Christ on His own Throne.

[HAZARD]

On ‎15‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 11:57 AM, Marilyn C said:

I believe that to have a good understanding of eschatology we need to appreciate that -

 1.  Christ is the centre of God`s word,

 2. How Christ operates in the Godhead,

 3. Then to realise that Christ has His `own throne` from which all end-time events unfold.

This enables a Christ centred eschatology based on God`s purposes, instead of an events eschatology which can lead to many opinions of man.

 

Christ`s own Throne.

We know that when the Lord Jesus Christ ascended to glory, He sat down at the right hand of the Father. There He is interceding & building up the Body of Christ. Then in God`s timing Christ will leave this position & go to His own throne.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne, as I also overcame & sat down with my Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

 

Question – What do you know from scripture concerning Christ & His own throne?

 

(Note: this discussion concerns the `what, why, where & who` of this `throne, then later I will post another thread for the topic of `when it is set up.`

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Marilyn.

To him that overcomes, that's the centre of what its all about. There are many blessing God has promised those who overcome. I will mention a few;

We will be a pillar in God's temple (Rev. 3:12).

We will have God's name upon us (Rev. 3:12).

We will be Kings and priests with Him (Rev. 1:6) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

We will have power over nations (Rev. 2:26-27).

We will receive the Crown of eternal life (Rev. 2:10 ; 3:11).

[Retrobyter]

7 hours ago, Ezra said:

Since Retro believes that Heaven is the sky and God's Heaven is a *mythical place*, there would be little to gain by discussing Heaven with him.

Shalom, Ezra.

What's to discuss? It's really simple. The Greek word "ouranos" and the Hebrew word "shamaayim" both refer to what you can see from the ground looking upward. That's the way it is. Both of these words were translated as "heaven":

Genesis 1:20
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
KJV

Genesis 7:23
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
KJV

Genesis 9:2
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air (hashaamaayim), upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
KJV

Deuteronomy 28:25-26
25 The Lord shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.
26 And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air (hashamaayim), and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away.
KJV

And, that's just a SAMPLING of the verses from the OT. Four hundred twenty one times the word is used, and NOT ONE of those occurrences has to be from some "God's abode" other than our sky! From the NT, we have...

Matthew 16:1-4
1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven (ek tou ouranou).
2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky (ho ouranos) is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky (ho ouranos) is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky (tou ouranou); but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
KJV

The Pharisees and Sadducees wanted a "sign from the ouranos." Yeshua` GAVE THEM ONE! "Red sky (ouranos) at night, a sailor's delight; red sky (ouranos) at morning, sailors take warning!" They wanted a sign from the place YOU say God is; what Yeshua` gave them was what they were actually asking for!

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

What's to discuss? It's really simple. The Greek word "ouranos" and the Hebrew word "shamaayim" both refer to what you can see from the ground looking upward. That's the way it is. Both of these words were translated as "heaven":

But that's not where it ends. That is the first heaven, then we have the second heaven, and finally we have the third heaven (which is God's Heaven, and where the New Jerusalem and Paradise are located, and where sit the thrones of God and Christ).

It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)  How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. (2 Cor 12:1-4).

[Marilyn C]

14 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Tell me: What is so important about the gem stones that you would disregard what the text SAYS?

Revelation 4:1-3
1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
KJV

The jasper and sard stone describe HIM, the One who sits on the throne, not the throne itself! And, Yochanan said "LIKE" a jasper and a sard stone! He was comparing the two (or three) things in COLOR! And, the rainbow also is not about the throne directly; it's the AURA surrounding the throne, not the throne itself! And Yochanan again said, "in sight LIKE unto an emerald," again comparing the COLOR of this aura with that of an emerald.

Furthermore, the text later says,

Revelation 5:6-7
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
KJV

This passage clearly CONTRASTS the Lamb (who is obviously the Messiah Yeshua`) with the One who sits on the throne (from whom the Lamb takes the book)! Therefore, the passage in Rev. 4 is NOT talking about Christ's (the Messiah's) throne at all! Be careful not to fall prey to an allegorical spirit; most of the things you read have NOTHING TO DO WITH SYMBOLISM!

Hi Retrobyter,

It seems we disagree on this point.

Marilyn.

[FresnoJoe]

The LORD their God will save his people on that day as a shepherd saves his flock. They will sparkle in his land like jewels in a crown. Zechariah 9:16 (New International Version)

You will also be a crown of beauty in the hand of the LORD, And a royal diadem in the hand of your God. Isaiah 62:3 (New American Standard Bible)

[Marilyn C]

12 hours ago, Ezra said:

Since Retro believes that Heaven is the sky and God's Heaven is a *mythical place*, there would be little to gain by discussing Heaven with him.

Hi Ezra,

yes I agree.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

9 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Hi Marilyn.

To him that overcomes, that's the centre of what its all about. There are many blessing God has promised those who overcome. I will mention a few;

We will be a pillar in God's temple (Rev. 3:12).

We will have God's name upon us (Rev. 3:12).

We will be Kings and priests with Him (Rev. 1:6) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

We will have power over nations (Rev. 2:26-27).

We will receive the Crown of eternal life (Rev. 2:10 ; 3:11).

Hi Hazard,

Good points there, & a topic that will certainly come up when we are discussing when this throne is set up. (On another thread.)

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

I believe it is also important to understand the difference between the authority of the Godhead, (God`s throne) & the authority of this throne that is `set up.`

 

God`s Throne.

• It is eternal.

• It is the source of all authority.

• It is beyond all created realms.

 

The Throne `set up.`

• It is under the Godhead.

• It is appointed by God the Father.

• It is in the angelic realm.

 

 

God`s Eternal Throne. 

We know that God, (the Father, Son & Holy Spirit) have a throne beyond all created things – an eternal throne. We also know that when Christ ascended in His glorified body that He sat down at the right hand of the Father with the glory He had before He came to earth.

(Jesus) `being the brightness of His (Father`s) glory & the express image of His person, & upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.` (Heb. 1: 3)

 

From this eternal throne we know that the Lord Jesus Christ is interceding & building the Body of Christ.

`We have such a high priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a minister of the sanctuary …` (Heb. 8: 1 & 2)

 

Christ`s own Throne. 

However in God`s appointed time Jesus will `go to His own throne` ie receive the authority from the Father. This will be the highest authority in the created order in the third heaven, (under the Godhead). Christ told us about His own throne –

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on MY THRONE, as I also overcame & sat down with my Father on HIS THRONE.` (Rev. 3: 21)

 

I see that God the Father desires to honour His Son & present Him visibly to all, exalting Him to the highest place in all creation, (under the Godhead).

“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive power & riches & wisdom, & strength & honour& glory & blessing. “`(Rev. 5: 12)

 

[Marilyn C]

14 minutes ago, FresnoJoe said:

The LORD their God will save his people on that day as a shepherd saves his flock. They will sparkle in his land like jewels in a crown. Zechariah 9:16 (New International Version)

You will also be a crown of beauty in the hand of the LORD, And a royal diadem in the hand of your God. Isaiah 62:3 (New American Standard Bible)

Hi FresnoJoe,

Some of my favourite verses, thank you. Great promises to Israel.

Marilyn.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Marilyn C

[Marilyn C]

For Christ to be given this highest position of rulership in the created order, He must be accounted worthy. This indicates that He has fulfilled all the qualifications set down by God – legally & morally.

 

Legally – Christ needed to be born of the human race as they were given dominion over the earth, plus no angel will oversee the world. (Heb. 2: 5)

- to be born of the human race, as God gave man dominion over the earth.

`Inasmuch then as children have partaken of flesh & blood, He Himself (Jesus) likewise shared the same.` (Heb. 2: 14)

 

Then Christ needed to be born of the right lineage – the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Judah & the house of David.

-to be born of the nation of Israel of the tribe of Judah & the house of David.

`Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, ` to the (step) father `Joseph, son of David.`(Matt.1: 20 & 2: 1)

 

Morally – Christ needed to have fulfilled God`s law, live sinlessly & prevail over the enemy.

 

-  to have lived in the land of Israel & fulfil God`s Law.

`Behold, I (Jesus) have come to do your will, O God.` (Heb. 10: 9)

 

-  to have lived sinlessly.

`how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God,...` (Heb. 9: 14)

 

– to prevail against then enemy.

`having disarmed principalities & powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.` (Col. 2: 15)

 

These details clearly show that the Lord Jesus Christ, the ascended, glorified Son of Man & Son of God is the worthy one who will receive this exalted position of rulership over all creation.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2016 by Marilyn C