Once saved always saved?

[HAZARD]

Nadab and Abihu, the priests and holy men of God were cut off because of sin (Lev. 10:1-20; Num. 3:4). The past favour or Grace of God did not save them in the day of their sin. God soon proved to them that once in grace always in grace was not true when sin is committed.

Korah, Da6ham, Abiram, priests and holy men of God as well as 250 princes and many common people in the redeemed nation of Israel were in God's favour or grace, but were cut off in the day of rebellion (Num. 16).

Balaam, a true prophet of the Lord until he sinned and rebelled against the Lord, falling from His grace and favour. He schemed to get his reward and was killed by the sword of Israel (Num.22:22-35; 23:4-5, 12, 16; 24:4, 16; 31:16; 2 Pet. 2:15; Jud 11; Rev. 2:14).

Achan, a man in the days of Joshua, whose sin was so great that God refused to bless the nation of Israel further runtil the sin was judged. If he had been a sinner before this God would have punished him before this; therefore we know that he was in God's favour and grace until he broke the law, and was executed (Josh.7:1, 11-15, 22-26).

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[TehMill]

7 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Nadab and Abihu, the priests and holy men of God were cut off because of sin (Lev. 10:1-20; Num. 3:4). The past favour or Grace of God did not save them in the day of their sin. God soon proved to them that once in grace always in grace was not true when sin is committed.

Korah, Da6ham, Abiram, priests and holy men of God as well as 250 princes and many common people in the redeemed nation of Israel were in God's favour or grace, but were cut off in the day of rebellion (Num. 16).

Balaam, a true prophet of the Lord until he sinned and rebelled against the Lord, falling from His grace and favour. He schemed to get his reward and was killed by the sword of Israel (Num.22:22-35; 23:4-5, 12, 16; 24:4, 16; 31:16; 2 Pet. 2:15; Jud 11; Rev. 2:14).

Achan, a man in the days of Joshua, whose sin was so great that God refused to bless the nation of Israel further runtil the sin was judged. If he had been a sinner before this God would have punished him before this; therefore we know that he was in God's favour and grace until he broke the law, and was executed (Josh.7:1, 11-15, 22-26).

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Yes their punishment was death, PHYSICAL death, you interpret it as damnation...this is the same as the passages in Hebrews

[TehMill]

13 hours ago, HAZARD said:

1 Peter 5.

1 He exhorts the elders to feed their flocks;
5 the younger to obey;
8 and all to be sober, watchful, and constant in the faith;
9 and to resist the cruel adversary the devil.

1 Peter 5:6, Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
7, Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

Here is another warning to be,

8, Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Yes FEED the flock, stop beating them, you can't flog sheep, they will just collapse on you and lay down to die, you have to lead them gently, having a mind for the ewes and their newborn, the weak of the flock.

Your doctrine cares not for the flock but tears them

You present the flock with God as the adversary, you make HIM to be the roaring lion walking around seeking someone to devour.

[FresnoJoe]

8 minutes ago, TehMill said:

Yes FEED the flock, stop beating them, you can't flog sheep, they will just collapse on you and lay down to die, you have to lead them gently, having a mind for the ewes and their newborn, the weak of the flock.

Your doctrine cares not for the flock but tears them

You present the flock with God as the adversary, you make HIM to be the roaring lion walking around seeking someone to devour.

Cling To Jesus

For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life. John 3:16 (Amplified Bible, Classic Edition)

For He Is LORD

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

He makes me to lie down in green pastures: he leads me beside the still waters.

He restores my soul: he leads me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Psalms 23:1-3 (American King James Version)

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

[1to3]

On 2016-08-22 at 4:43 AM, kwikphilly said:

Fantastic Scripture reference from George......& the point I would love to get across for the OSAS .subscribers is that it is not such a cut & dry issue,there is not OSAS or NOT OSAS,it is kind of a "both right" and here is why......

      The spirit of the BEliever has Received a GUARANTEED Seal of Redemption......that "guarantee" means that even though the flesh may yield to temptation from time to time,man can *& weill trip up,stumble ,fall & make MISTAKES........this is of NO Consequence to the spirit,which shall be Redeemed(yes SAVED)

      The person that continues in sin is "handed over to satan" so that they wiil learn the hard way & most certainly suffer the reprocussions & ramifications that are the consequences of sin.......by the Brethren having nothing more to do with that Brother they will hopefully & prayefully learn their lesson & make a wiilful decision to STOP SINNING & return to the Fold(no harm /no foul)  you see,we can make MISTAKES & we cannot lose our Salvation

      Now,this is what I believe most folks fail to understand & realize why this can be a dangerous mindset.......By contnually yielding to the flesh(temptation)the heart can harden if the Believer ignores Holy Spirit  & willfully & deliberately keeps choosing to disobey,......think about any Relationship that you do not nurture,water ,invest anything in......can you fall out of love & eventually be attracted(carnally) to another that seems more appealing? Of course,continuing on the path of willful disobedience can lead to adultery & the Believer can choose to serve satan......Free Will is always there,the choice is always ours to make & life is full of choices,,,one can CHOOSE to give up their Salvation,,,,,therefore I do not believe OSAS                                                                                       With love-in Christ,Kwik

 

I agree with what Kwik  wrote, not just because it scripturaly reasons with me, but also because i sadly have experienced this in my life to the point of questioning myself, am I truly saved? or am I one of those that has been chosen for hell no matter how much I want to be with God and His presence for ever.

I agree with: ..."By continually yielding to the flesh(temptation)the heart can harden if the Believer ignores Holy Spirit  & willfully & deliberately keeps choosing to disobey, "   ...  " By continually yielding to the flesh(temptation)the heart can harden if the Believer ignores Holy Spirit  & willfully & deliberately keeps choosing to disobey,. "

 

So yes, I believe that our hearts can become "seared" if we willfully continue to sin even with the many warnings from the Holy Spirit of God that we are going the wrong way.

I think when you come to understand this, you also gain the understanding of the term "the fearing of the Lord is the beginning of His wisdom."

Yes Christ Jesus Is the good shepherd, and when He sees one of His sheep going astray, He will g out of His way and go calling for them and them and bring them back into His fold. If you hear His voice and call back to you, then you belong to Him, He is your shepherd and you are His sheep

See John ch 10.

But we cannot fool ourselves either , sin is sin and sin destroys.

If and when we are truly saved, we should want to get closer and closer to God, be willing to follow Christ Jesus and be willing to be transformed by His Holy Spirit now working in us, and build a close relationship with Him on a daily basis, and most definitely we will want God to remove ALL of our shortcomings, so to become more and more the child of God He always wanted for us to be.

It may not always happen instantly that all our bad habits are gone at once, ( but it can happen) but the Holy Spirit of God is a very gentle Spirit, and when He shows us that we are in the wrong, He gently nudges us step by step and allows us to SEE we are in the wrong, and IS there to help us and guide us on the right path. His path to LIFE, life more abundantly, his path to wholesome righteousness.

I think then here is the blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, when we become so hard of heart to the point where we completely reject Him and His warning to us. Because then we are no longer caring and fully believing in the consequences of sins or the Power of HIS might and we stop recognizing Him as out TRUE shepherd.

I know that I still make mistakes. I still can get duped, I still can fall, but when I fall, I believe that if I recognize it and quickly try to correct myself from that particular sin mistake by coming to the cross and asking Christ Jesus to forgive me, heal me and take away my shortcomings and cover me and wash me through and through with His divine Blood, than I am truly covered and acceptable, one of His sheep, to one day reunite with God in eternity. But everyday is a new test of faith.

Virtue that is not tested is not true virtue.

But if I willfully continue in sin, knowing that I am willfully disobeying the Holy Spirit of God, and do absolutley nothing about it,not coming to the cross of Christ Jesus with it, then my heart can become more and more hardened to the point of it becoming seared,  and when that happens, than I am not longer walking in Faith but rather am mocking Him, blaspheming against Him. and that is when it becomes unforgivable.
 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2016 by 1to3

[kwikphilly]

Blessings 1 to 3,

Well done Sis,,,,,I think it is easier for you & I &( anyone who has been there)to understand this reality .it is pretty hard to imagine anyone willfully walking away fom Jesus that has truly been in the Born Again,Spirit Filled Relationship but it can happen.I just thank God you & I were not to the point of no return.praise Jesus

  Thanks for sharing, it is not the most popular position to take & one that usually stirs up controversy but it is the plain Truth that Believers need to be aware up....     Love you,Kwik

[Flsnookman]

I find it interesting when Christians speak of something they disagree with we tend to use semantics like.. "But if I willfully continue in sin, knowing that I am willfully disobeying the Holy Spirit of God, and do absolutley nothing about it,not coming to the cross of Christ Jesus with it, then my heart can become more and more hardened to the point of it becoming seared,  and when that happens, than I am not longer walking in Faith but rather am mocking Him, blaspheming against Him. and that is when it becomes unforgivable".  Do you honestly see yourself as being able to become so heart-hardened as to one day suspend your belief in Jesus? The problem with these statements is that we can use words to promote any idea we want (can God make a rock so heavy He can't lift it?) but they are of zero value. 

We  must look inside ourselves and to the Word of God to recognize the real truth. Failing to have faith that we are who God says we are is the main reason for all that is wrong today. God says we are redeemed and sealed and that we are righteous and worthy. I just can not fathom how anyone who knows Jesus could ever say they could reject Him. Yes we may get mad, yes we may stumble but reject Jesus?? Never.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Flsnookman

[Guest Teditis]

[Phl 1:6 KJV] 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:

[1to3]

On 2016-08-27 at 11:13 AM, Flsnookman said:

I find it interesting when Christians speak of something they disagree with we tend to use semantics like.. "But if I willfully continue in sin, knowing that I am willfully disobeying the Holy Spirit of God, and do absolutely nothing about it,not coming to the cross of Christ Jesus with it, then my heart can become more and more hardened to the point of it becoming seared,  and when that happens, than I am not longer walking in Faith but rather am mocking Him, blaspheming against Him. and that is when it becomes unforgivable".  Do you honestly see yourself as being able to become so heart-hardened as to one day suspend your belief in Jesus? The problem with these statements is that we can use words to promote any idea we want (can God make a rock so heavy He can't lift it?) but they are of zero value. 

We  must look inside ourselves and to the Word of God to recognize the real truth. Failing to have faith that we are who God says we are is the main reason for all that is wrong today. God says we are redeemed and sealed and that we are righteous and worthy. I just can not fathom how anyone who knows Jesus could ever say they could reject Him. Yes we may get mad, yes we may stumble but reject Jesus?? Never.

Flsnookman

 By what I read and please correct me if I am mistaken, It looks like you are questioning my faith?

 

To me faith is related also to the faithfulness to what I say I have faith in.

If I say I love God and hate my brother, do I practice His faith or my will?

If I say I do all kind of good things and live righteously before the Lord but have no love, mercy or grace for my fellowman, do I truly have the faith that God intends us to have as children of God?

 

For sure we can stumble in these, but it is important to bring it to the cross the moment we realize that we are in the wrong.

 

I hope you are writing  in Gods love,grace and mercy as I was just responding to this topic as to how I have experienced things and what I understand so far about living in Christ Jesus. My walk with the Lord began in my childhood and  has continued all through my life,with ups and downs, with periods of doubt, rebellion, searching until Christ Jesus the GOOD shepherd , clearly called me back to Him in the fall of 2002. At that the time the call was made quite clear to me form HIM, and I knew that I had to truly now give up certain things if i was really serious in wanting to follow Him. Which I did. and these things I used to have a strong hold over, when I look at them today can see how lost I was, how much these strongholds kept me blinded and away from advancing. Having been given the Grace and Mercy to finally SEE this, I am so grateful to have received and today have no desire to turn back to them, they now  seem quite foreign to me because now I can quite clearly SEE the deception from them.  God did take these strongholds away from me. Praise God

If you are trying to say that I am not a christian for writing what I wrote, please elaborate why you think this?

 

I do realize there are many ministries out there and some are on one side of the fence that say: yes you can loose your salvation if you keep on sinning, while others on the other side of the fence say no  you can't loose your salvation even if you keep on sinning.

 

From my own life experience and in my walk with Christ Jesus so far this is what I have come to understand:

 

"we cannot fool ourselves either , sin is sin and sin destroys.

If and when we are truly saved, we should want to get closer and closer to God, be willing to follow Christ Jesus and be willing to be transformed by His Holy Spirit now working in us, and build a close relationship with Him on a daily basis, and most definitely we will want God to remove ALL of our shortcomings, so to become more and more the child of God He always wanted for us to be.

It may not always happen instantly that all our bad habits are gone at once, ( but it can happen) but the Holy Spirit of God is a very gentle Spirit, and when He shows us that we are in the wrong, He gently nudges us step by step and allows us to SEE we are in the wrong, and IS there to help us and guide us on the right path. His path to LIFE, life more abundantly, his path to wholesome righteousness.

I think then here is the blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, when we become so hard of heart to the point where we completely reject Him and His warning to us. Because then we are no longer caring and fully believing in the consequences of sins or the Power of HIS might and we stop recognizing Him as out TRUE shepherd.

I know that I still make mistakes. I still can get duped, I still can fall, but when I fall, I believe that if I recognize it and quickly try to correct myself from that particular sin mistake by coming to the cross and asking Christ Jesus to forgive me, heal me and take away my shortcomings and cover me and wash me through and through with His divine Blood, than I am truly covered and acceptable, one of His sheep, to one day reunite with God in eternity. But everyday is a new test of faith.

And yes, today I do have now a bigger fear of the Lord as I know more how sin can destroy and keep us away from God

Of course everyday we are faced with new test of faith.

Virtue that is not tested is not true virtue.

how we conduct ourselves in these daily test of faith, are indicators to how we truly are living in faith with God or not.

But if I willfully continue in sin, knowing that I am willfully disobeying the Holy Spirit of God, and do absolutely nothing about it, not coming to the cross of Christ Jesus with it, then my heart can become more and more hardened to the point of it becoming seared,  and when that happens, than I am not longer walking in Faith but rather am mocking Him, blaspheming against Him. and that is when it becomes unforgivable."

for sure until we die, we have the chance of repentance and forgiveness from Christ Jesus, but lets not be deceived, sin can lure us away to the point were we no longer even seek repentance and forgiveness in Christ Jesus. and being aware of this is of crucial importance.

 

I think if one keeps on sinning without any remorse of guilt from it, one needs to look more closely at oneself and ones relationship with God.

Today, I know quite clearly that when I fall into sin, that I am sinning and need to bring it directly to the cross, ask for forgiveness and the capacity to overcome and learn not to repeat in this sin. sometimes this can take many failures until the lesson is finally learned. But as long as I am striving, I trust that my Father God will help me, to become more and more refined in Him

For sure all my life, I have always prayed to God even when I was falling, but for me, God did point out that I needed to let go of certain things, if I was serious in following Him. I did ask Him how and also to remove these hindrances. And I am still continuing to pray to God to help- refine me more and more in HIM. And yes He did and does help me to become able to loose the strongholds in my life.

I sometimes wonder if I would be with God had I died in some of my strayed conditions of the past.

***Believe me it certainly would soothe me to know that yes I would be still with the Lord had I died willfully in my sins even though I claimed to be a christian while sinning and not doing much about changing my sin habits,  but as its stands, I am not quite fully convinced that I would***

I definitely know there is a hell, God did point this out to me quite clearly in 1997. But it took until 2002 for me to get it more clearly sunk-in that consequences of sin, lead us away and not closer to God. and with all of this said, i made a bad turn in 2010 that I let go of in 2011 that has taken me almost up until not to regain my right footing once again with the Lord. Yes in 2011 the Holy spirit of the Lord did warn me on several occasion of something that I was contemplating, but yet, I thought I could handle it, and had to have a big fall to discover, that had I yielded to the Holy Spirit warning me, I would not have had all the misery that befell me from choosing the wrong way.

So I today I know a little better than yesterday, (but I am still learning) and I am more aware that it is so vitally important to stay daily close in living with the Lord and being accountable to Him on a daily basis for my actions.

 

There is a ministry called the "earnest Angley ministry, that I discovered in 2004 that IS a christian ministry and this  ministry DOES preach that if you keep on willfully sinning you will loose your salvation. This Earnest Angley ministry has a healing ministry and I did in 2006 receive a healing through this ministry when I contacted that ministry for prayer and healing.

I don't adhere to any particular ministry and am very careful that what I hear preached is aligned with the word of God.

But I can see how it is of most importance for a christian to say that sin is wrong and we need to cleanse ourselves from sin and pray to have strongholds of sin removed from our lives through Gods only begotten Son Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit of God working in our hearts.

You know  there exists such a thing as to grieve the Holy Spirit with our sins and the Holy spirit of God can keep a distance from us when we are willfully living in sins?

I just found this, (1 Thessalonians 5:19) or “grieve the Holy Spirit of God .   but there is somewhere else  also that I read, if we willfully sin, the holy Spirit of God departs from us, and I can understand this when God is Light and no darkness can unite with Gods light. = 1John chp.1.)

 

 

About grieving the Holy spirit of God

Ephesian 4

 

New Life in Christ
…29Let no unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building up the one in need and bringing grace to those who listen. 30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, outcry and slander, along with every form of malice.…

 

Ephesians ch 5

Walk in Love

5 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. ² And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

³ But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. ⁴ Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. ⁵ For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

^***6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.***

⁷ Therefore do not become partners with them; ⁸ for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord.

 

Walk as children of light ⁹ (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true),

 

¹⁰ and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord.

^***11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.***

¹² For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret. ¹³ But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible, ¹⁴ for anything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it says,

“Awake, O sleeper,
    and arise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”

 

^***15 Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise,***

 

¹⁶ making the best use of the time, because the days are evil.

^***17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.***

^***18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, ¹⁹ addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart, ²⁰ giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, ²¹ submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Wives and Husbands

²² Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. ²³ For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. ²⁴ Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

²⁵ Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, ²⁶ that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, ²⁷ so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.^{[a] 28} In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. ²⁹ For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, ³⁰ because we are members of his body. ³¹ “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” ³² This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. ³³ However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.***

 

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2016 by 1to3

[Flsnookman]

 By what I read and please correct me if I am mistaken, It looks like you are questioning my faith?

No I would never question your faith, I just see people using semantics all the time when they disagree with something. I am sorry if you took that any other way.

As someone who has been healed of alcoholism and addiction I know that Jesus can and will heal us. I also know that it would be absolutely impossible for me to ever deny Jesus. I might "backslide" or my flesh might win sometimes but that is NOT who I am any longer. The whole point of salvation is that our old selves are crucified, we are no longer our old selves. Our true identity is now the new creation we are in Christ. That can never be "undone" and as far as salvation goes we are sealed. Many churches want us to believe we can lose salvation so that they can keep control but again as the Word says if the Son sets you free you are free indeed. 

   I know this is a difficult concept as many many churches teach that it's possible to lose salvation but Jesus and paul both say it is not. When God says we are sealed and redeemed we are sealed and redeemed. Many preachers will take certain verses out of context and try to wrestle control away from God by using fear of damnation as a tool. They say do it my way or else....I prefer to follow THE WAY. 

  Again I apologize for any misunderstanding.