1 john 2:15-17 Is everything that involves fun, pleasure and entertainment is sinful? 1 John 2:15-17

[BreakingTheHabbitWithJesus]

Hey Brethren, I have a question.

I have never this question asked before, I have seen the questions like 'is everything a sin', 'is entertainment a sin' and 'is having fun a sin' but never have I seen the question asked in the context of 1 John 2:15-17.

Does 1 John 2:15-17 (the verses about not loving the world and the things of the world) teach that everything that involves fun, pleasure and entertainment is sinful?

Obviously there is bad and immoral entertainment out there and the Bible does talk about the pleasures of sin for a season (Hebrews 11:25), but is EVERYTHING that involves fun, pleasure and entertainment is sinful? things like non-hymnal music, hobbies, sports (I'm not a fan there but I know others are), video games, etc.

I saw one YouTube video where a Christian named Jefferson Bethke said that God made pleasurable things and they should produce thankfulness and a comment involved quotation of 1 John 2:15 as a rebuttal. Another example from the otherside is from Steven Anderson, the YouTube description (The description was written by a Christian named Matthew Stucky but it was for Steven Anderson's video) of one of his videos against television reads the following: "They will preach against some television shows but shows like the Andy Griffith Show will be praised behind the pulpit.  LINE BREAK. 1 John 2:15-16 "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. LINE BREAK. The Bible tells us not to love the world. The television and movies are of the world. " To be fair, he went into more detail about why he didn't approve of the show further in the description talking about how the show made a mockery of being a drunk and other things, but I just wanted to give you an idea of how the verses are used.

1 John 2:15-17 is part of the Bible and I'm not going to ignore it, Revelation 22:19 sends a severe warning against adding or taking away from the Bible, but I will be honest, I get nervous when hear the verses quoted because almost everytime I hear them quoted, the person quoting them is saying that EVERYTHING that involves fun, pleasure and entertainment is sinful.

I find it interesting that the Love of God is to keep his commandments and his commandments are not burdensome (1 John 5:3), and the commandments to love God with all my heart, soul and mind and to love my neighbor as myself are anything but burdensome, but the commandment to 'thou shalt not have fun' certainly is burdensome, and it's not that I am not willing to sacrifice pleasurable things for the cause of Christ, I certainly am, but I am burdened by the idea that pleasure on earth is evil within itself. I also keep what I hope is the correct interpretation of 1 John 2:15-17, which is to know that this earth is not our home and to have an focus on the everlasting life to come, to not follow ungodly desires (lusts of the flesh and lusts of the eyes) and not be prideful  (ths pride of life).

What are your thoughts? God Bless you all.

[RustyAngeL]

No all things that are fun and that have pleasure are sinful. You are talking about "worldly," things that don't line up with the Bible.  As Believers in Jesus we can have a lot of fun.  Your spirit within you in if your a are a believer will always give you a check if you are out of line.  Listen to that still small voice in you.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Breaking w/JESUS

     WElcome to Worthy,,,,,,,,,,as we(Christians) have been indwelled with the Holy Spirit we do have access to the Heart & Mind of Christ Jesus,WHO Abides in us,,,,,,,,,Christianity is a Relationship,,,,,,,,,the more you "feed" or put into a relationship of any kind,the more it grows,,,,,,,,the only difference between relationships with others compared to our Relationship with God is that as we don't only get closer & closer to the Lord we also start to change,we have different desires of the HEART,,,,,,,,,but only by a "renewing of the Mind",,,,,,,we truly walk in Spirit & in Truth

     Once upon a time I used to enjoy many things,as Paul says"When I was child I behaved like a child,,,,,,,," The more we grow & mature in our walk with Jesus the things that we once found pleasurable are unimportant ,unfulfilling,,,,,,,,we change,we truly transform into New Creatures,the old has passed away ,we are Born Again,,,,,,,,,some folks can be Born Again & remain an infant for all of their days on earth,,,,,,,,they are not "feeding" the spirit,there is little to no growth,,,,,,,,& they will still do basically the same things they have always done ,ignoring the promptings of the Holy Spirit,,,,,,,,But by "renewing the mind",reading the Word of God,spending time with Him,praying,praise,worship,fellowship with the Body of Christ,,,,,,,the spirit is being "fed" what it needs to grow,,,,,,,,,the heart change is effortless,the desire change is without intention,,,,,it is by the Power of the Holy Spirit,,,,,,,,

  One may ask,"But how does this happen?" It happens by forsaking one's "self",,,,,,,,Pray for a hunger & thirst for the Word of God,"listen" to that Still Small Voice,ask for the desires of your heart to change,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,seek the Lord & you cannot find Him without looking,,,,,,,,,,will He be found in the midst of unbelievers cussing & drinking? Will he be found in a house of ill repute? Will He be found in a TV show about aliens?     Jesus is IN US,earnestly seek Him inside your heart,,,,,,,He Knocks,open the door,,,,,,,,talk to Him,,,,,,,,the Joy of the Lord is the most fun,excitement,rush,thrill,you can ever imagine,,,,beyond your wildest dreams,,,,,,,,,,                               To God be the Glory                                                                                               With love-in Christ,Kwik

     

[missmuffet]

 Colossians 3:23 And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men

As a born again Christian I always have God as my number one focus in my life in everything I do and everything I say. I ask myself if what I am doing would please my Lord.

[Ezra]

Is everything that involves fun, pleasure and entertainment is sinful?

Good question. When you look around you, you see that the world is focused on entertainment, and billions of dollars are spent (squandered?) on mere entertainment.

But Christians need to distinguish between recreation and entertainment. If a Christian plays any kind of game after a hard day's work, that would be recreation (connected with rest and recuperation).  From time to time, the Lord would tell His disciples to come apart and rest a while.  That is legitimate.

However, if a Christian seeks entertainment for the sake of entertainment, or mere carnal pleasure, or to escape reality (a worldly attitude), then that is a different issue, and becomes sin.  The key is to determine the motive, and to assess what is the most important thing in our lives -- serving God, Christ and others, or serving ourselves. The people of the world are generally self-centered, but Christians are Christ-centered.

[post]

To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure.
In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.
(Titus 1:15)

what do you think this means? 
is it relevant, do you think? 

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, post said:

is it relevant, do you think? 

The relevance is to "Jewish fables and commandments of men" (verse 14), "teachings things which they ought not" (verse 11).  It would appear that this is an allusion to the Judaizers from the sect of the Pharisees, who had placed the commandments of men above the commandments of God. For example, they taught that ceremonial washing of hands and utensils was a method of purification, and dietary restrictions purified men, but Christ showed them the fallacy of this.

[post]

4 hours ago, Ezra said:

The relevance is to "Jewish fables and commandments of men" (verse 14), "teachings things which they ought not" (verse 11).  It would appear that this is an allusion to the Judaizers from the sect of the Pharisees, who had placed the commandments of men above the commandments of God. For example, they taught that ceremonial washing of hands and utensils was a method of purification, and dietary restrictions purified men, but Christ showed them the fallacy of this.

the direct context is that, yes -- specifically, instructing Titus on how to deal with the Cretans, who are by nature argumentative and liars, so probably quick to adopt just about any contrary stance to whatever it is they are being taught or advised, one major source of which would be the Judaizing influences that assailed the gospel almost everywhere it went.
but i get the sense that with the statement i quoted, Paul is giving a 'proverb' -- a statement that is true in many more senses and applications than the particular one that he is referring to in this letter . . ? 

[Ezra]

3 hours ago, post said:

but i get the sense that with the statement i quoted, Paul is giving a 'proverb' -- a statement that is true in many more senses and applications than the particular one that he is referring to in this letter . . ? 

One could certainly take "To the Pure All Things are Pure" as a Christian axiom.  But to what end? Since love of the world and the things of the world are already excluded, we could not apply that to worldliness, or lawlessness. 

This saying has to do with the contrast between religions and Bible Christianity.  Jesus already taught that to God external rituals mean nothing without faith, love, and righteousness.  But most religions -- which teach that man can earn his salvation -- insist on various purification rituals to keep their adherents "clean".  The Pharisees were the best example, but you could apply this to any religion (including False Christianity). 

However as far as entertainment goes, this proverb would not really serve.  Entertainment -- by definition -- caters to the flesh.

[enoob57]

I believe in the reality of where we are-> so be the meditation... A place we have given to one who is able to defeat us
should The Lord allow

Mt 24:24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
KJV

We gave it to satan by our obedience to his urgings... now this place is cursed by God so we, who once were, and they who
still remain in the darkness can sense the doom of the place- an empty void of the temporary...  Hence to attach ourselves
to this place knowing the manipulative power of the evil one is to be in this

1 Co 10:11-14
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.
KJV

An idol is anything created that you put before God... if this does not place concern in every heart then I do not know what
can... I have a daily examination time with The Lord about this and I know that He 'IS' rightfully to be placed where He naturally
'IS'-> Before all things~ whatever we shall come into contact 'IS' The Lord's creation and it is to be secondary to all considerations one
can put forth from their being... because of our smallness, in the created hierarchy of power, God in His Glory has seen fit to place
God The Holy Spirit within us... how shall we give an account for this reality in light of this?

Lk 12:48-49
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I if it be already kindled?
KJV

and to this accountability (all born of God) is drawn down into the very specific of eternal realities of this place

2 Pe 3:11
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
KJV

We see the outcome on the path of those who have traveled in both direction to that of perceived riches~ here
the first: the rich man who has given his life to the acquisition of the temporary

Mt 19:21-23

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
KJV
 

The other in more of an axiom of heart

Mt 6:2-4
2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
KJV
If one were to consider the requirement here of The Lord about the left hand not knowing the what the right hand doeth>.<
It could not be accomplished >unless< one lives in the value system of The Lord- where He has told us that He is not keeping
any of this place... thus what is in our hands is  the nothing that it is! But what we look to our Lord in the mind, will and emotion,
apart from all influence of here, in agreement of extent that He has made clear... 

In most simplistic reality we are to live here
Col 3:1-3
3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
KJV
even though we still remain in our unredeemed bodies in a place not of eternal keeping ... this is walking in the s/Spirit
and not in the flesh where we overcome its lust by the reckoning of it's deadness/separation to all that God is keeping!
Fill your s/Spiritual vessels with eternal things and reckon all else not worth keeping as that set aside for the fire...
Love, Steven