Why is the Psalm 83 War considered a future event?

[WilliamL]

On 9/10/2016 at 4:31 PM, nebula said:

For those that do not know, the Psalm 83 is about Israel being attacked by an alliance of the nations around it with the intent of destroying Israel completely. This has been interpreted to be a prophecy of an upcoming event.

Nothing at all in Psalm 83 says it is a prophecy of a future time. Everything in it says it speaks to events current at the time of its writing -- and that is the case. It is closely related to Psalms 79, 80 and 83, also written by Asaph, and Psalm 89, by Ethan the Ezrahite.

All of the Psalms in Book 3 (Psalms 73-89), were written in the Persian era. The destructions described by Asaph took place during the tumultuous revolutions that occurred throughout the Persian Empire just before and soon after the death of King Darius, when Xerxes had to fight and overcome a usurper in order to take the throne of his father. Egypt has already revolted, and other provinces later followed, including Judea. Xerxes unleashed Judea's ancient foes upon it as punishment, and they gladly plundered the land, as described in the Psalms noted above; while Xerxes concentrated on preparing Persian's main forces to reconquer Egypt.

[Dennis1209]

Psalm 83: War

 

I'm hesitant to post this here as there are many people with very different hermeneutic and eschatological views of scripture. The following is not an attempt to start an eschatology war and argument, but rather share and discuss my end-time views in the last days in which I believe we are living. I'm not dogmatic on this view but it's my interpretation of scripture and the events and characters that are rapidly unfolding. This is pretty long so sorry...

Many good Christian scholars are divided on a prerequisite war before the Gog – Magog invasion, often referred to as “The Psalms 83 War”, prior to the Ezekiel 38-39: Gog / Magog invasion and ultimately the final war, Armageddon. Further, the scholastic camp that believes the “Prerequisite War” will occur are divided on when, before or after the harpazo (rapture of the church). Nevertheless, the timing apparently is very close either side of the harpazo [caught up – Rapture] in my view. I lean to this Psalm 83: war occurring before the harpazo [Rapture].

Based on my Biblical studies, trusted scholars opinions and world events shaping up, I'm of the opinion an Israeli war must occur as a precondition to the Gog / Magog invasion, to set up the conditions outlined in Ezekiel 38 & 39. Here's my reasoning:

Israel's boarders are surrounded by nations that want nothing less than to “wipe Israel off the map” and drive them into the sea. It's a mistake to represent Israel's surrounding enemies as “Arabs”, they are Muslim's. They constantly advocate driving Israel into the sea and erasing them as a nation. This fact is beyond dispute.

It is conspicuous Israel's immediate surrounding neighbors and peoples (Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan surrounding Israel and the Hezbollah, Palestinian refugee camps, etc., bitter enemies of Israel, are not associated with the Gog / Magog (outer ring of nations ONLY) invasion in scripture? Where are they? What happened? Why are they not involved? Perhaps they were previously defeated prior to the Magog invasion?

If you subscribe to the later day “two war theory”, it appears the two wars have separate objectives and goals and could occur any day now. With Russia and China currently propping up the Syrian regime in increasing numbers and war equipment, ports and bases, under the pretense of fighting ISIS, things are getting interesting indeed.

The Prerequisite War [inner ring of nations] “to wipe Israel off the map and into the sea”, and the Gog / Magog war [outer ring of nations] “to take a spoil and plunder”. Ezekiel 38:11 describes Israel living safely in unwalled villages and no gates prior to the Gog / Magog invasion. That certainly is not the case today with their 400+ mile high security fence / wall and surrounded by hostile nations bent on their destruction. When are they not being attacked by the Muslims? Even when Israel conquers the 'inner ring' of hostile nations they wouldn't be able to live securely. As Persia [Iran] and Assyria / Assur [Syria] would still be a threat.

I would postulate based on my eschatology that the Israeli Defense Force [IDF] will make a preemptive nuclear strike on Iran [Persia] to disable its nuclear program building nuclear weapons. Perhaps this is also when Damascus, Syria becomes an uninhabitable heap of ruin? In the Gog / Magog invasion in Ezekiel 38:13 Sheba [Yemen] and Dedan [Saudi Arabia] are not participants but spectators. I wonder why?

The recent discoveries of an abundance of oil and natural gas in and around Israel is very interesting, as well as their technological advances and abundant natural resources on a tiny piece of land. I believe as a result of Israel's victory over the 'inner ring' of nations, Israel will expand its borders to that of what the Lord promised Abraham, or very close to it. That would also help explain why Gog / Magog has a hook in their jaw to draw them and their allies to take a spoil. Israel will then have and control vast natural resources and will not be on guard.

It would appear a prerequisite war victory for Israel of her surrounding 'inner ring' enemies, would set the stage and conditions described in Ezekiel to preclude the end-times final assault on Israel. Although one has to be cautious and not dogmatic in his hermeneutics when scripture is not crystal clear on the subject. But the more that transpires and unfolds, the more the picture become clearer.

Daniel 12:4 (KJV) But thou O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal thee book, even to the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

The mystery's of the Bible that have been hidden from us have become understandable in our generation, our eyes are being opened. What previous generation could even have imagined watching world events unfold immediately in real time via iphone, computer, TV, etc. [the killing of the two witnesses and laying dead for three days]. Human tongues being instantly consumed before the body even drops to the ground [nuclear explosion], etc. etc.

As a Christian and American living in the purported worlds only superpower, its only natural to ask, where is America in all of this? You would think as the worlds superpower the United States would be mentioned in the end-time prophesy? But the Bible is pretty much silent on that question and involves a lot of unsupported speculation.

Much speculation and commentary has been given on this and we can only guess with little scriptural support. [Ezekiel 39: 6 And I will send a fire on Magog , and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles; and they shall know that I am the Lord]. Is the isles described maybe the United States? It is a conjecture / suspicion among many scholars, this could be the United States. If so, perhaps it's something a kin to the 60's Cuba missile crisis and something goes terribly wrong? Perhaps our nation has collapsed due to natural disasters, multiple terrorist strikes, an electromagnetic pulse (EMP), an economic collapse, civil war, a combination of disasters, only the Lord knows. But evidently the US. is inconsequential in the end-times?

To paraphrase a quote from a great Christian evangelist Billy Graham, “if God doesn't judge the United States, he owes an apology to Sodom and Gomorrah”.

One thing is certain though, we have religiously and morally abandoned God as a nation, and delved into the depths of sin, depravity and legalized abominations to our Lord. Calling and legalized good evil, and evil good. I believe our long suffering Lord God has withheld our overdue judgment perhaps because of our historical support for HIS chosen people Israel.

And now we are abandoning Israel and trying to divide the land God covenanted to Israel.

The following order of events is postulated by Dr. Charles Missler of past, present and future prophetic biblical events pertaining to Israel. The first four have been obviously prophetically fulfilled. Israel is God's TIME CLOCK!

ORDER of EVENTS

1. Israel regathered in the land. Ez 37:12, Isa 11: 11, 12, Due 30: 3-5

2. Ancient cities rebuilt and inhabited. Ez 36: 1-5, 8-10

3. Israel meets Muslim / Arab resistance. Jer 49: 16, Zep 2:8, Ez 25: 12, 32: 5, Oba 1: 10

4. Israel establishes an Army for defense. Ez 36: 6&7, 38: 8

5. The adjacent Muslim nations confederate themselves. Ps 83: 1-8. The Palestinians in the tent camps [Ammon, Edom, Philistia] are “pawns” for political reasons. There's an overwhelming amount of room to absorb them in surrounding Muslim nations.

6. This confederacy is committed to the destruction of Israel. Ps 83: 1-5, 12

7. War starts between this confederacy and Israel. Jer 49: 2, 8, 19

8. Title regained “my people Israel”. Hos 1: 8-10, Rom 9: 25, 26, Ez 36: 8-12

9. Israel decisively defeats this confederacy. Oba 1: 9, 18, Ez 25: 13, 14, Jer 49: 10, 20, 21, 23-26, Isa 11: 12-14, 17: 1, 19: 16, 17

10. Israel has become “an exceedingly great Army”. Ez 37: 10, Jer 49: 21

11. Israel takes prisoners of war. Jer 48: 46, 47, 49: 3, 6, 11, Zep 2: 10, 11

12. The whole region is reshaped. Isa 17: 1, Jer 49: 2, 10, Zep 2: 4

13. Israel expands its borders back to the Abrahamic covenant. Oba 1: 19, Jer 49: 2, Isa 19: 18, 19

 

Then Israel dwells securely in the land, but it's not over yet! Because of the Ez 38: business yet to come. The invasion of Gog / Magog.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2016 by Dennis1209

[angels4u]

42 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Psalm 83: War

 

I'm hesitant to post this here as there are many people with very different hermeneutic and eschatological views of scripture. The following is not an attempt to start an eschatology war and argument, but rather share and discuss my end-time views in the last days in which I believe we are living. I'm not dogmatic on this view but it's my interpretation of scripture and the events and characters that are rapidly unfolding. This is pretty long so sorry...

Many good Christian scholars are divided on a prerequisite war before the Gog – Magog invasion, often referred to as “The Psalms 83 War”, prior to the Ezekiel 38-39: Gog / Magog invasion and ultimately the final war, Armageddon. Further, the scholastic camp that believes the “Prerequisite War” will occur are divided on when, before or after the harpazo (rapture of the church). Nevertheless, the timing apparently is very close either side of the harpazo [caught up – Rapture] in my view. I lean to this Psalm 83: war occurring before the harpazo [Rapture].

Based on my Biblical studies, trusted scholars opinions and world events shaping up, I'm of the opinion an Israeli war must occur as a precondition to the Gog / Magog invasion, to set up the conditions outlined in Ezekiel 38 & 39. Here's my reasoning:

Israel's boarders are surrounded by nations that want nothing less than to “wipe Israel off the map” and drive them into the sea. It's a mistake to represent Israel's surrounding enemies as “Arabs”, they are Muslim's. They constantly advocate driving Israel into the sea and erasing them as a nation. This fact is beyond dispute.

It is conspicuous Israel's immediate surrounding neighbors and peoples (Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan surrounding Israel and the Hezbollah, Palestinian refugee camps, etc., bitter enemies of Israel, are not associated with the Gog / Magog (outer ring of nations ONLY) invasion in scripture? Where are they? What happened? Why are they not involved? Perhaps they were previously defeated prior to the Magog invasion?

If you subscribe to the later day “two war theory”, it appears the two wars have separate objectives and goals and could occur any day now. With Russia and China currently propping up the Syrian regime in increasing numbers and war equipment, ports and bases, under the pretense of fighting ISIS, things are getting interesting indeed.

The Prerequisite War [inner ring of nations] “to wipe Israel off the map and into the sea”, and the Gog / Magog war [outer ring of nations] “to take a spoil and plunder”. Ezekiel 38:11 describes Israel living safely in unwalled villages and no gates prior to the Gog / Magog invasion. That certainly is not the case today with their 400+ mile high security fence / wall and surrounded by hostile nations bent on their destruction. When are they not being attacked by the Muslims? Even when Israel conquers the 'inner ring' of hostile nations they wouldn't be able to live securely. As Persia [Iran] and Assyria / Assur [Syria] would still be a threat.

I would postulate based on my eschatology that the Israeli Defense Force [IDF] will make a preemptive nuclear strike on Iran [Persia] to disable its nuclear program building nuclear weapons. Perhaps this is also when Damascus, Syria becomes an uninhabitable heap of ruin? In the Gog / Magog invasion in Ezekiel 38:13 Sheba [Yemen] and Dedan [Saudi Arabia] are not participants but spectators. I wonder why?

The recent discoveries of an abundance of oil and natural gas in and around Israel is very interesting, as well as their technological advances and abundant natural resources on a tiny piece of land. I believe as a result of Israel's victory over the 'inner ring' of nations, Israel will expand its borders to that of what the Lord promised Abraham, or very close to it. That would also help explain why Gog / Magog has a hook in their jaw to draw them and their allies to take a spoil. Israel will then have and control vast natural resources and will not be on guard.

It would appear a prerequisite war victory for Israel of her surrounding 'inner ring' enemies, would set the stage and conditions described in Ezekiel to preclude the end-times final assault on Israel. Although one has to be cautious and not dogmatic in his hermeneutics when scripture is not crystal clear on the subject. But the more that transpires and unfolds, the more the picture become clearer.

Daniel 12:4 (KJV) But thou O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal thee book, even to the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

The mystery's of the Bible that have been hidden from us have become understandable in our generation, our eyes are being opened. What previous generation could even have imagined watching world events unfold immediately in real time via iphone, computer, TV, etc. [the killing of the two witnesses and laying dead for three days]. Human tongues being instantly consumed before the body even drops to the ground [nuclear explosion], etc. etc.

As a Christian and American living in the purported worlds only superpower, its only natural to ask, where is America in all of this? You would think as the worlds superpower the United States would be mentioned in the end-time prophesy? But the Bible is pretty much silent on that question and involves a lot of unsupported speculation.

Much speculation and commentary has been given on this and we can only guess with little scriptural support. [Ezekiel 39: 6 And I will send a fire on Magog , and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles; and they shall know that I am the Lord]. Is the isles described maybe the United States? It is a conjecture / suspicion among many scholars, this could be the United States. If so, perhaps it's something a kin to the 60's Cuba missile crisis and something goes terribly wrong? Perhaps our nation has collapsed due to natural disasters, multiple terrorist strikes, an electromagnetic pulse (EMP), an economic collapse, civil war, a combination of disasters, only the Lord knows. But evidently the US. is inconsequential in the end-times?

To paraphrase a quote from a great Christian evangelist Billy Graham, “if God doesn't judge the United States, he owes an apology to Sodom and Gomorrah”.

One thing is certain though, we have religiously and morally abandoned God as a nation, and delved into the depths of sin, depravity and legalized abominations to our Lord. Calling and legalized good evil, and evil good. I believe our long suffering Lord God has withheld our overdue judgment perhaps because of our historical support for HIS chosen people Israel.

And now we are abandoning Israel and trying to divide the land God covenanted to Israel.

The following order of events is postulated by Dr. Charles Missler of past, present and future prophetic biblical events pertaining to Israel. The first four have been obviously prophetically fulfilled. Israel is God's TIME CLOCK!

ORDER of EVENTS

1. Israel regathered in the land. Ez 37:12, Isa 11: 11, 12, Due 30: 3-5

2. Ancient cities rebuilt and inhabited. Ez 36: 1-5, 8-10

3. Israel meets Muslim / Arab resistance. Jer 49: 16, Zep 2:8, Ez 25: 12, 32: 5, Oba 1: 10

4. Israel establishes an Army for defense. Ez 36: 6&7, 38: 8

5. The adjacent Muslim nations confederate themselves. Ps 83: 1-8. The Palestinians in the tent camps [Ammon, Edom, Philistia] are “pawns” for political reasons. There's an overwhelming amount of room to absorb them in surrounding Muslim nations.

6. This confederacy is committed to the destruction of Israel. Ps 83: 1-5, 12

7. War starts between this confederacy and Israel. Jer 49: 2, 8, 19

8. Title regained “my people Israel”. Hos 1: 8-10, Rom 9: 25, 26, Ez 36: 8-12

9. Israel decisively defeats this confederacy. Oba 1: 9, 18, Ez 25: 13, 14, Jer 49: 10, 20, 21, 23-26, Isa 11: 12-14, 17: 1, 19: 16, 17

10. Israel has become “an exceedingly great Army”. Ez 37: 10, Jer 49: 21

11. Israel takes prisoners of war. Jer 48: 46, 47, 49: 3, 6, 11, Zep 2: 10, 11

12. The whole region is reshaped. Isa 17: 1, Jer 49: 2, 10, Zep 2: 4

13. Israel expands its borders back to the Abrahamic covenant. Oba 1: 19, Jer 49: 2, Isa 19: 18, 19

 

Then Israel dwells securely in the land, but it's not over yet! Because of the Ez 38: business yet to come. The invasion of Gog / Magog.

 

 

 

Could  the psalm 83 war have started in 1967?

[Dennis1209]

15 hours ago, angels4u said:

Could  the psalm 83 war have started in 1967?    From my perspective, looking at it that way quite possibly but it has not concluded. Their land remains tiny, they're under threat and not living securely, and they're certainly not living without walls and gates.

Psalm 83: War

 

I'm hesitant to post this here as there are many people with very different hermeneutic and eschatological views of scripture. The following is not an attempt to start an eschatology war and argument, but rather share and discuss my end-time views in the last days in which I believe we are living. I'm not dogmatic on this view but it's my interpretation of scripture and the events and characters that are rapidly unfolding. This is pretty long so sorry...

Many good Christian scholars are divided on a prerequisite war before the Gog – Magog invasion, often referred to as “The Psalms 83 War”, prior to the Ezekiel 38-39: Gog / Magog invasion and ultimately the final war, Armageddon. Further, the scholastic camp that believes the “Prerequisite War” will occur are divided on when, before or after the harpazo (rapture of the church). Nevertheless, the timing apparently is very close either side of the harpazo [caught up – Rapture] in my view. I lean to this Psalm 83: war occurring before the harpazo [Rapture].

Based on my Biblical studies, trusted scholars opinions and world events shaping up, I'm of the opinion an Israeli war must occur as a precondition to the Gog / Magog invasion, to set up the conditions outlined in Ezekiel 38 & 39. Here's my reasoning:

Israel's boarders are surrounded by nations that want nothing less than to “wipe Israel off the map” and drive them into the sea. It's a mistake to represent Israel's surrounding enemies as “Arabs”, they are Muslim's. They constantly advocate driving Israel into the sea and erasing them as a nation. This fact is beyond dispute.

It is conspicuous Israel's immediate surrounding neighbors and peoples (Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan surrounding Israel and the Hezbollah, Palestinian refugee camps, etc., bitter enemies of Israel, are not associated with the Gog / Magog (outer ring of nations ONLY) invasion in scripture? Where are they? What happened? Why are they not involved? Perhaps they were previously defeated prior to the Magog invasion?

If you subscribe to the later day “two war theory”, it appears the two wars have separate objectives and goals and could occur any day now. With Russia and China currently propping up the Syrian regime in increasing numbers and war equipment, ports and bases, under the pretense of fighting ISIS, things are getting interesting indeed.

The Prerequisite War [inner ring of nations] “to wipe Israel off the map and into the sea”, and the Gog / Magog war [outer ring of nations] “to take a spoil and plunder”. Ezekiel 38:11 describes Israel living safely in unwalled villages and no gates prior to the Gog / Magog invasion. That certainly is not the case today with their 400+ mile high security fence / wall and surrounded by hostile nations bent on their destruction. When are they not being attacked by the Muslims? Even when Israel conquers the 'inner ring' of hostile nations they wouldn't be able to live securely. As Persia [Iran] and Assyria / Assur [Syria] would still be a threat.

I would postulate based on my eschatology that the Israeli Defense Force [IDF] will make a preemptive nuclear strike on Iran [Persia] to disable its nuclear program building nuclear weapons. Perhaps this is also when Damascus, Syria becomes an uninhabitable heap of ruin? In the Gog / Magog invasion in Ezekiel 38:13 Sheba [Yemen] and Dedan [Saudi Arabia] are not participants but spectators. I wonder why?

The recent discoveries of an abundance of oil and natural gas in and around Israel is very interesting, as well as their technological advances and abundant natural resources on a tiny piece of land. I believe as a result of Israel's victory over the 'inner ring' of nations, Israel will expand its borders to that of what the Lord promised Abraham, or very close to it. That would also help explain why Gog / Magog has a hook in their jaw to draw them and their allies to take a spoil. Israel will then have and control vast natural resources and will not be on guard.

It would appear a prerequisite war victory for Israel of her surrounding 'inner ring' enemies, would set the stage and conditions described in Ezekiel to preclude the end-times final assault on Israel. Although one has to be cautious and not dogmatic in his hermeneutics when scripture is not crystal clear on the subject. But the more that transpires and unfolds, the more the picture become clearer.

Daniel 12:4 (KJV) But thou O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal thee book, even to the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

The mystery's of the Bible that have been hidden from us have become understandable in our generation, our eyes are being opened. What previous generation could even have imagined watching world events unfold immediately in real time via iphone, computer, TV, etc. [the killing of the two witnesses and laying dead for three days]. Human tongues being instantly consumed before the body even drops to the ground [nuclear explosion], etc. etc.

As a Christian and American living in the purported worlds only superpower, its only natural to ask, where is America in all of this? You would think as the worlds superpower the United States would be mentioned in the end-time prophesy? But the Bible is pretty much silent on that question and involves a lot of unsupported speculation.

Much speculation and commentary has been given on this and we can only guess with little scriptural support. [Ezekiel 39: 6 And I will send a fire on Magog , and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles; and they shall know that I am the Lord]. Is the isles described maybe the United States? It is a conjecture / suspicion among many scholars, this could be the United States. If so, perhaps it's something a kin to the 60's Cuba missile crisis and something goes terribly wrong? Perhaps our nation has collapsed due to natural disasters, multiple terrorist strikes, an electromagnetic pulse (EMP), an economic collapse, civil war, a combination of disasters, only the Lord knows. But evidently the US. is inconsequential in the end-times?

To paraphrase a quote from a great Christian evangelist Billy Graham, “if God doesn't judge the United States, he owes an apology to Sodom and Gomorrah”.

One thing is certain though, we have religiously and morally abandoned God as a nation, and delved into the depths of sin, depravity and legalized abominations to our Lord. Calling and legalized good evil, and evil good. I believe our long suffering Lord God has withheld our overdue judgment perhaps because of our historical support for HIS chosen people Israel.

And now we are abandoning Israel and trying to divide the land God covenanted to Israel.

The following order of events is postulated by Dr. Charles Missler of past, present and future prophetic biblical events pertaining to Israel. The first four have been obviously prophetically fulfilled. Israel is God's TIME CLOCK!

ORDER of EVENTS

1. Israel regathered in the land. Ez 37:12, Isa 11: 11, 12, Due 30: 3-5

2. Ancient cities rebuilt and inhabited. Ez 36: 1-5, 8-10

3. Israel meets Muslim / Arab resistance. Jer 49: 16, Zep 2:8, Ez 25: 12, 32: 5, Oba 1: 10

4. Israel establishes an Army for defense. Ez 36: 6&7, 38: 8

5. The adjacent Muslim nations confederate themselves. Ps 83: 1-8. The Palestinians in the tent camps [Ammon, Edom, Philistia] are “pawns” for political reasons. There's an overwhelming amount of room to absorb them in surrounding Muslim nations.

6. This confederacy is committed to the destruction of Israel. Ps 83: 1-5, 12

7. War starts between this confederacy and Israel. Jer 49: 2, 8, 19

8. Title regained “my people Israel”. Hos 1: 8-10, Rom 9: 25, 26, Ez 36: 8-12

9. Israel decisively defeats this confederacy. Oba 1: 9, 18, Ez 25: 13, 14, Jer 49: 10, 20, 21, 23-26, Isa 11: 12-14, 17: 1, 19: 16, 17

10. Israel has become “an exceedingly great Army”. Ez 37: 10, Jer 49: 21

11. Israel takes prisoners of war. Jer 48: 46, 47, 49: 3, 6, 11, Zep 2: 10, 11

12. The whole region is reshaped. Isa 17: 1, Jer 49: 2, 10, Zep 2: 4

13. Israel expands its borders back to the Abrahamic covenant. Oba 1: 19, Jer 49: 2, Isa 19: 18, 19

 

Then Israel dwells securely in the land, but it's not over yet! Because of the Ez 38: business yet to come. The invasion of Gog / Magog.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2016 by Dennis1209