the book of Jasher, should it be part of study ?

[MorningGlory]

7 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Morning Glory.....

    Excellent post!           Praise the Lord!                                           Love,Kwik

[1to3]

12 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi 1to3

Good question!  It seems like a contradiction if the dead are dead, just like this one from Revelations;

Revelation 6:9   And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Revelation 6:10   And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

I first questioned this as it contradicts the below;

Ecclesiastes 9:5   For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecclesiastes 9:6   Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 9:10   Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Then I realised that Rev was a metaphor!  Remember this verse?

Revelation 8:3   And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Revelation 8:4   And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

The prayers of the saints are never forgotten!  They are all stored.  The angel below collects all the prayers of the saints, and sends it to the angel in charge above who keeps it in the golden censer, which then gives it to God!  These prayers never die.  The people died, but their prayers for help and justice live on FOREVER.  The prayers are PRESERVED.  Justice is crying out from the GRAVE.  It's a metaphor

Revelation 5:8   And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
 

Revelation 15:8   And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

See, now we know that this smoke that fills the temple are all the prayers of the saints, and their odours, NOW GOD IS GOING TO ACT, and do JUSTICE on their behalf.  NOW HE WILL ANSWER these prayers all at once with all their prayers collected TOGETHER!

 

Now look at this one concerning the ungodly

 Revelation 14:11   And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Their "works" ascend up also, but not for good.  Most are still alive and their works will be remembered all together now too, with the rest of the dead who did wickedness.  Evil will be cut off.  They get their reward also.  Abel's blood is still crying out metaphorically!  Justice is crying out!  All the smoke from the good and evil has filled heaven.  There must be a horrible smell in there also!

Now God said this;

 Ezekiel 18:4   Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Souls belong to God, so he collects their souls when they die.  He takes them back, and just preserves them.  He puts them into different rooms according to what he will do with them.  Jesus said "My Father's house has many mansions".  Many different sections.  The judging will be done from heaven, so the souls of men have to be there.  The prayers of the saints "ascended", so they came from the earth, below whilst alive, not heaven. 

So far, what seemed like a contradiction to me once before concerning the dead only was a contradiction because I never understood, but now it's a little more clear having put many scriptures together by weighing everything out.

So I find that this passage you questioned, does not contradict, but harmonises with the scriptures quite nicely so far.

Thank you sister for your reply and explanation.

From my understanding, when we go back to the Lord, there are no more tears, no more sorrows, that is why I was surprised to read that Abel was still lamenting his murder in heaven. But by the way you explained it I can see your point of view

I am continuing to read the book of Enoch....

from certain passages I have already read, where it says that the saints in heaven are praying for the men on earth, I can see where the Catholics perhaps have gotten their take on saints and their intercession for us still on earth. 

The passage in ch.40 v6 6. The third voice I heard petitioning and praying for those who dwell upon earth, and supplicate the name of the Lord of spirits.

God Bless

 

 

[SINNERSAVED]

I am reading the book of Enoch again for the second time, and I really like this book, and it has a lot of definitions, that the bible does not get into , the good thing about this book I noticed is that it has the scripture verses so you can follow it with your own bible , and see what the words are in that verse or chapter, I find it amazing, but that is my opinion, of course,

 the book of Jasher, is not as exciting, but I guess its informative,  so that's what I am getting out of these two books

blessings

[Sister]

11 hours ago, 1to3 said:

Thank you sister for your reply and explanation.

From my understanding, when we go back to the Lord, there are no more tears, no more sorrows, that is why I was surprised to read that Abel was still lamenting his murder in heaven. But by the way you explained it I can see your point of view

I am continuing to read the book of Enoch....

from certain passages I have already read, where it says that the saints in heaven are praying for the men on earth, I can see where the Catholics perhaps have gotten their take on saints and their intercession for us still on earth. 

The passage in ch.40 v6 6. The third voice I heard petitioning and praying for those who dwell upon earth, and supplicate the name of the Lord of spirits.

God Bless

 

 

1to3

I am glad you can see that too.  I mentioned that the version you quoted is different from mine.  So if we just quote passages from the Book of Enoch, it may not look the same on my end as it does on your end.

Yes, the catholics may have got their interpretation from this book, and got it a little mixed up,  but the other christian denominations have got it mixed up also not from the book of Enoch but from the holy bible.

[Sister]

SINNERSAVED

Thank you.  I'm glad you saw what the scriptures reveal.  The ones dead calling out from the grave  "below", are dead.  They are not really calling out because their dead, but "justice is crying out" for God to "revenge", and he says "not yet, just wait a little longer until your brethren are killed also like you were".  He is not really speaking to "them", but speaking to "us", revealing what's to come, he's speaking to "the living" who are feeding on his Word.....The others are "dead", they can't hear, they don't know anything in the grave, they don't even know they are "dead!" .....but all their prayers whilst still alive, ascended to God, and now that they are dead, justice is crying out from the grave metaphorically.  And it's their "prayers" that ascended up to heaven.  Their prayers did not come "from heaven", but from the earth.  Even though God has taken possession of their souls and stored them in heaven, their souls are not aware of anything just yet, until the power is switched back on at the resurrection.... it's their prayers whilst on earth that he is answering to.

Revelation 6:10   And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?  

Revelation 6:11   And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

We have to first understand the bible, and understand what being dead is all about before we can understand those scriptures in Enoch.  Otherwise it will be confusing.

[OakWood]

5 hours ago, Sister said:

1to3

I am glad you can see that too.  I mentioned that the version you quoted is different from mine.  So if we just quote passages from the Book of Enoch, it may not look the same on my end as it does on your end.

Yes, the catholics may have got their interpretation from this book, and got it a little mixed up,  but the other christian denominations have got it mixed up also not from the book of Enoch but from the holy bible.

Actually, some of Enoch contradicts Catholic doctrine which is another reason they may have omitted it from the canon.

[Sister]

1 hour ago, OakWood said:

Actually, some of Enoch contradicts Catholic doctrine which is another reason they may have omitted it from the canon.

Thank you OakWood.

I think the belief that the dead can speak from the grave came from the "parable" about Lazarus and Abraham.  It was just "a parable" showing that once judgement is made you can't change places with the other side - in other words change your situation.

...and the other reason would be because of Jesus preaching to the spirits.  Many think he did this when dead, but he actually went and preached to those spirits (evil angels) who were locked up since the days of Noah.  He was not speaking to man, but angels, and this was AFTER his resurrection any way.  I imagine he would of told them he was boss now, and laid down some rules keeping in mind they will be let out during the 5th trumpet.  He wouldn't of given them hope because they are damned creatures, but he will use them again in the pouring out of God's wrath on the ungodly, - those who have taken the Mark of the beast.

 1 Peter 3:19   By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

 1 Peter 3:20   Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

No where does it say Christ did this when he was dead.

 

 

Revelation 9:2   And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

  Revelation 9:3   And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

  Revelation 9:4   And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

  Revelation 9:5   And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

  Revelation 9:6   And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

[appy]

Just my thoughts, but enoch reads more like a science fiction noval, than scripture

[other one]

2 hours ago, giggling appy said:

Just my thoughts, but enoch reads more like a science fiction noval, than scripture

To non believers, the whole Bible is a science fiction novel.  

[SINNERSAVED]

8 hours ago, OakWood said:

Actually, some of Enoch contradicts Catholic doctrine which is another reason they may have omitted it from the canon.

yes and I would agree, with that, it is trying to not make it go against it self and to make it nice ,in a nice package, but when we go back to see how the operation of the evil was, we need to think about it , before going in and not see what was in the past ? amen brother