the scripture of Genesis Water above, and water below the heavens ?

[Retrobyter]

16 hours ago, Kan said:

I enjoyed reading this post, it is interesting and has thorough answers, thank you. I'll try to keep my comments more on target with the topic.

You're welcome! Sometimes you just have to allow the Ruach haQodesh Elohiym (the Holy Spirit of God) to lead you to the truth. This is what learning about your Jewish roots will do for you. It makes the passages come to life, and you can find the themes that bind the seemingly disjoint verses together into a single unit.

[Davidjayjordan]

The water above us was a dome, a circular dome that shielded our common ancestors from  harmful sun radiation. This is why they lived so long, UNTIL the waters above came down during the worldwide flood. True science, true history, true scriptures.

Genesis 1 is an awesome concise abbreviated scientific treatise, amazing. And to think it was all done by the supreme force or ultimate Force or TOE, theory of everything via a FORCE that united all forces... scalar energy, which also pervades the Universe and is the only means of harnessing non harmful power.

Our power sources kill and give off radiation, scalar energy of the Lord, does not and is instanteous and free. Instead of destroying atoms and breaking them apart it created and does creat and did create with an ALL POWERFUL FORCE... GOD (Jesus)

[OakWood]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Actually, it does! Remember these words?

Psalm 103:12
12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
KJV

In a flat earth, that is a LIMITED distance. In a global earth, that is an INFINITE distance, because you can go east forever and you can go west forever! I'd say that agrees with how far God has removed our transgressions from us, wouldn't you? Notice that He did NOT say as far as the north is from the south! I wonder why not? (Actually, I don't.)

How about this promise?

Genesis 8:20-22
20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
KJV

How are all these conditions addressed in a flat earth? On a global earth, day and night are happening at the same time! The part of the earth that is enlightened by the sun is experiencing "day." The part of the earth that is NOT so enlightened is experiencing "night."

On a global earth, summer and winter are happening at the same time. The northern hemisphere has its summer while the southern hemisphere has its winter, and vice versa.

On a global earth, spring (seedtime) and autumn (harvest) happen at the same time, again, the northern hemisphere has its spring when the southern hemisphere has its autumn, and vice versa. Indeed, our trade with other countries give us the opportunity to have certain fruits and vegetables relatively cheaply throughout the year. While some things can be grown in a greenhouse, other things are harder to grow without natural conditions.

On a global earth, cold and heat are happening at the same time. The poles, the North pole and the South pole, ALWAYS experience "cold." The equatorial region ALWAYS experiences "heat!" Indeed, how do you explain northern Alaska (above the Arctic Circle) having a SOLID 24 hours of "day" during the summer, or a SOLID 24 hours of "night" during the winter? The sun runs around the horizon all the way around when it can be seen during the summer! And, if you refer to the map with the north pole in the center of the flat earth, How is it that portions of Antarctica experience the same long days and nights?

It may not be forthright, but a spherical earth IS there!

On a flat Earth day and night is happening at the same time and on a flat Earth winter and summer are happening at the same time, you just don't understand how it works.

Do you really think that I'm that stupid? You're making assumptions about something you know nothing about. On a flat Earth the Sun moves between the tropics of cancer and capricorn just as it does on a globe Earth and it also rises in the East and sets in the West but it moves in a spiralling motion, thus it can be night in some parts of the World at the same time as it is day in the others. If you'd actually researched this you would have found out but instead you make a blind assumption without checking, because you don't actually want to find out - your mind is closed to the subject because you will not let go of the globe. I've told you already but your ears are deaf and you are extremely rude and insulting, treating people like idiots...... DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT I DIDN'T KNOW ANY OF THIS? That's the biggest insult I have ever heard. Do you think that I was born yesterday?

Polar nights and polar days are very easily explained on a flat Earth and why there is twenty four hour sunshine at the North Pole between the Vernal and Autumnal equinox.

The seasons are very easily explained on a flat Earth and why it can be summer in the North at the same time as it is winter in the South..

Day and night occurring in different parts of the World at the same time are very easily explained on a flat Earth.

It's actually very easy to explain but it needs moving diagrams which I cannot draw here on a Worthy post. Just check it for yourself, there must be hundreds of online resources explaining it. If that is the limit of your thinking then I don't think we should debate this subject any longer. You have made it clear that you don't even want to know and you continue to twist the word of God to fit in with your worship of the globe. Your mind is as closed as the pharisees.

This debate is over.......

[Retrobyter]

14 hours ago, OakWood said:

On a flat Earth day and night is happening at the same time and on a flat Earth winter and summer are happening at the same time, you just don't understand how it works.

Do you really think that I'm that stupid? You're making assumptions about something you know nothing about. On a flat Earth the Sun moves between the tropics of cancer and capricorn just as it does on a globe Earth and it also rises in the East and sets in the West but it moves in a spiralling motion, thus it can be night in some parts of the World at the same time as it is day in the others. If you'd actually researched this you would have found out but instead you make a blind assumption without checking, because you don't actually want to find out - your mind is closed to the subject because you will not let go of the globe. I've told you already but your ears are deaf and you are extremely rude and insulting, treating people like idiots...... DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT I DIDN'T KNOW ANY OF THIS? That's the biggest insult I have ever heard. Do you think that I was born yesterday?

Polar nights and polar days are very easily explained on a flat Earth and why there is twenty four hour sunshine at the North Pole between the Vernal and Autumnal equinox.

The seasons are very easily explained on a flat Earth and why it can be summer in the North at the same time as it is winter in the South..

Day and night occurring in different parts of the World at the same time are very easily explained on a flat Earth.

It's actually very easy to explain but it needs moving diagrams which I cannot draw here on a Worthy post. Just check it for yourself, there must be hundreds of online resources explaining it. If that is the limit of your thinking then I don't think we should debate this subject any longer. You have made it clear that you don't even want to know and you continue to twist the word of God to fit in with your worship of the globe. Your mind is as closed as the pharisees.

This debate is over.......

First of all, I do not "worship" the globe. I worship the CREATOR of the earth.

Second, you keep saying that these things are "very easily explained," but then you FAIL TO EXPLAIN THEM, EASILY OR OTHERWISE! And, instead of giving us (not just me, btw) a "very easy explanation," you choose to TAKE OFFENSE because you THINK I'm calling you "stupid," "an idiot," and "born yesterday!" (Those are all YOUR words and they exist ONLY in your imagination.)

Instead, you call me "blind," "deaf," "extremely rude," "insulting," one who is "limited in my thinking," one who "doesn't want to know (the truth)," one who "twists the Word of God to fit in with my worship of the globe," and one whose "mind is as closed as the Pharisees!"

Really? I've got a GREAT imagination of my own, and I would have LOVED to have some LEGITIMATE arguments to peruse: For instance, on a flat earth, you can draw a straight line from Beijing, China to Tampa, Florida. Now, draw another line from Beijing to the sun, and a third line from Tampa to the sun, giving us a triangle. How is it possible for us not to see the light from the sun when it's over Beijing? Even if it looked like a pin-prick of light, as though it was just one more of the stars, we should be able to see it. As far as I know, there's no lampshade on the sun, no blinders, and no obstruction between here and the sun over there that I can see; so, why can't we see it? It's an HONEST QUESTION!

Yes, I fear this debate is over, but not on YOUR say-so.

[Omegaman 3.0]

Not exactly on topic, but brought up in the thread, someone said:

"The Earth is flat and does not move. I've said this before and I've been mocked for it... but I stand by my convictions. Outer Space is a lie and the hoax is designed to set us up for a great deception. Many people believe in aliens but those who claim to have encountered aliens have been deceived by demons. When the Tribulation comes many people will be deceived by this New Age' extra-terrestrial lie.

NASA is lying to us... the photographs have been faked. Believe the Bible not NASA..... The Earth does not move, nor is it a Globe. There is a firmament above us and we cannot escape it. The Universe is not billions of light-years across, there was no Big Bang and Evolution is a lie.... We live on a Flat Earth with a dome above us and the heavens move across the ceiling of this dome. The Earth does not revolve around the Sun... the Sun moves above us across the ceiling that we live below."

First thing I want to do, is to offer a disclaimer to any non-Christians who might read this, that the view expressed above is not typical of Christians, there is a minority of people an any group, who do not hold to "conventional wisdom". Please to not judge a whole group on the basis of a few.

Having said that, I would appreciate it, is someone could answer a few questions for me, that might be representative of people who believe like the person above does. It does not have to be this individual, but if you think you  can fairly answer the questions from that framework, I would appreciate your understanding.

Would a person who believes as above, be of the opinion that the length of Greenland could fit within the Arabian Peninsula, East to West?

Or that the length of Greenland, would fit about about 12 time into the distance between Equador and Indonesia along the equator, but only 7-2/3 times, if done in a straight line across the North Pole?

See image to understand the question more clearly.

Also of passing interest and related to the topic of a NASA hoax, is a video on another part of the site.

[OakWood]

2 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Not exactly on topic, but brought up in the thread, someone said:

"The Earth is flat and does not move. I've said this before and I've been mocked for it... but I stand by my convictions. Outer Space is a lie and the hoax is designed to set us up for a great deception. Many people believe in aliens but those who claim to have encountered aliens have been deceived by demons. When the Tribulation comes many people will be deceived by this New Age' extra-terrestrial lie.

NASA is lying to us... the photographs have been faked. Believe the Bible not NASA..... The Earth does not move, nor is it a Globe. There is a firmament above us and we cannot escape it. The Universe is not billions of light-years across, there was no Big Bang and Evolution is a lie.... We live on a Flat Earth with a dome above us and the heavens move across the ceiling of this dome. The Earth does not revolve around the Sun... the Sun moves above us across the ceiling that we live below."

First thing I want to do, is to offer a disclaimer to any non-Christians who might read this, that the view expressed above is not typical of Christians, there is a minority of people an any group, who do not hold to "conventional wisdom". Please to not judge a whole group on the basis of a few.

Having said that, I would appreciate it, is someone could answer a few questions for me, that might be representative of people who believe like the person above does. It does not have to be this individual, but if you think you  can fairly answer the questions from that framework, I would appreciate your understanding.

Would a person who believes as above, be of the opinion that the length of Greenland could fit within the Arabian Peninsula, East to West?

Or that the length of Greenland, would fit about about 12 time into the distance between Equador and Indonesia along the equator, but only 7-2/3 times, if done in a straight line across the North Pole?

See image to understand the question more clearly.

Also of passing interest and related to the topic of a NASA hoax, is a video on another part of the site.

You really are a coward aren't you OM? If you were so confident that your opinions were true, you would allow other opinions but I noticed that you have posted a video mocking those who disagree with you and you have made it so that nobody can reply. Another abuse of your privilege as a mod (which hasn't gone unnoticed) and another censoring of free speech. You are a little tyrant. What are you scared of?

Just who do you think you are?

I'm going to ask you some questions. If you're a man you'll face them and answer them. If you're a doubter you will run away from them or try to change the subject..

The Bible tells us that the Earth has a firmament above it with water above that. Did NASA send rockets above the Earth's atmosphere and then travel through water?

Please answer this question. It's your stage. Everybody is watching.

The Bible gives us a description of the Earth. Why throughout Ancient Times did not one single Jew believe that the Earth was a spinning globe orbiting the Sun? Were they guilty of poor exegesis? Did they not read the Torah properly?

When we look at a mountain range, why do we not see high distant mountains lean away from each other? Surely they would if the Earth was curved? Take your time. It's simple Common Sense and I'm sure that a man of your capabilities can answer such a simple question. And don't reply with your usual clownish trickery. I'm not talking about mountains that are close because I know that you're a master of misrepresentation - I'm talking about distant mountains that are well beyond the expanse of where we should see curvature.

Here's a tip for you: Don't reply with 'optical illusion'. Optical illusions are temporary phenomena that can be explained by atmospheric conditions, refraction of light etc. The fact that we NEVER see distant mountains or distant skyscrapers lean away from each other or lean away from us if they are in front of our view but dropping below the horizon (but they always remain perpendicular) means that there is no optical illusion taking place, unless of course, it's a permanent one. If it is a permanent one then how can we ever trust the evidence of our own eyes?

Why does the Moon give out cold light but the Sun give out warm light if the Moon merely reflects the light of the Sun? Anybody can carry out this experiment. With a simple infra-red laser thermometer you can easily determine that moonlight is colder than the shade. But sunlight is always hotter than the shade. How can that be if the Moon is merely a reflector of the Sun and does not give out its own light? If you mock and declare that this is a bogus answer then I'm willing to send you an infra-red thermometer free of charge through the post from your country to my country - at my own cost so that you have no excuse to try this out for yourself. If you don't trust my tools then pick any infra-red thermometer that you like from Amazon (or elsewhere) and I will buy it for you (within reason). That's how confident I am. And anybody who reads this knows that I have made such a claim.

By the way, I'm not the only one who has carried out this experiment - thousands have and I can show you proof if you push me towards doing so.

As for your flat Earth map doubts well I have a surprise for you. Ordinary commercial airline routes already follow flat Earth maps - they even follow bizarre routes in the Southern Hemisphere that make no sense on traditional globe maps. Now if you had researched this you would have known that. Just go to YouTube and type in Flat Earth Southern Hemisphere airline routes and you will be surprised at the results - and yes all your doubts about distances that you have expressed above are explained too,scientifically, logically and satisfactorily. If you'd even bother to research this subject in the slightest you would have known that, but you couldn't even be bothered to do that because  your pride makes you believe that you already have all the answers - is that not right?

And don't you dare talk about conventional wisdom. Convential wisdom is man-made. I'm more interested in talking about God's wisdom.

If you want I will provide all the proof that you need if you're up to the challenge, but I suspect that you'll just go away post your own little video, abuse your privileges again, and block your little ears from criticism.

Oh, and you can delete this thread if you like but it won't be forgotten. I have a copy of it... and yes, I can easily put this copy online, elsewhere where you can't touch it with your name above it. And I have enough email addresses and contacts here to make sure that they will all know where to find it.

So what are you waiting for? Take your time and reply when you are ready. Remember that this is an open challenge and all eyes are on you including the Lord's!

 

[Guest Robert]

10 minutes ago, OakWood said:

You really are a coward aren't you OM? If you were so confident that your opinions were true, you would allow other opinions but I noticed that you have posted a video mocking those who disagree with you and you have made it so that nobody can reply. Another abuse of your privilege as a mod (which hasn't gone unnoticed) and another censoring of free speech. You are a little tyrant. What are you scared of?

Just who do you think you are?

 

Calling a fellow believer in Christ and a servant of the Lord a "coward" and "a tyrant" is uncalled for on all levels, OakWood.

Omegaman is a servant and a moderator here, and he has not abused anything.

 

[OakWood]

1 minute ago, RobertS said:

Calling a fellow believer in Christ and a servant of the Lord a "coward" and "a tyrant" is uncalled for on all levels, OakWood.

Omegaman is a servant and a moderator here, and he has not abused anything.

 

Oh yes he has. I've already put in a complaint about it. He's deleted the post now..... but it was there. He's also posted a video that will accept no replies. He has no right to stop freedom of speech.

[ayin jade]

2 minutes ago, OakWood said:

He has no right to stop freedom of speech.

Just so folks understand, freedom of speech applies only to govt related things, and not to private forums.

[Omegaman 3.0]

29 minutes ago, OakWood said:

You really are a coward aren't you OM? If you were so confident that your opinions were true, you would allow other opinions but I noticed that you have posted a video mocking those who disagree with you and you have made it so that nobody can reply. Another abuse of your privilege as a mod (which hasn't gone unnoticed) and another censoring of free speech. You are a little tyrant. What are you scared of?

Just who do you think you are?

I'm going to ask you some questions. If you're a man you'll face them and answer them. If you're a doubter you will run away from them or try to change the subject..

Please answer this question. It's your stage. Everybody is watching.

 oh wait, maybe this one, for my cowardly status!