The shroud of turin and stigmata

[Guest BacKaran]

I learned so much from the Village schools of the Bible class, it's an amazing set of classes they offer and now you can do the class online. I highly encourage everyone to go or do the full class at least once ?

[TheMatrixHasU71]

17 hours ago, zorgblar said:

Do you believe that the shroud of turin and stigmata are christian?I am not sure about the shroud of turin.But i believe in stigmata.Because in galatians 6:17 doesn't paul say he has stigmata?

The Shroud of turin may be, there is some evidence that proves that but stigmata? No. Paul did not have stigmata, what he did have was the whiplash marks. Paul was never crucified.

The whole stigmata thing is but an attack from demons, that is, amongst the incidents that can be proven "genuine" and not psychological

[TheMatrixHasU71]

9 hours ago, Jayne said:

No, Paul does not say that he bears a stigmata.

What he does say is, " And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. From now on let no one trouble me, for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus. Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen. "

Paul was a physically scarred man.  He had been: snakebit, shipwrecked, beaten [five times], stoned and left for dead, temporarily blinded, and more.

By his own words, Paul said he had received 39 lashes with the whip FIVE times.  That's 195 lashes.  Can you imagine what his back and rest of his body looked like?

Jesus even told Ananias in Acts 9 to tell Paul that he is going to suffer MANY things for His sake.

This has nothing to do with the unhealthy and mystical belief in people spontaneously bleeding from their feet, hands, and head.

You know regarding the 195 lashes.....Jesus only received 40 and nearly died just from that alone. Its the reason why He died so quickly when others usually could last for days on the cross.

It was very common for people to be torn to pieces by the lead tipped cat o nine tails.

Truly it was the Lord's doing that Paul could survive all that

[natasha]

3 minutes ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

You know regarding the 195 lashes.....Jesus only received 40 and nearly died just from that alone. Its the reason why He died so quickly when others usually could last for days on the cross.

It was very common for people to be torn to pieces by the lead tipped cat o nine tails.

Truly it was the Lord's doing that Paul could survive all that

I am under the impression that Jesus actually gave up His life?

when He said 'it is finished'...bowed His head and died

OT prophecy states none of His bones were broken..as per the 2 thieves who were not dead and had their bones broken, but when they came to Jesus He was already dead

 

I think it is important to make note that He gave up His life...not that He died because of the 40 lashes

what do you think regarding this?

 

thanks

 

 

 

[TheMatrixHasU71]

Just now, natasha said:

I am under the impression that Jesus actually gave up His life?

when He said 'it is finished'...bowed His head and died

OT prophecy states none of His bones were broken..as per the 2 thieves who were not dead and had their bones broken, but when they came to Jesus He was already dead

 

I think it is important to make note that He gave up His life...not that He died because of the 40 lashes

what do you think regarding this?

 

thanks

 

 

 

Yes to all of that but that wasn't my point, sister. I was making a comment about how God supernaturally protected Paul from death from the lashings when Jesus, who, Yes, willingly GAVE His life, nearly died from blood loss from the lashes alone, never mind being crucified.

[woundeddog]

I am surprised that the advocates of the Shrouds authenticity do not check what the Bible says-- it relates that when the disciples looked in the tomb the handkerchief which covered the head was folded an laying apart from he other burial clothes-- the shroud or turin appears to have been one piece that supposedly covered the body-- the Bible clearly states that the burial clothes where in at least two pieces--- the shroud is clearly a fraud, and those that apply any religious significants to it are being willfully deceived in light of what the Bible says

[Blessed_Monk]

17 hours ago, zorgblar said:

Do you believe that the shroud of turin and stigmata are christian?I am not sure about the shroud of turin.But i believe in stigmata.Because in galatians 6:17 doesn't paul say he has stigmata?

Some years ago I watched a documentary on History channel about the shroud. "The Real Face of Jesus". I wasn't sure about the shroud's authenticity before. But the particulars this study brought forth concerning the image itself changed my mind. I believe it to be the shroud that wrapped our savior.

 

In my reading Paul seems to draw a lot of conflict to himself according to his journaling in the testament.

In one verse he states he is not lying when he delivers a message to the church. In another scripture he calls himself the chief sinner among all the apostles.  In others he still holds to the old life label of temple pharisee. In other verses he refers to himself multiple times as an apostle. Though I don't recall any of the disciples who were with our Lord doing the same.

And this verse in galatians is much the same. "From now on, let no one cause me trouble."
There is a passage our Lord delivered to his disciples. A warning of things to come after he would leave them. He said that there would be those who would come into the community and claim that he is to be found in various places. This after Jesus would leave the disciples and return home to his father. And our Lord also told the disciples not to believe those claims.

Matthew 24

23 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

[Heavenunlimited]

Yes we need Jesus only, noone can say wether its real or not but theres always a chance its evil. So, when we dont know for sure it would be foolish to take the risk.

[Ezra]

3 minutes ago, Davida said:

I just do not believe that the shroud is in keeping with the Gospel.

The Catholic obsession with relics is related to the rest of their false teachings, and the shroud fits into this category.  When the true Gospel disappears then superstitions replace Bible truth.

[Blessed_Monk]

5 minutes ago, Heavenunlimited said:

Yes we need Jesus only, noone can say wether its real or not but theres always a chance its evil. So, when we dont know for sure it would be foolish to take the risk.

You're saying you believe if we don't know something for certain we should presume it to be evil?