinthians 15:52 KJV) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

(1 Thessalonians 4:16 KJV) For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.5

(Matthew 24:13 KJV)But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

(Matthew 13:28-30 KJV{28} He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? {29} But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. {30} Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
 

(John 17:15 KJV) I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

(John 17:20 KJV) Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

                     NOW WITH ALL OF THIS YOU TELL ME IF IT IS A LIE OR NOT

Sometimes, in this discussion over timing, we need to take a look at the reality of the event itself. Something we can all appreciate and come together on.

We can have discussions over the last trump but one place we can actually draw on what that last trump may be like and an exhortation into the reality of the resurrection is from Exodus.

We know the importance of the third day, and when something is repeated in just about any language it means pay attention. The garment or clothing has biblical significance from the garden on through to Revelation. Moses is a type of Christ that brought out the people from the camp. Interesting word "brought out". Same word used for Rahab being brought out by the two spies. And that word appears elsewhere.

The last trump is the trump of God and may or may not be the last trump of the seven in Revelation. But Exodus 19 gives us a piece of our future and an illuminating piece of that day and the trump of God.

Sometimes we need to sit back and get a scope on the bigger picture. There is more in the scriptures about these things we can discover with a little tweak in our approach.

[SINNERSAVED]

45 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

No, no, no.  The great tribulation is not a time God's judgment and wrath.  I know you desperately need such a mishmash to be true because its one of the main pillars supporting the pre-trib fallacy but it is NOT true.  The great tribulation is a time when believers are persecuted.  Read Revelation 7.  It's stated very clearly there.  Believers are also clearly mentioned in several places between Revelation 6 and 18.  The rapture is mentioned as the first reaping in Revelation 14:14-16, remember?

If you want to know the timing of when the dead in Christ rise and those alive are changed, and all are caught up, then look to when Jesus and Paul declared it will happen.  It does no good to make stuff up.  Start by identifying the last trumpet, the trumpet of God, and when the last day is.

Don't adjust what the Bible says to fit what you want it to say.  Prophecy is not fulfilled according to the wishes of man but according to the will of God.

Jesus says you that believe in me, ,SHALL, have TRIBULATION !! point, made in matthew 24,

 Jesus said if you follow me you must deny your self, and take up your CROSS, we may suffer and be persecuted and beaten , and killed for our faith in HIM ! fact. its in the WORDS of our SAVIOR, who came to SAVE us ?

and so as they hated me, and the prophets, and killed Jesus , we are warned, we are sent out as the sheep to the slaughter, .fact,

so do not believe them Jesus said, do not be deceived, , do not let any man ,deceive you or say He has come,. He is in the desert, or He is here,  for as the sun is darken  and the lightning crosses the sky, so will it be at the coming of Jesus, for every eye will see, and every eye will know, that Jesus has come, it is no secret hiding place ?

 and so you are not in darkness that are filled with the spirit, for those that are not filled with the spirit, and do not seek Yahweh,

 He will come as a thief in the night to them,  but we know that believe of the seasons and days we need not be told, why ???

 for the anointed times of the feast days tells us when He is coming, and when to be watching and alert, for if the strong man knew when the thief was coming ,he would have been waiting and it would not be, 

 so we are given the times and seasons and Gods feast days to watch and be obedient, and if you as a believer are not watching this, then we need to start immediately,

 for there is no secret rapture, for the scriptures are talking about a time of understanding between believers and there God, and the unbelievers are not seeking, and so the parable of the Ten virgins, is vital, for we know when Jesus will return,

 but those that are not ready will not enter, for they were not seeking and they were not concern to be watching and observing the signs given to us, ,

but we are told, you are going to suffer for what you believe, and for His name, sake , we are killed all the day long,

 but satan says, like he did to eve , did he not tell her, you will not surely die ??

satan tells the churches of the Christians today, you will not be left to suffer , you will not die ? you get to be RAOTURED before the TRIBULATION, this is mans fall to believe another lie, to lead him on the wide and broad road to hell and destruction, and its a doctrine from demons, so that you are not prepared, and you lose your faith in God, so that you think you escape, these things,

 you will not surely die, you get RAPTURED, so don't listen to any scripture or anything God says, , this is what many follow, !!

 and it will bring a end to them and to those around them for they never knew the lord, only by there lips, but there hearts were never in it, and they will cry later, when its all said and done at judgment day , lord ,lord, remember me ?

the parable of the wheat and the tares, are our churches , not all members in the churches are going to be saved !! fact and truth ,

for the one saying Lord , Lord are people that know about jesus and were like we, but was never really or truly saved,,fact and truth

but God tells us to be strong in the faith and believe, and He that endures until the end shall be saved ,

so let us praise Him and be joyful for our trials and testing is for our faith , and so as refiners fire we are purified, and cleansed, and we focus and stay on course following His ways,

blessings and peace, I pray this opens some eyes, God is calling , and its time to heed the call....