Bible passages( like in Psalms) that seem legalistic(and maybe even sanctimonious) Vs Colossians verses warnings against legalistic behavior

[bartmac123]

Some bible scripture verses(especially those in the Psalms) can seem legalistic and also sanctimonious.

Psalm 101:2-4

2 I will give heed to the blameless way. When will You come to me? I will walk within my house in the integrity of my heart. 3 I will set no worthless thing before my eyes; I hate the work of those who fall away; It shall not fasten its grip on me. 4 A perverse heart shall depart from me; I will know No evil.

But in the Colossians , Paul seems to warn people against legalistic behavior.  How should Christians view bible passages( like in Psalms) that seem legalistic(and maybe even sanctimonious) with Colossians verses warnings against legalistic behavior?

Colossians 2:18-23

18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, [c]taking his stand on visions he has seen, [d]inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and [e]ligaments, grows with a growth [f]which is from God. 20 If you have died with Christ [g]to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish [h]with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? 23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.

But in the Colossians , Paul seems to warn people against legalistic behavior. How should Christians view bible passages( like in Psalms) that seem legalistic(and maybe even sanctimonious) with Colossians verses warnings against legalistic behavior?

[other one]

Legalistic behavior may help people get along on planet earth, but will not put you in good standing eternally with the Lord...     The legalistic must be heart felt so as to naturally not do those things.    And one does this by loving God with everything and loving each other...   There are still legalistic things we need to do to live peacefully with each other, but those things will not give you a relationship with God.    One doesn't just not perform legalistic things, but in his/her heart must not even want to.

[BeyondET]

I don’t quite see where psalm 101 would be using legalistic/sanctimonious in those verses unless I’m misunderstanding the terms but was David placing worthless thing before his eyes, or being perverse knowing evil etc, those statements seems to imply he knew of them. Verse 1 is a appeal to God not quite getting the legalistic notion.

[choir loft]

On 3/27/2021 at 8:55 AM, bartmac123 said:

Some bible scripture verses(especially those in the Psalms) can seem legalistic and also sanctimonious.

Psalm 101:2-4

2 I will give heed to the blameless way. When will You come to me? I will walk within my house in the integrity of my heart. 3 I will set no worthless thing before my eyes; I hate the work of those who fall away; It shall not fasten its grip on me. 4 A perverse heart shall depart from me; I will know No evil.

But in the Colossians , Paul seems to warn people against legalistic behavior.  How should Christians view bible passages( like in Psalms) that seem legalistic(and maybe even sanctimonious) with Colossians verses warnings against legalistic behavior?

Colossians 2:18-23

18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, [c]taking his stand on visions he has seen, [d]inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and [e]ligaments, grows with a growth [f]which is from God. 20 If you have died with Christ [g]to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish [h]with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? 23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.

But in the Colossians , Paul seems to warn people against legalistic behavior. How should Christians view bible passages( like in Psalms) that seem legalistic(and maybe even sanctimonious) with Colossians verses warnings against legalistic behavior?

Religious types who accuse God's Holy Word of having a sanctimonious attitude know neither the Bible they criticize nor the LAW they disdain.  However their anti-semitic attitude does tend to convey the sulfurous stench of Dante's 9th level of hell into Bible studies everywhere.  

WHICH LAW DO YOU HATE?

For the information of the casual browser of limited passages of the Bible, as well as limited understanding, be it known unto them there are two laws.  One of the LAWS was given by God to Moses and is called the LAW of Grace.   The other was formulated by the Jewish rabbinate during the Babylonian captivity and is generally referred to as the law of works.

In Matthew 5:17 Jesus is quoted as saying, "I did not come to ABOLISH the LAW.  I came to fulfill it."  If the LAW is not destroyed or deleted in some manner, then it is fully in effect.   Indeed Matthew 5:18 also quotes Jesus as saying "not one jot or tittle shall disappear from the LAW..."  Jots and tittles are the tiny marks one sees written with Hebrew lettering. They magnify or otherwise clarify what is meant by the letters they accompany.  In other words, THE LAW IS STILL IN EFFECT.  Those that deny it or otherwise reject God's LAW prove themselves unworthy of eternal life for one cannot be saved apart from the LAW.

Jesus lived His whole life in absolute observance of the LAW as did St. Paul.  By today's standards Jesus would have been called a Karaite Jew.  Such persons reject the Talmud - the law of works formulated by the rabbinate.  Such persons embrace Torah, the first five books of the Bible.  They also teach from other books of the Tanakh (prophets & writings).  When Jesus or Paul speak against the law they are generally expressing their opposition to the law of works, the Talmud.  This is one of the reasons Jesus was rejected by most of the pharisees.  

Torah came from God to Moses.  (grace)

Talmud came from the Jewish rabbinate. (works)

These are the two laws we need to be aware of when we study the Tanakh/Old Testament and the New Testament/B'rit Hashanah.

Thus we see that the Bible as conveyed to illiterate post-protestant religious types is God's gracious gift and is consistent with its theme.  The only inconsistency and hypocrisy is on the part of those who pretend to know what they're writing about when they accuse God of hypocrisy.  Therefore all those who follow Christ are encouraged to "study to show yourselves approved".  (2 Tim 2:15)

There's a great deal more to be learned and shown regarding this law business.  Most post-protestant religious types live in a bubble of ignorance and anti-semitism - refusing to educate themselves regarding God's gracious gift of the Torah/LAW.  

Possible retorts to this post will no doubt accuse me of being a Judaiser or misrepresenting grace.  Let's have them.  I can't wait.  

Regarding the LAW, we are saved by GRACE so as to please God according to the LAW's precepts.  Grace helps us do so, not to ignore the LAW altogether.  The concept is easy to grasp if one isn't predisposed to reject it altogether.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....  

 

[Willa]

The psalms and all of the Old Testament was written to Jews. After Moses all Jews were under the Mosaic law.  There were conditions to having a covenant relationship with God.  If they obey the laws, God will bless them.  Now days Christians are no longer under the law.  However, if we do the 10 commandments  out of gratitude for all Christ has done for us, we will certainly be happier and God will still bless us for our desire to honor Him.

In the Abrahamic covenant God put him to sleep and God alone passed between the halved meat to confirm the covenant.  In Christ's covenant Jesus sealed it with His blood in the place of all sinful mankind so God alone again sealed the covenant. Nothing is required for us to do to receive it.  This was a covenant of grace.  None of us is worthy of God's kindness  and forgiveness through Christ's blood.  It is a free gift requiring no works on our part.  It only requires saving faith which also is a free gift from God.  These gifts  are undeserved and can be refused or never received and opened or applied by us.  No works are required so no one can boast.  We can only rejoice in them and thank Him, receiving Him as our Lord God and Savior.  Through receiving Christ as being the God/man sent to us from our Father in heaven,  God bestows His Spirit upon us and makes us His own children.  John 1.  

In Psalm 101 David is still repenting of his affair with Bathsheba and murdering her husband.  Repentance is forsaking our wicked ways and determining to do what is right in God's eyes.  We still need to do this a Christians, even though we fail time after time.  We will not be truly happy and feel God's blessing and guidance when sin comes between us and Him.  This is true when trying to live in harmony with a spouse as well.  We need to keep clean slates to lead happy lives.

If you have questions, please ask and I will give you verses and explain it better.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sits on the right hand of God.

Put to death therefore, your members which are upon the land:
     fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and greed, which is idolatry:
For which sake the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience:
In which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
But now ye also putt off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Lie not to one another, seeing that you have put off the old man with his deeds;
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him.
Where there is neither Jew nor Greek.. Christ is all in all.

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved,
    tender mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind,
meekness, patience; bearing with one another, and forgiving one another...
Let the word of Christ [Luke 6:27-49 love] dwell in you richly in all wisdom [1 Tim 6:3-4]
teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs
singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus,
giving thanks to God the Father by Him.

Colossians 3:1,5-17

[choir loft]

On 6/3/2021 at 9:08 PM, Willa said:

The psalms and all of the Old Testament was written to Jews. After Moses all Jews were under the Mosaic law.  There were conditions to having a covenant relationship with God.  If they obey the laws, God will bless them.  Now days Christians are no longer under the law.  However, if we do the 10 commandments  out of gratitude for all Christ has done for us, we will certainly be happier and God will still bless us for our desire to honor Him.

In the Abrahamic covenant God put him to sleep and God alone passed between the halved meat to confirm the covenant.  In Christ's covenant Jesus sealed it with His blood in the place of all sinful mankind so God alone again sealed the covenant. Nothing is required for us to do to receive it.  This was a covenant of grace.  None of us is worthy of God's kindness  and forgiveness through Christ's blood.  It is a free gift requiring no works on our part.  It only requires saving faith which also is a free gift from God.  These gifts  are undeserved and can be refused or never received and opened or applied by us.  No works are required so no one can boast.  We can only rejoice in them and thank Him, receiving Him as our Lord God and Savior.  Through receiving Christ as being the God/man sent to us from our Father in heaven,  God bestows His Spirit upon us and makes us His own children.  John 1.  

In Psalm 101 David is still repenting of his affair with Bathsheba and murdering her husband.  Repentance is forsaking our wicked ways and determining to do what is right in God's eyes.  We still need to do this a Christians, even though we fail time after time.  We will not be truly happy and feel God's blessing and guidance when sin comes between us and Him.  This is true when trying to live in harmony with a spouse as well.  We need to keep clean slates to lead happy lives.

If you have questions, please ask and I will give you verses and explain it better.

Jesus said, "I DID NOT COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW, I CAME TO FULFILL IT." (Matt 5:17)

The last time I looked the Bible was offered to all - gentile and Jew alike.  It's words are applicable to all SINNERs Jew and gentile alike.  Do you read the New Testament?  You do well, but when you disregard those references made by the NT to the Tanakh (Old Testament) you do err.   What is the difference between OT and NT, do you know?  The LAW is not destroyed or abolished, but fulfilled BY CHRIST JESUS.  

Those that know not the LAW and who are obviously anti-Semitic in their theology if not their liturgy cannot and WILL NOT understand the moral spiritual underpinnings/foundation for that which was once called Christianity.   Jesus fulfilled the LAW, but those who reject it or don't know it at all have no idea what the Master was talking about.

There are those who accuse of legalism.  

What is wrong with legalism in a society that is riddled with murder, thievery, adultery, occultism, lies, false religion and all manner of sexual licentiousness?   Nothing is wrong with the LAW.   Nothing at all.  America could use a little legalism.  We are all of us under the wrath of God because of the importance we place in our opinions as opposed to the Word of God.   

There are those who accuse of Judaizing.  

One could do worse, I admit.  I seek here not to promote Jewish tradition, but DO wish to point out that CHRISTIAN TRADITION CANNOT SAVE either.  Such a tradition is today composed of members of a dead religion that use bits of scripture (only the NT of course) as a corrupt form of religious slogans and buzz words.  It means nothing to those who use them because they only parrot the words.  Devoid of spirit, the modern church is now a hollow shell of its former glory.

Heed these words and heed them well.  

The wrath of God is near to us - truly at the door.  If you think COVID was something, history will bear out that it was only a warm up period.  Something much worse and much more wicked is coming.  It will reach into every home, every institution, every government office and every imaginable aspect of society.  It will wreak havoc upon everyone.  Only those who know and understand and embrace the spirit of the LAW will be spared.

The purpose of the LAW is to convict of SIN.  

This godless nation has turned its back upon righteousness BY THE LAW and has embrace all the works of the devil and its kingdom.  Where does the love of God go when wrath turns every minute of suffering into hours of fear?   The time to repent is at hand.

Instead of arguing AGAINST God's holy LAW it is time to embrace it and to hope its direction will lead each of us to mercy and hope and salvation from above.  The 1st five books of the Bible are also known as Torah or Pentateuch.  Jesus quoted Deuteronomy more than any other book.  ALL the apostles quoted from the Tanakh (Old Testament).  If you will not read Torah, then try the book of Hebrews.  It's the abridged version of Torah and speaks of the LAW throughout.

We will certainly not find it in our churches, debauched and corrupt as they are, and we won't find it in empty TRADITION be it Jewish or Christian.

Repent and be saved - or be swept away when the wrath of God is revealed BY THE LAW.   It is coming soon.   Time to get ready and abandon foolish arguments against God's Word.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by choir loft

[Vincent Haryanto]

I looked at the comments above from Some Royal members and Senior members and I agree with most of the above comments.

I also would like to give some additional comment.  Regarding this Psalm

Psalm 101:2-4

2 I will give heed to the blameless way. When will You come to me? I will walk within my house in the integrity of my heart. 3 I will set no worthless thing before my eyes; I hate the work of those who fall away; It shall not fasten its grip on me. 4 A perverse heart shall depart from me; I will know No evil.

I think we as Christian should follow the above scripture.  Because God has been so good to us that God give us His only son Jesus to  come to the earth, crucified and die so that our sins can be forgiven. Considering God's love , we as Christian should love God with all our heart and might .    To show that we love God , we should follow all God commands in the Old testaments (Mostly just the Moral Laws such as the Ten Commandments ( We should have no other God except our Father God in Heaven, we should not kill, we should not steal , we should not covet and some other Moral laws in the Old testaments ).   We also should follow Jesus' commands in the new testaments that we can see by reading Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.  We can only do the above commands with God's strength that live inside of each one of us . Imagine we have a Very Powerful God Holy spirit that create the sky, seas, human , and the powerful God Holy Spirit live inside of us that enable us to do all of His commands.

 

Thank you.

[Leonardo Von]

Quote

Bible passages( like in Psalms) that seem legalistic(and maybe even sanctimonious) Vs Colossians verses warnings against legalistic behavior

Follow Jesus doesn't mean flout or overlook the laws, but fulfill them for love.

[choir loft]

On 7/4/2021 at 9:55 AM, Leonardo Von said:

Follow Jesus doesn't mean flout or overlook the laws, but fulfill them for love.

I agree with your brief assessment of the normal Christian life.

What is often overlooked is that statements made by Jesus and the apostles opposing the law often refer to two laws.  Christians know little or nothing about the LAW of Grace/Mosaic LAW and less about the law of works/Talmudic law.  Confusion results on the part of Biblically illiterate Christians.  In fact there is NO confusion in scripture itself.

The LAW of Grace was given by God to Moses and the world.  It speaks of God's plan of redemption and how it is to be accomplished by means of the sacrifice God provides.

The law of works was written by the Jewish rabbinate during their captivity in Babylon.  It speaks of Jewish tradition and how salvation can be accomplished by deeds and contribution$.  

In Jesus' time, as well as our own, it is Talmudic law/law of works that is studied in Jewish Yeshiva and preached in most synagogues on shabbat.  In reference to Mosaic LAW/law of Grace Jesus said He didn't come to abolish the LAW, but to fulfill it. (Matthew 5:17)

Jesus and His apostles also made mention of Jewish addiction to their cultural and religious traditions and claimed they would save anyone either.  It can also be said that Christian traditions won't save anyone any more than Jewish traditions might.  Santa Claus the Easter Bunny and the Halloween pumpkin & witch won't save anybody despite the church's attention being paid to these religious occasions as though they would.  It is only the blood of Jesus Christ, specified by Mosaic LAW, that saves.  Thus it can be said that apart from this LAW nobody can be saved.

America has become a lawLESS society.  

Every day we are exposed to violence corruption and murder on a national scale.  Much of this is sanctioned and approved by special interest groups for their own reasons - militias of the lunatic fringe, ethnic groups inspired by entitlement attitudes and even the police.  Major denominations of the Christian church have denied the Bible itself as the inspired and unique Word of God.  Social media destroys any reference to a socially acceptable standard of behavior or the consequences of toxic attitudes.   Suicide rates among our young are approaching epidemic proportions.   YET THE CHURCH CONTINUES TO REJECT ANCIENT LAW given by God for the benefit of society and solid Biblical teaching.  As a result everyone is their own god and everyone acts according to whatever religious celebrities dictate as behavior and belief.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

Chief among the offenders are our churches.  They teach free forgiveness that isn't suggested in the Bible.  Repentance must precede any relationship with God in Christ, but it is commonly denied and even opposed.  In these days of lawLESSness only a rigid understanding and application of the LAW can provide a solid rock upon which to build and sustain our lives.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...