The “sin lists” in the NT condemn all habitual sinners!

[enoob57]

The war of Rom 7 exist in all God's children... I have grown enough now to understand that what is of flesh remains of flesh and what is of s/Spirit remains as Spirit. We are sealed in the Holy Spirit and we are given the duty of obedience in the renewed mind formed from God's Word causing us to be alienated from this place we have began in... I purposely bring my body into subjection to obtain glory for my Lord but it does not change nor can it! The body is not redeemed but still desires the pleasures of sin and with this I strive to walk in s/Spirit to obtain the power to deny my flesh in this place. You may list and keep timed accounts of habitual activity but in the end it is His knowing you that determines salvation from eternal separation from God. We may say this and we may say that but it is God Who has spoken the eternal Words of Life and we must conform to those Words in the living now or we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us... Love, Steven

[kwikphilly]

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Amen, bless you dear sister. I am always  encouraged by his blessed assurances, He will complete the work he starts in us and remind myself often of the command we are given, Judge nothing before it is time. Many things are hidden from us but when the Lord appears we will see the hidden things and be able to judge righteously.                                                              Reinitin

And Gods Blessings to you also Beloved........

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But if in your mind and heart you say, yea its sin or its not that bad of  sin, and then before you know it its easier and easier to sin and then wickedness increases and your attitude is it dont matter... this is when you have unrestrained sin.  this is sinning willfully.  for living recklessly like that you got to repent and until you do, you and God are not having a good relationship.  Being a slave to sin... or being a slave to Jesus.  Dead in trespass or dead to self.    Thank God for life in Christ. 

                                                                                              Cletus

Well said Brother

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f someone's idea of what it means to be a Christian is wrapped up in their participation in the external Christian community, they are in danger of losing their life in Hell when they step out into eternity.  And those are the hardest people to witness to, because they mentally assent to the correct teachings, but have never embraced Christ.  They do good things and do the right things, but have never put faith in Jesus for salvation.   They mistake mental assent for authentic faith.  And that is a deadly mistake to make.                                                    Shiloh

[Reinitin]

2 hours ago, enoob57 said:

The war of Rom 7 exist in all God's children... I have grown enough now to understand that what is of flesh remains of flesh and what is of s/Spirit remains as Spirit. We are sealed in the Holy Spirit and we are given the duty of obedience in the renewed mind formed from God's Word causing us to be alienated from this place we have began in... I purposely bring my body into subjection to obtain glory for my Lord but it does not change nor can it! The body is not redeemed but still desires the pleasures of sin and with this I strive to walk in s/Spirit to obtain the power to deny my flesh in this place. You may list and keep timed accounts of habitual activity but in the end it is His knowing you that determines salvation from eternal separation from God. We may say this and we may say that but it is God Who has spoken the eternal Words of Life and we must conform to those Words in the living now or we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us... Love, Steven

Our Flesh will die because of sin. Our new spirit is life because of Christ.

[Heb 13:8]

13 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Okay so than if you sin you are not saved because John also says in the same passage :

1 John 3:6

6 Any one who abides in him does not sin;* any one who sins has not seen him, nor has he known him.

1 John 3:10

10 By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother.

The only person who was sinless was Jesus. The work of the cross is finished. The blood of Jesus covers all sin. 1 John 1:8.

5 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Habitual sinners, those who show no evidence of salvation, were never saved to start with.   Our problem is that we take for granted claims of salvation without question, without challenge.   I John and II John were written so that we could know the difference between true and false professions of faith.

There are people who claim to be "Christians"  for reasons that have nothing to do with Jesus.  They have religion, but not Jesus. 

If a person claims to have Christ but neglects Scripture, lives sinfully on a regular basis, and gets offended if you challenge their claim of being a Christian, you have a good indication that they are not saved.

If someone challenges your faith, and you are a genuine follower of Christ, that should not offend you.   It should never offend a genuine beleiver if someone challenges their profession of faith.   If anything, it is a perfect time to give your testimony.  

If person A comes up to person B and says, "How do you know you're a Christian?" And person B responds with, ,"How dare you!!!"  That tells you what you need to know.   An authentic follower of Jesus will respond with their testimony of salvation.

We have to stop thinking that a profession of faith equals genuine faith, or genuine salvation.

And to the "sin lists"  that the OP rattled off...   Those lists were not given to warn Christians that they were going to lose salvation.   Rather, they were given to draw the line of distinction between those who practiced those sins and prove they are not in the Kingdom,  and authentic followers of Jesus.   Those who practice sin regularly, prove they are unregenerate.   

If someone's idea of what it means to be a Christian is wrapped up in their participation in the external Christian community, they are in danger of losing their life in Hell when they step out into eternity.  And those are the hardest people to witness to, because they mentally assent to the correct teachings, but have never embraced Christ.  They do good things and do the right things, but have never put faith in Jesus for salvation.   They mistake mental assent for authentic faith.  And that is a deadly mistake to make.

Amen.

[enoob57]

3 hours ago, Reinitin said:

Our Flesh will die because of sin. Our new spirit is life because of Christ.

in my heart good riddens...

 

[Leonardo Von]

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The “sin lists” in the NT condemn all habitual sinners!

Yeah. Our whole life ought to be consecrated to Jesus Christ.

[choir loft]

On 7/6/2016 at 6:01 PM, Rick_Parker said:

Once again, we are saved by what we believe, not how we behave. If you believe that you have to perform works (stop sinning) in order to maintain your salvation, then you are believing a different gospel than the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You are also taking the responsibility for your own salvation.

Belief means nothing for the devil also believes. (James 2:19)

R E A D   T H E   B O O K   O F  J A M E S.

All who seek to follow Christ Jesus are required to REPENT of their SIN, according to the LAW.    

- The LAW convicts us of SIN, which drives us to the altar of mercy to REPENT; to cease deny and refuse to SIN any more in life.  

- There is NO forgiveness apart from REPENTANCE for SIN.  

- If God accepts our REPENTANCE we are justified before God.

- Having been justified we are granted the gift of GRACE which enables us to live ACCORDING TO THE LAW, apart from SIN, before God and man.  

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

Christian tradition is hollow and futile.  It has no purpose except to enlarge the bank accounts of those who promote tradition for sale.  Christian tradition won't save anybody.

Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Halloween pumpkin, the Virgin Mary and Holy Communion won't justify or save anybody.  These traditions are tissue thin religious aberrations that God neither honors nor accepts.  

"I hate, I despise your feasts, and I will take no delight in your solemn assemblies." - Amos 5:21  

Belief is not a rubber stamp of some deities' approval. It is the working of God within us that inspires us to WORK unto REPENTANCE according to His LAW.

Faith without works is dead (James 2:26), which is why the apathetic Protestant church in America today is a joke.  Their congregations are only concerned with a dog and pony show on Sunday morning (*).  Spiritual responsibility is not part of their gospel message.  Sloppy agape and greasy grace are the themes taught today - inspired of the devil and human passive indifference. It is not of God.  

Belief without repentance won't save anybody.

Read Exodus and Leviticus.

REPENTANCE means to deny SIN and all its works.  

There is no salvation without it.    One must cease and desist from SIN in order to receive the gift of salvation and to walk in it.

"whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple" - Jesus as quoted by Luke 14:27 

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(*) Heavy entertainment production is a key ingredient in Protestant worship these days.  If a live performance isn't financially available then pre-recorded performances are employed.  It's all about the SHOW.  There is no worship value in show biz.  Some Protestant leaders know this but do it anyway because without it donation$ would decline and their salary would be affected.

"Protestant clergy don't believe in anything except their well-being and office". - Adolph Hitler

Edited October 30, 2021 by choir loft

[Omegaman 3.0]

On 10/30/2021 at 5:38 AM, choir loft said:

There is no salvation without it.    One must cease and desist from SIN in order to receive the gift of salvation and to walk in it.

I think you have this somewhat backwards, though your heart is in the right place, and yes, repentance is needed, as there is no salvation without it. Where I think you have the cart before the horse, is not that we do not repent in order to receive salvation. 

You referred to salvation as a gift, but you should think about that wording.

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Death is what we get for sin, because we have earned it, it is a wage. Eternal life, salvation, is a free gift, we do nothing to earn it. We cannot repent out of sheer will power, our sin nature does not let us.

“None is righteous, no, not one;

no one understands;

no one seeks for God.

All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;

no one does good,

not even one.”

No one understands, no one seeks God, no one does good, not even one!

For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

That is the human condition, we are not capable of repentance on our own. We cannot even understand the things of God, until we have His Spirit.

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

We must be in Jesus, or we are powerless.

I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

If we can do nothing, we cannot repent. We are slaves to sin. (See Romans 6). Slaves to sin, do not repent, they need to be born again, born from above, to have a new nature and is able to obey, able to repent. It depends on God to work in us, not us working our way to God. In Christ, we have the tools. (1 Cor 10:13)

In Acts 11:18, we read that “to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.” And in 2 Timothy 2:25, Paul says that we must gently instruct those who oppose us in the hope that “God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth.”

It is God who grants repentance. We do not repent and then get the "Gift" of salvation. Gifts are free, you do not work for them.

To be saved, we must be born from above, we need a new nature, the Spirit gives us that. (John 3)

The bottom line is that we are spiritually blind, spiritually deaf, hard hearted, slaves to sin and dead in them! We need to be rescued, we cannot save ourselves with works of repentance.

Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.

So, the other bottom line is, that we so not repent to get salvation, we repent, because we have been changed, we repent because we ARE saved. The person who has merely professed Christ, and continues in sin, has every reason to wonder if they really have a new nature, without that new nature, we are not saved,

As born again people he hate sin, and really want to repent, and we are able, we have the tools. Our love of Christ is shown in our obedience to Him, obeying is something that now comes naturally, even though there is still part of our old nature, sin living in us. (Romans 7). Being born again equals a changed life. Not everyone who is saved, obeys God completely, we grow at different rated, but I think a lot of that is mostly us, not a shortcoming of His. However, we do grow, we do progress. There are some ups and downs in our lives, but the general trend is upward. If we do not greive at our sin, and earnestly try to live a Christlike live, than are we really saved?

So, as believers we have an obligation to repent as God has enabled us and caused us to desire earnestly.

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

 

[Bawb]

On 7/6/2016 at 6:01 PM, Rick_Parker said:

Once again, we are saved by what we believe, not how we behave. If you believe that you have to perform works (stop sinning) in order to maintain your salvation, then you are believing a different gospel than the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You are also taking the responsibility for your own salvation.

James 2:18-19 18-But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19-You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that— and shudder. 20-O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?…

Also Matthew 7:15 states: You Will Know Them by Their Fruits...

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Bawb

[Omegaman 3.0]

Now, I want to add, that this is an old thread, that someone decided to revive. I am not sure that it really belongs under the topic of Apologetics, and these most recent posts would suggest moving it to the topic of Soteriology, in the Theology section.

I people want to discuss the rolls of works for salvation versus works from salvation. Paul speaking of how salvation is obtaineds says in part:

So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

and if that was not clear enough, he said to the Ephesians:

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 

Bu grace, NOT THE RESULT OF WORKS. Unfortunately, those who believe in the doctrines of grace, sometimes don;t read further, where it says:

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Good works are what God's chosen were created for, and it is what we do, IF we are His, and so . . .

Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.

Now, let's do some good works and keep our posts relevant to the OP and to the thread area that are posts are in. If you want to debate the nuances of salvation, do it in the salvation section, that is what it was created for.