Why I am a Post-Millennialist

[Limey_Bob]

Why I am Post-Millennialist   (or a Spiritual Post Bi-Millennianist)!

Post-Millennialism teaches that Christ comes back after the Millennium (portrayed as 1,000 years which is 10 - the number of perfection cubed; 10 x 10 x 10 = 1,000)! In Pre-Millennialism, Jesus is said to come back before the Millennium! There are three main pre-millennial schools, each of which relate to the specific timing of the Tribulation (pre-trib, mid-trib and post-trib). On the other hand, with regard to Post-Millennialism, there are two main schools, firstly that that Millennium is situated here upon this earth which will become more and more Christianised over time, a view which is held by many theonomists, but which I would happen to reject. Secondly, that the Millennium refers to the reign of Christ over the souls of dead saints, who are currently ruling with Christ, in heaven ever since his ascension, and that this (millennial reign), will last until his second coming.

 

            This second view is the one I which hold to, basically it places the Millennium in heaven, where Christ rules over the souls of disincarnate spirits, during what is called the “intermediate state.” My own position has sometimes been called the A-Millennium view. But, I would reject that title, as it implies that there is no millennium at all, a position which I certainly and clearly have rejected. Also in much A -Millennium eschatology, Christ’s current reign is said to be within the hearts of his people (saints), many living upon this earth, which again as I stated I firmly reject, as I would regard the Millennial reign of Christ as exclusively situated in heaven. For this reason to save confusion, I am a Post-Millennialist, but one who would place Christ’s (spiritual) reign in heaven, as he is currently reigning, and this isn't a physical reign upon this earth, or within people’s hearts, he’s reigning in heaven NOW!

 

Evidences for my position abound, namely Revelation 20:4 states that those people in the Millennium are said to be “souls,” which indicates only those dead saints in the intermediate state. Also, throughout Revelation, we repeatedly read of God’s throne being in heaven, for instance Revelation 4:2: “a throne set in heaven,” and Revelation 20:4 which states: “I saw thrones” which is speaking of those dead saints who are ruling with Christ, in heaven, during the intermediate state. So I’d argue that the Millennial reign has a heavenly setting, it is not based upon this earth, and neither is it within the hearts of God’s people, as many A-Millennialists have claimed! Also consider the idiocy of Christians assuming that Christ does not reign during the church age, or that this reign has no name, in either the Bible or in Christian Theology! It does have a name! it’s called the Millennium or thousand years!

 

The phrase “a thousand years” is used six times in Revelation 20, traditionally, this refers to the Biblical period of human (biblical) history, personally I would not take it literally, a thousand is simply ten, which is the number of perfection cubed. However, of these six occurrences of the number one thousand, four refer from Adam to Christ, and two of these “one thousand years,” which specifically mention dead souls “reigning with Christ” at Revelation 20:4 and 20:6, apply to the church age, but with regard to Christ’s heavenly reign. Now seeing that this reign must be situated in heaven, and as every relevant mention of God’s throne in the Apocalypse is indeed set in heaven, the 1,000 years of verse 4 added to the 1,000 years of verse 6, gives us a period of approximately 2,000 years; from Christ’s ascension until his second coming which is the natural end of the intermediate state. For death itself is finished (done away with) at Christ’s second coming (1^st Corinthians 15:23-26), this happens; “at the last trump” (1^st Corinthians 15:52), that at Christ’s second coming, and not one thousand years after the second coming, as in Pre-Millennial eschatology.

 

I have come to this position of mine after much dialogue with local Jehovah’s Witnesses (JW). I was intrigued that they, parroting the “latest light” from their Watchtower Society, claimed that Christ’s reign was not instituted at his ascension, despite Colossians 1:13 so clearly stating in the present tense, that at the time Paul had written this, Christ, was already a king over his own kingdom! These JWs would then reason that Christ’s kingdom was instituted in the year 1919, but as I pondered this, I came to realise that the Pre-Millennial view, so beloved of American Dispensationalists and their disciples within the Pentecostal movement, had many similarities to the JW position. Both positions failed to grasp that in scripture, be it the fall, salvation or Christ’s Kingdom, it’s always the spiritual first and then the physical second. So God was not lying when he said to Adam: “in the day you eat of it you shall surely die” (Genesis 2:17). Adam ate the fruit, but his fall was spiritual immediately, his physical death happened much later. So too in salvation, we are saved spiritually first, but the physical redemption of the body is a still future promise, after Christ’s second coming, and that despite what the Television money preachers on TBN and GOD TV will tell you (Romans 8:23).

 

Finally, the first resurrection of Revelation 20:6 is obviously spiritual, (i.e. it refers to the salvation of the soul/spirit), that is of disincarnate “souls,” who are currently reigning with Christ during the intermediate state, which is a period of possibly 1,000 + 1,000 = 2,000 years, if you wish to take these numbers literally as American Dispensationalists like to insist upon. Now although it is not specifically mentioned by name, the second resurrection must be the redemption of the physical body mentioned at Romans 8:23, for remember that the Bible  puts the spiritual first and the physical second with regard to both the fall and also to salvation. This (physical) salvation happens at the last trump (1^st Corinthians 15:52), that is at Christ’s second coming, and not one thousand years after the expiration of some strange earthly millennium, of the saved and unsaved, living together as both disincarnate spirits (souls) as well as people with their souls upon this earth! Finally, remember that the “day of the Lord” (1^st Thessalonians 5:2), which comes as a thief in the night, isn’t referring to the first part of some double-barrelled second coming, called the “rapture,” there is only one second coming and that permanently ends the intermediate state, which I maintain is the (spiritual) reign of Christ in heaven over the souls of his disincarnate saints.

 

Thank you for considering my point of view. I am far from perfect and I'm open to help and correction.

Robert

[FresnoJoe]

Welcome~!

 

[jorge]

millenial is a good term

[missmuffet]

I reject that interpretation.

 

Those who hold to postmillennialism believe that this world will become better and better—all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding—with the entire world eventually becoming “Christianized.” After this happens, Christ will return. However, this is not the view of the world in the end times that Scripture presents. From the book of Revelation, it is easy to see that the world will be a terrible place during that future time. Also, in 2 Timothy 3:1-7, Paul describes the last days as “terrible times.”

Those who hold to postmillennialism use a non-literal method of interpreting unfulfilled prophecy, assigning their own meanings to words. The problem with this is that when someone starts assigning meanings to words other than their normal meaning, a person can decide that a word, phrase, or sentence means anything he wants it to mean. All objectivity concerning the meaning of words is lost. When words lose their meaning, communication ceases. However, this is not how God has intended for language and communication to be. God communicates to us through His written word, with objective meanings to words, so that ideas and thoughts can be communicated.

A normal, literal interpretation of Scripture rejects postmillennialism and holds to a normal interpretation of all Scripture, including unfulfilled prophecy. We have hundreds of examples in Scripture of prophecies being fulfilled. Take, for example, the prophecies concerning Christ in the Old Testament. Those prophecies were fulfilled literally. Consider the virgin birth of Christ (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23). Consider His death for our sins (Isaiah 53:4-9; 1 Peter 2:24). These prophecies were fulfilled literally, and that is reason enough to assume that God will continue in the future to literally fulfill His Word. Postmillennialism fails in that it interprets Bible prophecy subjectively and holds that the millennial kingdom will be established by the church, not by Christ Himself.

https://www.gotquestions.org/postmillennialism.html

[angels4u]

7 hours ago, Limey_Bob said:

Why I am Post-Millennialist   (or a Spiritual Post Bi-Millennianist)!

Post-Millennialism teaches that Christ comes back after the Millennium (portrayed as 1,000 years which is 10 - the number of perfection cubed; 10 x 10 x 10 = 1,000)! In Pre-Millennialism, Jesus is said to come back before the Millennium! There are three main pre-millennial schools, each of which relate to the specific timing of the Tribulation (pre-trib, mid-trib and post-trib). On the other hand, with regard to Post-Millennialism, there are two main schools, firstly that that Millennium is situated here upon this earth which will become more and more Christianised over time, a view which is held by many theonomists, but which I would happen to reject. Secondly, that the Millennium refers to the reign of Christ over the souls of dead saints, who are currently ruling with Christ, in heaven ever since his ascension, and that this (millennial reign), will last until his second coming.

 

            This second view is the one I which hold to, basically it places the Millennium in heaven, where Christ rules over the souls of disincarnate spirits, during what is called the “intermediate state.” My own position has sometimes been called the A-Millennium view. But, I would reject that title, as it implies that there is no millennium at all, a position which I certainly and clearly have rejected. Also in much A -Millennium eschatology, Christ’s current reign is said to be within the hearts of his people (saints), many living upon this earth, which again as I stated I firmly reject, as I would regard the Millennial reign of Christ as exclusively situated in heaven. For this reason to save confusion, I am a Post-Millennialist, but one who would place Christ’s (spiritual) reign in heaven, as he is currently reigning, and this isn't a physical reign upon this earth, or within people’s hearts, he’s reigning in heaven NOW!

 

Evidences for my position abound, namely Revelation 20:4 states that those people in the Millennium are said to be “souls,” which indicates only those dead saints in the intermediate state. Also, throughout Revelation, we repeatedly read of God’s throne being in heaven, for instance Revelation 4:2: “a throne set in heaven,” and Revelation 20:4 which states: “I saw thrones” which is speaking of those dead saints who are ruling with Christ, in heaven, during the intermediate state. So I’d argue that the Millennial reign has a heavenly setting, it is not based upon this earth, and neither is it within the hearts of God’s people, as many A-Millennialists have claimed! Also consider the idiocy of Christians assuming that Christ does not reign during the church age, or that this reign has no name, in either the Bible or in Christian Theology! It does have a name! it’s called the Millennium or thousand years!

 

The phrase “a thousand years” is used six times in Revelation 20, traditionally, this refers to the Biblical period of human (biblical) history, personally I would not take it literally, a thousand is simply ten, which is the number of perfection cubed. However, of these six occurrences of the number one thousand, four refer from Adam to Christ, and two of these “one thousand years,” which specifically mention dead souls “reigning with Christ” at Revelation 20:4 and 20:6, apply to the church age, but with regard to Christ’s heavenly reign. Now seeing that this reign must be situated in heaven, and as every relevant mention of God’s throne in the Apocalypse is indeed set in heaven, the 1,000 years of verse 4 added to the 1,000 years of verse 6, gives us a period of approximately 2,000 years; from Christ’s ascension until his second coming which is the natural end of the intermediate state. For death itself is finished (done away with) at Christ’s second coming (1^st Corinthians 15:23-26), this happens; “at the last trump” (1^st Corinthians 15:52), that at Christ’s second coming, and not one thousand years after the second coming, as in Pre-Millennial eschatology.

 

I have come to this position of mine after much dialogue with local Jehovah’s Witnesses (JW). I was intrigued that they, parroting the “latest light” from their Watchtower Society, claimed that Christ’s reign was not instituted at his ascension, despite Colossians 1:13 so clearly stating in the present tense, that at the time Paul had written this, Christ, was already a king over his own kingdom! These JWs would then reason that Christ’s kingdom was instituted in the year 1919, but as I pondered this, I came to realise that the Pre-Millennial view, so beloved of American Dispensationalists and their disciples within the Pentecostal movement, had many similarities to the JW position. Both positions failed to grasp that in scripture, be it the fall, salvation or Christ’s Kingdom, it’s always the spiritual first and then the physical second. So God was not lying when he said to Adam: “in the day you eat of it you shall surely die” (Genesis 2:17). Adam ate the fruit, but his fall was spiritual immediately, his physical death happened much later. So too in salvation, we are saved spiritually first, but the physical redemption of the body is a still future promise, after Christ’s second coming, and that despite what the Television money preachers on TBN and GOD TV will tell you (Romans 8:23).

 

Finally, the first resurrection of Revelation 20:6 is obviously spiritual, (i.e. it refers to the salvation of the soul/spirit), that is of disincarnate “souls,” who are currently reigning with Christ during the intermediate state, which is a period of possibly 1,000 + 1,000 = 2,000 years, if you wish to take these numbers literally as American Dispensationalists like to insist upon. Now although it is not specifically mentioned by name, the second resurrection must be the redemption of the physical body mentioned at Romans 8:23, for remember that the Bible  puts the spiritual first and the physical second with regard to both the fall and also to salvation. This (physical) salvation happens at the last trump (1^st Corinthians 15:52), that is at Christ’s second coming, and not one thousand years after the expiration of some strange earthly millennium, of the saved and unsaved, living together as both disincarnate spirits (souls) as well as people with their souls upon this earth! Finally, remember that the “day of the Lord” (1^st Thessalonians 5:2), which comes as a thief in the night, isn’t referring to the first part of some double-barrelled second coming, called the “rapture,” there is only one second coming and that permanently ends the intermediate state, which I maintain is the (spiritual) reign of Christ in heaven over the souls of his disincarnate saints.

 

Thank you for considering my point of view. I am far from perfect and I'm open to help and correction.

Robert

 

Welcome Robert

[enoob57]

We will try not to hold your view against you

[Kindle]

8 hours ago, Limey_Bob said:

Why I am Post-Millennialist   (or a Spiritual Post Bi-Millennianist)!

Post-Millennialism teaches that Christ comes back after the Millennium (portrayed as 1,000 years which is 10 - the number of perfection cubed; 10 x 10 x 10 = 1,000)! In Pre-Millennialism, Jesus is said to come back before the Millennium! There are three main pre-millennial schools, each of which relate to the specific timing of the Tribulation (pre-trib, mid-trib and post-trib). On the other hand, with regard to Post-Millennialism, there are two main schools, firstly that that Millennium is situated here upon this earth which will become more and more Christianised over time, a view which is held by many theonomists, but which I would happen to reject. Secondly, that the Millennium refers to the reign of Christ over the souls of dead saints, who are currently ruling with Christ, in heaven ever since his ascension, and that this (millennial reign), will last until his second coming.

 

            This second view is the one I which hold to, basically it places the Millennium in heaven, where Christ rules over the souls of disincarnate spirits, during what is called the “intermediate state.” My own position has sometimes been called the A-Millennium view. But, I would reject that title, as it implies that there is no millennium at all, a position which I certainly and clearly have rejected. Also in much A -Millennium eschatology, Christ’s current reign is said to be within the hearts of his people (saints), many living upon this earth, which again as I stated I firmly reject, as I would regard the Millennial reign of Christ as exclusively situated in heaven. For this reason to save confusion, I am a Post-Millennialist, but one who would place Christ’s (spiritual) reign in heaven, as he is currently reigning, and this isn't a physical reign upon this earth, or within people’s hearts, he’s reigning in heaven NOW!

 

Evidences for my position abound, namely Revelation 20:4 states that those people in the Millennium are said to be “souls,” which indicates only those dead saints in the intermediate state. Also, throughout Revelation, we repeatedly read of God’s throne being in heaven, for instance Revelation 4:2: “a throne set in heaven,” and Revelation 20:4 which states: “I saw thrones” which is speaking of those dead saints who are ruling with Christ, in heaven, during the intermediate state. So I’d argue that the Millennial reign has a heavenly setting, it is not based upon this earth, and neither is it within the hearts of God’s people, as many A-Millennialists have claimed! Also consider the idiocy of Christians assuming that Christ does not reign during the church age, or that this reign has no name, in either the Bible or in Christian Theology! It does have a name! it’s called the Millennium or thousand years!

 

The phrase “a thousand years” is used six times in Revelation 20, traditionally, this refers to the Biblical period of human (biblical) history, personally I would not take it literally, a thousand is simply ten, which is the number of perfection cubed. However, of these six occurrences of the number one thousand, four refer from Adam to Christ, and two of these “one thousand years,” which specifically mention dead souls “reigning with Christ” at Revelation 20:4 and 20:6, apply to the church age, but with regard to Christ’s heavenly reign. Now seeing that this reign must be situated in heaven, and as every relevant mention of God’s throne in the Apocalypse is indeed set in heaven, the 1,000 years of verse 4 added to the 1,000 years of verse 6, gives us a period of approximately 2,000 years; from Christ’s ascension until his second coming which is the natural end of the intermediate state. For death itself is finished (done away with) at Christ’s second coming (1^st Corinthians 15:23-26), this happens; “at the last trump” (1^st Corinthians 15:52), that at Christ’s second coming, and not one thousand years after the second coming, as in Pre-Millennial eschatology.

 

I have come to this position of mine after much dialogue with local Jehovah’s Witnesses (JW). I was intrigued that they, parroting the “latest light” from their Watchtower Society, claimed that Christ’s reign was not instituted at his ascension, despite Colossians 1:13 so clearly stating in the present tense, that at the time Paul had written this, Christ, was already a king over his own kingdom! These JWs would then reason that Christ’s kingdom was instituted in the year 1919, but as I pondered this, I came to realise that the Pre-Millennial view, so beloved of American Dispensationalists and their disciples within the Pentecostal movement, had many similarities to the JW position. Both positions failed to grasp that in scripture, be it the fall, salvation or Christ’s Kingdom, it’s always the spiritual first and then the physical second. So God was not lying when he said to Adam: “in the day you eat of it you shall surely die” (Genesis 2:17). Adam ate the fruit, but his fall was spiritual immediately, his physical death happened much later. So too in salvation, we are saved spiritually first, but the physical redemption of the body is a still future promise, after Christ’s second coming, and that despite what the Television money preachers on TBN and GOD TV will tell you (Romans 8:23).

 

Finally, the first resurrection of Revelation 20:6 is obviously spiritual, (i.e. it refers to the salvation of the soul/spirit), that is of disincarnate “souls,” who are currently reigning with Christ during the intermediate state, which is a period of possibly 1,000 + 1,000 = 2,000 years, if you wish to take these numbers literally as American Dispensationalists like to insist upon. Now although it is not specifically mentioned by name, the second resurrection must be the redemption of the physical body mentioned at Romans 8:23, for remember that the Bible  puts the spiritual first and the physical second with regard to both the fall and also to salvation. This (physical) salvation happens at the last trump (1^st Corinthians 15:52), that is at Christ’s second coming, and not one thousand years after the expiration of some strange earthly millennium, of the saved and unsaved, living together as both disincarnate spirits (souls) as well as people with their souls upon this earth! Finally, remember that the “day of the Lord” (1^st Thessalonians 5:2), which comes as a thief in the night, isn’t referring to the first part of some double-barrelled second coming, called the “rapture,” there is only one second coming and that permanently ends the intermediate state, which I maintain is the (spiritual) reign of Christ in heaven over the souls of his disincarnate saints.

 

Thank you for considering my point of view. I am far from perfect and I'm open to help and correction.

Robert

Welcome To Worthy Limey_Bob!!

[simplejeff]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

I reject that interpretation.

 

Those who hold to postmillennialism believe that this world will become better and better—all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding—with the entire world eventually becoming “Christianized.” After this happens, Christ will return. However, this is not the view of the world in the end times that Scripture presents. From the book of Revelation, it is easy to see that the world will be a terrible place during that future time. Also, in 2 Timothy 3:1-7, Paul describes the last days as “terrible times.”

Those who hold to postmillennialism use a non-literal method of interpreting unfulfilled prophecy, assigning their own meanings to words. The problem with this is that when someone starts assigning meanings to words other than their normal meaning, a person can decide that a word, phrase, or sentence means anything he wants it to mean. All objectivity concerning the meaning of words is lost. When words lose their meaning, communication ceases. However, this is not how God has intended for language and communication to be. God communicates to us through His written word, with objective meanings to words, so that ideas and thoughts can be communicated.

A normal, literal interpretation of Scripture rejects postmillennialism and holds to a normal interpretation of all Scripture

AMEIN and HALLELUYAH !    

A lot of the things stated seem to be from the derivations of (un-named) promoters of the one world religion hundreds of years ago -  all to gain more power and to keep people from finding the KINGDOM OF GOD, 

Likewise to keep people from the TRUTH found in SALVATION in JESUS today (and in the last 20 centuries almost)...

Simple reading of SCRIPTURE by anyone seeking the TRUTH and loving YHWH (GOD) ,   sets people free from all kinds of things,  not just from the penalty of death.   The more complicated men became devising so many various schemes,  the less clear the simple TRUTH of SCRIPTURE became,  and people don't find out , usually,  unless they have access to and read for themselves and believe SCRIPTURE as and when REVEALED by GOD to them.

(from GOD'S WORD) :

" Then opened HE their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,"

i.e. HE was pleased to hide SALVATION from scholars!  and to reveal everything concerning SALVATION to infants..... according to JESUS....

.

[missmuffet]

35 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

AMEIN and HALLELUYAH !    

A lot of the things stated seem to be from the derivations of (un-named) promoters of the one world religion hundreds of years ago -  all to gain more power and to keep people from finding the KINGDOM OF GOD, 

Likewise to keep people from the TRUTH found in SALVATION in JESUS today (and in the last 20 centuries almost)...

Simple reading of SCRIPTURE by anyone seeking the TRUTH and loving YHWH (GOD) ,   sets people free from all kinds of things,  not just from the penalty of death.   The more complicated men became devising so many various schemes,  the less clear the simple TRUTH of SCRIPTURE became,  and people don't find out , usually,  unless they have access to and read for themselves and believe SCRIPTURE as and when REVEALED by GOD to them.

(from GOD'S WORD) :

" Then opened HE their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,"

i.e. HE was pleased to hide SALVATION from scholars!  and to reveal everything concerning SALVATION to infants..... according to JESUS....

.

Too many people give their own words to scripture or spiritualize the words. Yes, some of the content in Revelation is spiritual and needs to be studied but much of it is to be taken literal. If a person takes a literal interpretation of Revelation they would never come up with Post Millennial.

[Kindle]

2 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Too many people give their own words to scripture or spiritualize the words. Yes, some of the content in Revelation is spiritual and needs to be studied but much of it is to be taken literal. If a person takes a literal interpretation of Revelation they would never come up with Post Millennial.

I agree!