Water was not created

[FresnoJoe]

On 6/5/2016 at 1:08 AM, post said:

the Bible isn't a cosmology textbook....

First

And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
And the evening and the morning were the third day. Genesis 1:9-13

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. Genesis 1:14-19

Full Definition of cosmology

a branch of metaphysics that deals with the nature of the universe
a theory or doctrine describing the natural order of the universe
a theory or doctrine describing the natural order of the universe
a branch of astronomy that deals with the origin, structure, and space-time relationships of the universe; also :  a theory dealing with these matter http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cosmology

And Then.... Again~!

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. Revelation 21:1-5

Simple Definition of metaphysics

the part of philosophy that is concerned with the basic causes and nature of things http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/metaphysics

~

Beloved, Man's "Scientific" Study Of Cosmology
Is Nothing More Than Man's Metaphysics

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called; 1 Timothy 6:20 (Webster Bible Translation)

The Philosophies Of Worlds Without Christ

Don't let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ. Colossians 2:8 (New Living Translation)

The False Hope Of Worlds Without End

Dear friends, this is the second letter I'm writing to you. In both letters I'm trying to refresh your memory. I want you to remember the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and what the Lord and Savior commanded you through your apostles.

First, you must understand this: In the last days people who follow their own desires will appear. These disrespectful people will ridicule [God's promise] by saying, "What's happened to his promise to return? Ever since our ancestors died, everything continues as it did from the beginning of the world." They are deliberately ignoring one fact: Because of God's word, heaven and earth existed a long time ago. The earth [appeared] out of water and was kept alive by water. Water also flooded and destroyed that world. By God's word, the present heaven and earth are designated to be burned. They are being kept until the day ungodly people will be judged and destroyed.

Dear friends, don't ignore this fact: One day with the Lord is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day. The Lord isn't slow to do what he promised, as some people think. Rather, he is patient for your sake. He doesn't want to destroy anyone but wants all people to have an opportunity to turn to him and change the way they think and act.

The day of the Lord will come like a thief. On that day heaven will pass away with a roaring sound. Everything that makes up the universe will burn and be destroyed. The earth and everything that people have done on it will be exposed.

All these things will be destroyed in this way. So think of the kind of holy and godly lives you must live as you look forward to the day of God and eagerly wait for it to come. When that day comes, heaven will be on fire and will be destroyed. Everything that makes up the universe will burn and melt. But we look forward to what God has promised-a new heaven and a new earth-a place where everything that has God's approval lives.

Therefore, dear friends, with this to look forward to, make every effort to have him find you at peace, without [spiritual] stains or blemishes. Think of our Lord's patience as an opportunity [for us] to be saved. This is what our dear brother Paul wrote to you about, using the wisdom God gave him. He talks about this subject in all his letters. Some things in his letters are hard to understand. Ignorant people and people who aren't sure of what they believe distort what Paul says in his letters the same way they distort the rest of the Scriptures. These people will be destroyed. Dear friends, you already know these things. So be on your guard not to be carried away by the deception of people who have no principles. Then you won't fall from your firm position. But grow in the good will and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Glory belongs to him now and for that eternal day! Amen. 2 Peter 3 (GOD'S WORD® Translation)

Love, Your Brother Joe

[post]

 

 

 

18 hours ago, FresnoJoe said:

On 6/5/2016 at 2:08 AM, post said:

 

the Bible isn't a cosmology textbook; it doesn't chronicle item-by-item how every atom was made when & where & why & how. what may have been billions of years of the implementation of carefully orchestrated design takes up maybe just a few words, maybe a few paragraphs of scripture. 

. . .

Full Definition of cosmology

a branch of metaphysics that deals with the nature of the universe
a theory or doctrine describing the natural order of the universe
a theory or doctrine describing the natural order of the universe
a branch of astronomy that deals with the origin, structure, and space-time relationships of the universe; also :  a theory dealing with these matter http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cosmology

 . . .

yes Joe  

but -- 

"Textbook" -- a standard work on that concerns itself with a particular subject and covers it in great depth and detail, used specifically for teaching and learning the intricacies of that subject. 
 

• a branch or subset of cosmology is star formation.
• "He made the stars also." (Genesis 1:16) -- not exactly teaching us about star formation in any great detail.

the Bible is a textbook on mankind's relationship with God. that is it's main subject. 
you wouldn't file it next to the astronomy or biology books in a library -- it would be with other books whose primary subject is the relationship of mankind with God. 

. . although, you and i wouldn't "shelve" it in a library anyhow, would we Joe? we'd have it out where it can be read. it is not like other books. ♥

i know you know what i meant. i know what you mean too. 
 

[other one]

I can't believe you guys are still discussing water creation...

[siegi91]

On May 24, 2016 at 9:18 PM, Ezra said:

Since everything that exists was created, there is no reason to say what you said above.  Unless you just want controversy. Genesis 1:1 says "the heaven and the earth", and water was found to be in both at creation (vv 6-9).

Water is a molecule that requires oxygen, which is not a primeval atom. Oxygen, like all heavier elements, has been sysnthesized inside massive stars by nuclear fusion and made available after their explosion.

 siegi 

 

[Guest Robert]

On 6/8/2016 at 3:13 PM, other one said:

I can't believe you guys are still discussing water creation...

Yeah...it had to be created. God certainly didn't call FedEx and order a shipment of it before He made the Earth.

[Ezra]

16 minutes ago, siegi91 said:

Water is a molecule that requires oxygen, which is not a primeval atom.

This is a mere presumption, since only God would know what was and what was not a primeval atom. The Bible tells us clearly that before anything else, water covered the face of the earth, which means that oxygen and hydrogen both came into existence at that very moment.

[siegi91]

Just now, Ezra said:

This is a mere presumption, since only God would know what was and what was not a primeval atom. The Bible tells us clearly that before anything else, water covered the face of the earth, which means that oxygen and hydrogen both came into existence at that very moment.

I was just addressing the current scientific knowledge about the origin of oxygen and heavier elements. We are pretty sure of that

 

 

 

[post]

53 minutes ago, Ezra said:

This is a mere presumption, since only God would know what was and what was not a primeval atom. The Bible tells us clearly that before anything else, water covered the face of the earth, which means that oxygen and hydrogen both came into existence at that very moment.

i'm not sure that the Bible tells us this is 'before everything else' -- certainly not before the earth, right? 
so it doesn't necessarily mean that H & O came into existence "right at that very moment" 
Genesis 1:2 say "water covered the surface of the deep" -- not the face of the earth. the earth was formless at that time per the same scripture; if it was formless, it did not have a face, which is a property of a form. i'm not even convinced that in this verse, "waters" are H2O. 

Genesis 1:1 describes that He created all things - both the earth that we stand on and the heavens all around us. it is after this that we are told about the waters being drawn up into seas. no detail whatsoever is given in verse 1, and some here posit that yom 4 isn't the time that the stars, sun & moon are actually created, but that they are 'set in place' or 'appointed' then for the governing of times and seasons on the earth. 
also, as previously noted, in verse 2, though the Spirit is hovering over "the waters" -- the text says clearly that the earth was formless. 
so a faithful reading of the text may include that star formation and the observed natural process that God has ordained for them took place before yom 2 or 3, and from hence the generation and distribution of these elements across the universe. 

He is no less God, and no less the Creator and Sustainer of all things if He worked in the same way then as He does now -- in accordance with the natural design and order that He has set in place everywhere in this cosmos that we look. 
 

[other one]

1 hour ago, RobertS said:

Yeah...it had to be created. God certainly didn't call FedEx and order a shipment of it before He made the Earth.

Well since we have no idea what was anywhere before God said let there be light, I could not really say that it wasn't around before...   that's true problem with these kinds of discussions.......  we don't know where God came from or what was....

[woundeddog]

okay let me settle this-- I was there and saw it all happen~~~~~~~~~~~ nothing existed before the first day (24 hours)  then God spoke it into existence--- there was not even a place for God to be----- think on that for awhile~~~~~~ It was just God and all God-- then he spoke all of creation into being-- that even includes the voids of  the universe-- there wasnt even an empty universe before the first day. The laws of physics didnt even exist-- God made them up so things would work in an orderly manner

 

Actually I wasnt really there that would be implying I was part of the Godhead which I certainly am not-- but I just said that to add credence to my statement--- lol

Edited June 19, 2016 by woundeddog
after thoughts