What is the doctrine of the Trinity?

[Jayne]

9 minutes ago, other one said:

I have a question....    did the Holy Spirit allow the Apostles to speak in different languages or did he allow the people to hear in their own language.....    I don't see the apostles/disciples speaking in a foreign language for the people heard them in multiple languages at one time from what I read.

The Bible says that they were speaking in other languages.

Acts 2:1-12 = "When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. ² Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. ³ They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. ⁴ All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues^[a] as the Spirit enabled them.

⁵ Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. ⁶ When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. ⁷ Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? ⁸ Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? ⁹ Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,^{[b] 10} Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome ¹¹ (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” ¹² Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

[Guest BacKaran]

It was common to speak Aramaic, Greek and Latin.

Everyone has two names, one in Aramaic and Greek.

Saul became Paul for example.

A name change with Christ signified a change in the person as well again old sinner Saul to new creation Paul.?

[other one]

 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? ⁹ Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,^{[b] 10} Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome ¹¹ (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” ¹² Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

 

[OneLight]

14 minutes ago, other one said:

I have a question....    did the Holy Spirit allow the Apostles to speak in different languages or did he allow the people to hear in their own language.....    I don't see the apostles/disciples speaking in a foreign language for the people heard them in multiple languages at one time from what I read.

On the contrary, we read the accounts in Acts 2:1-12

When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”

Seems to me they are hearing them speak in their language, as the Holy Spirit gave them utterance.

[Guest BacKaran]

Yes, and it was brought about as a sign to unbelieving people who asked for a sign.

The amazement was in how could these uneducated fisherman possibly know our languages?

It was all God!

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

I am assuming since Jesus grew up from a baby to an adult, just like you and I in a particular culture, his mother and father would have taught him whatever language they were speaking. As far as I understand that particular culture it was primarily Aramaic with a large Greek influence and maybe some Hebrew as well. Whether Jesus knew only one or both or another language I think I will have to leave that answer to one of the cultural scholars on this forum.

I don't recall reading that Jesus spoke in various languages although in his travels he would have gone into different regions that would undoubtedly have different dialects just like we would find anywhere else in the world. That was something that people of the region would have learned to understand just like if you lived in New York and went to Kentucky.

Jesus knew the heart, the thoughts of men....that is something that the Holy Spirit does. Because the Father wanted it to happen, the Holy Spirit enabled the apostles to speak in different languages on Pentecost, so it would not be a stretch to look at Jesus, who was fully dependent on the Holy Spirit to know the Fathers thoughts, as being able to speak in other languages if the Father chose to communicate that way with someone. I just don't recall that ever being recorded tho.

That's a real good question that you've put in my mind....now you've got me thinking.

Thank you for responding, I am not ignoring the reference you made about Jesus having the quality to perceived as an adult, the thoughts of others, and not all, he did not need to know all their thoughts, only the relevant ones. 

But we can not say that they people had also this ability and they were able to communicate mentally, even thought that it is possible if the our thoughts are construed in the same language. 

An example would Jesus be able to carry on a conversation in spoken Chinese, or written Chinese, 

Even if Jesus had the help of the Holy Spirit, to interpret the Chinese thoughts to him. ( if that time ... was God , does he need the help of the Holy Spirit to translate the Chinese thoughts in to the language he understands) . 

Like when Nicodemus approach him, Jesus knew the questions he had in his mind, what he was wondering about. 

In another example Peter did not know , what Kornilius was wandering about, (Jesus knew), and at the right time he give the answer to them by hearing  Peter. 

Peter spoken the answer , without knowing the questions, without perceiving or knowing their  thoughts. 

Regarding Jesus your comments were about him as a mature adult, while in his ministry , after his baptism and the forty days in the dessert. 

With my first question , I was looking into whether Jesus experience as a human being all the stages of life. 

From being a fetus, to being an infant , a toddler, and so on. 

And also I had his mother in my mind. 

She must have felt the attachment the baby had to her, she must have felt that the baby needed her, to feel safe and secure in her arms, and that the toddler needed her guidance, (to patty - training him, or the experience of loosing the teeth, the treating of injuries, his mother as any other mother she must also felt a duty to calm him down from his fears. 

As a mother she experience the strong bond that Jesus needed her. 

The Angels were involved in his flee to Egypt , and perhaps in many other situations, but they did not substitute for her motherhood. 

We see that even when he was in his ministry, she still try to protect him, perhaps having the witness within her, that she is going to lose him, but not knowing all things she reacted in the way she did. 

When Jesus was about twelve years old, it seems that it was made known to him about who he really was. Without his mother knowing , 

When he told her that I have to go about his Father's business,

Jesus was telling her that he knows that Joseph is not his father.

We see the surprise in his mother when she heard those things .

We see that Jesus was entertain by the priest in the Temple, not knowing at that time , and even them not knowing that they will be the ones to put him to his death . (The priest, and the leaders, those who were put as the guardians of their faith by the Lord God. 

In this example we see that Jesus acted prematurely upon the initial revelations and he went to the priest first, thinking that they should be the first to know, and that they may welcome him. 

But what we see that follow is that God teach him to contained himself for he had him to go to the people. 

Even as an adult, Jesus was going to the Synagogues, but God through their prosecution cause him to go to the people. 

The same thing happened with Paul, he finally said, my time has come to go to the Gentiles, (or Jesus told him so, because they want heed his word, and used his words to prosecute him.

The same goes for Peter and the rest of The disciples, finely all of them they had to go to those who were not seeking God, the Gentiles. 

Jesus learn to wait almost eighteen years to start his ministry, from twelve to thirty. 

From all these examples we see that Jesus at his time on earth ,did not exhibit all the characteristics we attribute to God, but rather what the disciples preached .

You know Jesus of Nazareth who was annoyted by the Holy Spirit and .....

Now we have the question ;

When Jesus was annoyted by the Holy Spirit , to be sent off on his ministry? 

We are still before the Cross , when I said Jesus is not exhibiting all that are attributed to God. 

We are not after the Cross yet and the resurrection , when the Father gave all authority to Jesus in Heaven and Earth. 

And made him the Judge of all, giving him all his theotis and the Holy Spirit.  

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by Your closest friendnt
Correction

[Mike 2]

16 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 I see your independent mind, and I would like to  ask you something that we can have a conversation with.

When Jesus was born, did his mother had to teach him, the language?

What was the language Jesus was communicating with? 

Was Jesus able to communicate in other languages or dialects, if he did not study them first? 

I am assuming since Jesus grew up from a baby to an adult, just like you and I in a particular culture, his mother and father would have taught him whatever language they were speaking. As far as I understand that particular culture it was primarily Aramaic with a large Greek influence and maybe some Hebrew as well. Whether Jesus knew only one or both or another language I think I will have to leave that answer to one of the cultural scholars on this forum.

I don't recall reading that Jesus spoke in various languages although in his travels he would have gone into different regions that would undoubtedly have different dialects just like we would find anywhere else in the world. That was something that people of the region would have learned to understand just like if you lived in New York and went to Kentucky.

Jesus knew the heart, the thoughts of men....that is something that the Holy Spirit does. Because the Father wanted it to happen, the Holy Spirit enabled the apostles to speak in different languages on Pentecost, so it would not be a stretch to look at Jesus, who was fully dependent on the Holy Spirit to know the Fathers thoughts, as being able to speak in other languages if the Father chose to communicate that way with someone. I just don't recall that ever being recorded tho.

That's a real good question that you've put in my mind....now you've got me thinking.

 

 

 

I'm having a tough time learning how to respond to someone withing the chain. Hopefully this goes where I intend it too

Closest Friend you said 

But we can not say that they people had also this ability and they were able to communicate mentally, even thought that it is possible if the our thoughts are construed in the same language. 

You're right people cannot have the ability to do that but if God chooses to give them that ability for a time He is perfectly able to bless them with that ability through his Holy Spirit.

 "Even if Jesus had the help of the Holy Spirit, to interpret the Chinese thoughts to him. ( if that time ... was God , does he need the help of the Holy Spirit to translate the Chinese thoughts in to the language he understands) .  "

This topic is about the Trinity...with that in mind we know that The Son does nothing without the Father initiating it (John 5:19).

Jesus did nothing without the Holy Spirit. Everything Jesus did was the Fathers will on earth as it is in heaven and as 1 Cor 2:10-15 tells us , it is through the Holy Spirit that Jesus (and us) can know the thoughts the Father. If it is the Fathers will that Jesus would understand Chinese then that ability would come from the Father (the deep things of God 1cor: 2) through the Holy Spirit to The Son and he would be able to do that.

Talking about these things can be very confusing if we do not have an understanding that Jesus can refer to just a body or it can refer to The Son that is indwelling that body , one is in the physical realm the other is in the spiritual realm. We have to learn to look at the context of the biblical passages and determine which it is.

What we see revealed through Jesus about God was exactly what God wanted and needed to reveal to man, nothing more nothing less. 

Edited December 22, 2016 by Mike 2
distinguish between physical and spiritual

[Your closest friendnt]

17 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

 

 

Quote

The Son does nothing without the Father initiating it (John 5:19). 

Jesus said this during his earthly ministry, 

This was truth for that time only and not after his glorification . 

Quote

 Everything Jesus did was the Fathers will on earth as it is in heaven

While it is correct to say that Jesus came to do the will of the Father, to add the word "everything" and make it an absolute it is incorrect, it is wrong , Jesus did many things on his own. 

 

Quote

 

 

Quote

 

 

[Mike 2]

On 12/22/2016 at 0:04 AM, Your closest friendnt said:

 I see your independent mind, and I would like to  ask you something that we can have a conversation with.

When Jesus was born, did his mother had to teach him, the language?

What was the language Jesus was communicating with? 

Was Jesus able to communicate in other languages or dialects, if he did not study them first? 

I am assuming since Jesus grew up from a baby to an adult, just like you and I in a particular culture, his mother and father would have taught him whatever language they were speaking. As far as I understand that particular culture it was primarily Aramaic with a large Greek influence and maybe some Hebrew as well. Whether Jesus knew only one or both or another language I think I will have to leave that answer to one of the cultural scholars on this forum.

I don't recall reading that Jesus spoke in various languages although in his travels he would have gone into different regions that would undoubtedly have different dialects just like we would find anywhere else in the world. That was something that people of the region would have learned to understand just like if you lived in New York and went to Kentucky.

Jesus knew the heart, the thoughts of men....that is something that the Holy Spirit does. Because the Father wanted it to happen, the Holy Spirit enabled the apostles to speak in different languages on Pentecost, so it would not be a stretch to look at Jesus, who was fully dependent on the Holy Spirit to know the Fathers thoughts, as being able to speak in other languages if the Father chose to communicate that way with someone. I just don't recall that ever being recorded tho.

That's a real good question that you've put in my mind....now you've got me thinking.

 

 

 

I'm having a tough time learning how to respond to someone withing the chain. Hopefully this goes where I intend it too

Closest Friend you said 

But we can not say that they people had also this ability and they were able to communicate mentally, even thought that it is possible if the our thoughts are construed in the same language. 

You're right people cannot have the ability to do that but if God chooses to give them that ability for a time He is perfectly able to bless them with that ability through his Holy Spirit.

 "Even if Jesus had the help of the Holy Spirit, to interpret the Chinese thoughts to him. ( if that time ... was God , does he need the help of the Holy Spirit to translate the Chinese thoughts in to the language he understands) .  "

This topic is about the Trinity...with that in mind we know that The Son does nothing without the Father initiating it (John 5:19).

Jesus did nothing without the Holy Spirit. Everything Jesus did was the Fathers will on earth as it is in heaven and as 1 Cor 2:10-15 tells us , it is through the Holy Spirit that Jesus (and us) can know the thoughts the Father. If it is the Fathers will that Jesus would understand Chinese then that ability would come from the Father (the deep things of God 1cor: 2) through the Holy Spirit to The Son and he would be able to do that.

Talking about these things can be very confusing if we do not have an understanding that Jesus can refer to just a body or it can refer to The Son that is indwelling that body. We have to learn to look at the context of the biblical passages and determine which it is.

What we see revealed through Jesus about God was exactly what God wanted and needed to reveal to man, nothing more nothing less. 

Edited December 23, 2016 by Mike 2

[Mike 2]

35 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

While it is correct to say that Jesus came to do the will of the Father, to add the word "everything" and make it an absolute it is incorrect, it is wrong , Jesus did many things on his own. 

That would bring what Jesus said into question 

Joh 5:19  Jesus told them, "Truly, I tell all of you with certainty, the Son can do nothing on his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing, What the Father does, the Son does likewise. 

Keep in mind we are talking about the Trinity and how "God" functions (Father, Holy Spirit, Son). Jesus is very clear that the Son can do nothing on his own accord. 

Unless there is some other meaning to what Jesus said that I am unaware of I have to stand by what he is saying here that everything he did was the will of the Father

Edited December 23, 2016 by Mike 2
clarifying description of "God"