more indept study of Armenian and Calvinist

[Ezra]

19 hours ago, DARRELX said:

I am all for the Gospel of Jesus Christ being preached to the whole world. May every man hear that Jesus died for their sins for Christ will not return until all His sheep are saved.

If the Gospel is for the whole world, then why would salvation be only for the so-called *elect*?  Why don't you stop for a moment and answer that for yourself.

[DARRELX]

4 hours ago, Ezra said:

If the Gospel is for the whole world, then why would salvation be only for the so-called *elect*?  Why don't you stop for a moment and answer that for yourself.

I actually did in that very same post. 

[angels4u]

On 7/5/2016 at 11:16 AM, Ezra said:

If the Gospel is for the whole world, then why would salvation be only for the so-called *elect*?  Why don't you stop for a moment and answer that for yourself.

Amen Ezra, Jesus did not come from heaven to keep only the ones He selected, but for" whosoever will come " ~~

…16“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star.” 17The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!”Let the one who hears say, “Come!” And let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely. 18I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. Rev.2:17

[Ezra]

51 minutes ago, angels4u said:

Amen Ezra, Jesus did not come from heaven to keep only the ones He selected, but for" whosoever will come "

angels4u,

These truths are so basic, yet some dispute them.  Once we begin to tamper with the Gospel, there is no end. "Whosoever" means whosoever -- anyone and everyone without exception.  That is the beauty of the grace of God.

[angels4u]

40 minutes ago, Ezra said:

angels4u,

These truths are so basic, yet some dispute them.  Once we begin to tamper with the Gospel, there is no end. "Whosoever" means whosoever -- anyone and everyone without exception.  That is the beauty of the grace of God.

 

Amen , whosoever ~~~everybody who is thirsty~~Come to the grace of God ~~and find rest in the grace of God

[KPaulG]

On 5/20/2016 at 10:57 PM, angels4u said:

 

I don't want to take anything away from Bobeep thread but I love to go a little deeper of what it really stands for and why you think you are Arminian or why you think you are Calvinist.

For me it's sort of a labeling because I go by what the Bible tells me and not really by what people think I should or should not believe.

I believe many of us do not really grasp the meaning of both and that's why I would like everybody's input of in which camp we belong.

I try to figure myself out but I don't think I really know what I am,I look at the 5 points and believe all of them,does this make me a Calvinist?

I also believe in a free will:

By free will , I believe God gives us all a choice to either accept or reject the gospel message.

God knows already who will reject or accept Him

.Does this make me Armenian?

Please share all you know about this topic or everything you want to ask,we're all here to learn

 

http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/do-arminians-preach-a-sufficient-gospel

http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/watershed-differences-between-calvinists-and-arminians

I will have to study this more tomorrow ,it's too late know and it's time to shut the computer off !!

Goodnight~~

 

The Armenian vs. Calvin did not begin until either the 15th century or the 16th century.

[Sailingsoul]

Hello there, I believe in a bit of both Arminism and Calvinism,however I lean more towards Calvinism because its in the bible and you cant explain it away... And so is free will. Here is what I make of it. We have free will but it is limited, what we do or dont do will not thwart gods plans. I feel when it comes down to it we have a will but so does God but his will is stronger and can do what ever he sets out to do. Also, I dont like arminiansism because it makes god look too weak and many times in the bible that isnt the case.

[Jaydog1976]

For a very long time I held to the Calvinistic viewpoints. I even defended them pretty strongly. I know all the verses that actually support both viewpoints. 

I used to attend a Baptist Church that was staunch Calvinistic. I mean they even went to the point of saying Jesus was Calvinistic. Yikes! Needless to say we aren't in that church anymore even though my wife and I have a very deep respect for the former pastor and his love for the Lord.

I know several posters have said that there is no scriptural teaching for either side. I beg to differ in that yes there is. It's called interpretation of scripture. We all, interpret scripture differently.

I know good godly men and women that have held to one or the other viewpoints. This topic is a very controversial one and will always be debated.

What I have come to the believe is that faith comes by hearing and that is by hearing through the word of God. We are saved because yes we must make the decision but we have to hear that call through the Holy Spirit working in our lives. How this works I have no clue nor do I want to venture into trying to understand God in an area that I won't be able to. Where we go wrong is that we try to understand God's logic through our own minds. We know that God knows who will be saved and who will not. But we also know that a person has to make a choice. So how do we reconcile these two things: free will to choose and God's sovereignty and knowing all things. The best answer: we can't. 

God isn't in our box of reasoning and is way above our thoughts and ways. He isn't fair, He is just, righteous and holy and makes His decisions based upon who He is not based upon what you and I think is fair or just. He makes the salvation message free to all but knows that few will accept that message. This is were faith must take over. I have faith that God has everything in control, He knows all things so I don't have to and that I need to be obedient to him because He asks me to even if I don't know all the reasons. I'm commanded to go and preach the gospel.

 What Calvinism and Arminianism do is that both interpretations try to throw a very human thought process into understanding how God operates. We can't do that or our interpretation of scripture becomes very skewed and borderline heretical. 

I for one have taken God's word at face value on this one now. I'm not Calvinistic or arminianistic. I am a Christian who is saved by grace and am commanded to tell others the good news while living in obedience to the God who saved me. And I love Him  because He loved me first. Not the other way around. 

[enoob57]

How can I be sure the error of Calvinism 'in saying only the elect' is found in the initial intent of the heart of God:

Matthew 25:41 (KJV)

[41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

to understand the significance of this 'prepared for the devil and his angels' is to go here

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)

[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

As this us-ward brings into all mankind because this is here

Romans 1:20 (KJV)

[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

The logical progression of thought goes as this
The hell was created for devil and his angels and God's desire is that no one else of Adams offspring even those who have never seen or heard of the Scripture... but because of His Creative Word, we were born into, and The Written Word, explaining in detail,- All men are held into account for these things... and are commanded to seek Him

Isaiah 55:6 (KJV)

[6] Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

[7] Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

[8] For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

[9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Clearly then election is not founded upon salvation but sealing unto sanctification... For The Lord knew before the foundations of creation began that Lucifer, not yet created, would in fact deceive all and turn all the children of Adam from the truth

Matthew 24:24 (KJV)

[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

but the witness of The Creative Word and The Written Word that God 'IS' and then realization the total of inability of ineptness to come to Him but to call out of the unworthy to be made able to do so... it was self centered to be saved but when The Lord entered as He promised we became children of God that was freed from that focused existence of self and are set upon God to give all that we have become back to God's use for God's glory making our purpose complete in Him...

Love, Steven

[StanJ]

https://withchristianeyes.net/2013/02/03/against-calvinism-a-counterpoint-book-by-roger-e-olson/