A vesture dipped in blood

[Keras]

Yes, inChrist, we don't need to be rude, but we do need to use all of the Bible teachings to come to a conclusion.  I pointed out Rev 20:4, which clearly states that only those who have been killed for their faith, will be resurrected at the Return. ALL the rest of the dead, Christian or not, in the Book of Life or not; await the GWT judgement. Rev 20:11-15

This truth means there is no 'rapture to heaven', and that is why you object so vehemently to it.  None of the verses you quote prove your case at all.

We Christians are 'apart from the world' - spiritually, never physically.

[Keras]

Your opinions;

1/ that the raptured Christians judge the martyrs, is pure fanciful thinking.  I believe those judges are the 24 Elders of Rev 4:4

2/ That there are 3 resurrections, is unbiblical and not Written anywhere.  The fact that those whose names are written in the book of life are present at the GWT, destroys your false idea of it being only for the wicked.   Your 1 Thess quote refers only to those killed for their faith, as we know from Rev 20:4 and 1 Cor 15, plainly happens AFTER the GWT judgement.

[Keras]

inChrist, we know the 'dead in Christ', who are resurrected at Jesus' Return are only the martyrs, from Rev 20:4-5....the rest of the dead do not come to life until the thousand years have ended.   Your false 'rapture' belief makes you mis-read or ignore anything that doesn't fit that wrong idea.

Re the 24 Elders, your opinion and guess as to who they are is worthless.  I say it again; we Christian do not ever go to heaven. Eventually heaven comes down to earth. Rev 21:1-4

Re Israel, your thinking that ethnic Israel will be redeemed and will take over the holy Land during the Mill, is totally incorrect and unbiblical. Ethnicity counts for nothing since Jesus came, only those Jews who have accepted Jesus will be saved and will join all the Christian believers in the Mill.

 

 

[Keras]

9 hours ago, inchrist said:

 

Nullifies your attempt to engineer the possibility of the 24 elders to be resurrected humans. It is scriptually impossible.

I thought that was what you think they are. You said they were resurrected Christians.

10 hours ago, inchrist said:

 

Now Im a firm supporter of two house theology....however I am not a supporter of your corrupted version of it with replacement theology. Hence why I have to try and reeducate people about two house theology in its correctness.

You may as well give up on me, as I believe what Jesus and the Apostles said.  That is: We Christians are the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16 and there is only one people of God. John 10:16, Ephesians 4:4-6

Realize this, you have believed the lie of the rapture to heaven of the Christians, so you must maintain another lie; separation between the Church and Israel in order to make it work.

[Keras]

4 hours ago, inchrist said:

No Keras, YOU claimed those sitting on the throne in Rev 20:4 are the 24 elders.....Im telling YOU scriptually they are not the 24 elders sitting on the throne in REV 20:4.....based on scriptual fact...Angels do not judge the body of Christ and it is impossible for the 24 elders to be humans since Christ is the only person who has ascended to Heaven by resurrection.

All right, Rev 20:4 just says ; those to whom judgement was committed...  Not an issue for us to be concerned about.

4 hours ago, inchrist said:

No Keras, THAT is not what I said re read what I said.

But you believe in a pre-trib rapture to heaven?  So you must have the Jews remain on earth?  Both are unscriptural notions; one, we are earth beings and our destiny is here. Rev 5:9-10  Two, of the ethnic Jews, only a remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27 

What I believe, and have written about extensively, is what the Prophetic Word does actually say, that God plans for His people. Their protection during His wrath, the gathering into all of the holy Land, their trials and testings and their eventual joining with Jesus in His 1000 year reign.

[Keras]

12 hours ago, inchrist said:

Well no, it is an issue because we have just eliminated the 24 elders, what other candidates do you have whom Judgment was given?

I'll leave that for you to waste worry space over.

12 hours ago, inchrist said:

I'm a Two House theorist, who believes in a prebowl resurrection and rapture for the House of Ephraim (Christianized ethnic Israel with her gentile companions) at the 7th trumpet (Rosh Hashanah) and a Yom Kippur out pouring of the House of Judah at Rev 19 to be 10 days later.

Many verses say that there is only One people of God.  Ephesians 4:4-6   Everyone has their opportunity now to choose Christianity or reject Jesus.

There is no special redemption for the Jews, they lost their chance in 33AD.  Matthew 21:43   Many prophesies say they will receive final punishment. Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18

12 hours ago, inchrist said:

Our destiny is not to be earth beings but heavenly beings....yes we will reign here on earth....because heaven will be manifested here on earth....Heaven is a dominion....not a location.

Where does the Bible say we Christians become Spiritual beings before the end of the Millennium and the GWT Judgement?    After that, yes, as Rev 21-22 describe.  What concerns us right now, is events leading up to the Return of Jesus and nowhere is it said that any living person will be taken to heaven.

[Daniel 11:36]

"There is no special redemption for the Jews, they lost their chance in 33AD."

 

Then how do you explain this [Jeremiah 30]?

And when you have finished I have many more scriptures that are still pending fulfillment involving Israel during the 70th week decreed which is before us

[Keras]

10 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Then how do you explain this [Jeremiah 30]?

And when you have finished I have many more scriptures that are still pending fulfillment involving Israel during the 70th week decreed which is before us

Ephesians 2:11-18 and Galatians 3:24-26 +  explain it. We Christians are now the Israel of God. Galatians 6:16

All the promises of God to his people now belong to every true Christian, from every race, nation and language.  Acts 3:25, Romans 8:16-18 +

You want to maintain a separation between the Church and Israel, contrary to scriptures saying there is now no ethnic distinction, or your 'rapture' belief fails.

Wouldn't it be better to believe the truth and see the great things God has promised to us in Jeremiah 30, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Isaiah 35:1-10 + ?

[Keras]

9 hours ago, inchrist said:

 

Since you are unable to provide ANY scriptual support for the entirety of Christs body to be disqualified from the martyrs to be the 1st resurrected, which you claim is apparently a waste of time....if its such a waste of time, why do you ask such questions?

I did provide it: Revelation 20:4 plainly states that only those killed for their faith  are resurrected at the beginning of the Millennium. Verse 5 then plainly states; the rest of the dead [everyone else] await the GWT Judgement.

I reiterate; it is hard to discuss issues with you, as you don't to read or understand all that is Written.

Re; do humans go to heaven:  I believe Jesus' Words on this subject, not the lies of false teachers.

John 3:13 No one goes to heaven, except the One who came from heaven.

John 8:21-23....our home is on earth...

John 7:34  Where I go, you cannot come.....

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.    Does this mean the arrogant go to heaven?

[Keras]

2 hours ago, inchrist said:

You have just confirmed with me; John has two groups in view in Rev 20:4.  You have failed to convince that one of those groups (Sitting on thrones) in Johns vision are the 24 elders. So what other possible candidates are there sitting on thrones given authority to Judge? Im open to suggestions....after all we are testing arnt we? 

We are simply not told and it is a bad idea to guess.

3 hours ago, inchrist said:

Allow me to reiterate this for you....yes I agree we rule here on earth, what you are falling to understand is the manifestation of Heaven from the invisable to the visable.

God and therefore heaven, is not visibly on earth until after the Millennium. Rev 21:1-4    And only then will Paul's prophecy in 1 Cor 15:50-56 come to pass.  

3 hours ago, inchrist said:

John must of been horrified to think only 11 apostles will be resurrected as John was never martyred.....poor John will have to wait till the end of the millennium.

But what scripture says; only those who did not worship the 'beast' or took his mark and were killed for it, will be resurrected. So in fact none of the martyrs before the last 3 1/2 years will 'come alive', until the final GWT Judgement.

It is always best to read and believe what the Bible actually says.