Morality

[Kevinb]

Please help.  I see the good in the bible in terms of moral teachings. How do I reconcile parts on stoning and slavery for example?

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Kevin

    Welcome to Worthy,great to have you here.....Can you be more specific,are you talking about Egypt enslaving the Hebrew people or "bondservants"as in the culture and customs of that time etc......there is much in the Old Testament to explain spo what is it that you have a need to "reconcile"

    Stoning was the customary  "capitol punishment" as the LAW called  for,much like in the days when the punishment was "hanging" a man who committed a crime that imposed the death sentence,today men are given a lethal injection or are eloctrocuted......They still do "stone" people in many parts of the world.......

    I'm not sure what you are asking but we(Christians) are not bound by the LAW,Jesus said...

Quote

 

34But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the lawtia?" 37Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Matt. 22:34-40

 Are you a Christian?                                                                                                   With love -in Christ,Kwik

[FresnoJoe]

Welcome~!

Sin

Therefore, dear brothers and sisters, you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do. For if you live by its dictates, you will die. Romans 8:12-13 (New Living Translation)

Kills

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23 (New International Version)

Jesus

but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8 (English Standard Version)

Saves

For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 (Berean Study Bible)

Deal With It

“The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand. “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:35-36 (New American Standard Bible)

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

~

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 (King James Bible)

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.  It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament

[No124get1952]

Kevin,

You ask a very, very good question. It is a good question because in searching out its answer, you will grow in faith. Your questions boil down to law versus grace. The Mosaic Law given in the Old Testament was given to a people who had no law and it was for a time before the coming of Jesus Christ. Both stoning and slavery were set out in the Law and explained very carefully for the people and the priests to follow. God was establishing His people to serve one God at a time when every other culture in the world was polytheistic. Their practices (even the "good" ones) defiled those who followed them and God wanted His people to be holy. Therefore most sin was punishable by death, especially those sins that represented blasphemy or violence against others. Stoning was a punishment that involved everyone because God wanted everyone to realize that the sins requiring stoning were such that they defiled the entire community.

God also outlined slavery in the law, but it was not slavery as we have come to know slavery. When a person became financially insolvent, it was up to his family to take care of them. They obligated themselves as servants and the family took care of them, providing food, shelter, clothing, etc. in return. If, at the year of jubilee, the individual did not want to go free for themselves, they could obligate themselves to permanent servitude (or slavery) by their own free will. This form of slavery was written into the law in order to provide for those who could not provide for themselves. It was NOT the involuntary slavery we have come to know today. Nevertheless, the Law actually provided for slavery in the Old Testament.

When Christ came and established the Era of Grace by His death and resurrection, much of the Law was superceded by grace. Hence, with the woman caught in adultery, the men were ready to stone her, but Jesus set the standard by saying, "he that is without sin, cast the first stone". He then told the adulteress (because she was caught in the act), to go and sin no more. Jesus extended grace and forgiveness. The law against adultery still stands; Jesus did not change that. He merely instituted grace and mercy before judgment. His shed blood paid the sinner's death penalty for sin. So, as we become more mature in faith, we recognize what a terrible price He paid for us and we realize that we were bought with a price...the blood of our Savior, so we are now bondservants (slaves) to Jesus Christ. Again, though, we are willing slaves.

So we can thank God for setting down the Law so we know the difference between right and wrong. And we can thank Jesus for paying the death penalty so we can still have fellowship with God and the promise of eternity in heaven.

[Mike 2]

I would pretty much ditto kwikphilly and add that if you look at the way the bible talks about slaves, the laws are written in a way that dictates treating them way better than the way the surrounding nations did.

Many of the things in the Old Testament that seem primitive compared to our standards of today were actually counter-cultural at that time and even progressive.

 

 

[Guest]

Many things that were man made religion were done in the name of GOD. Just because humans added their own traditions to GOD's plan didn't make it GOD's will. You have to look at the Character of GOD in order to know HIM.

[Riccardo]

I haven't read the other posts so I hope my answers don't double up 

Slavery had its part in giving support to those less fortunate.  If I need a load today I can go to the bank, it those days one could sell ones self for a period in return for their service. In other instances you & you family may have been much better looked after under the service of a master. Where now we are slaves to the system & think we are free. (: .

 Stoning does sound barbaric & have had the same thoughts  earlier in my walk & I'm a slow walker, let me say though I am an old surfer & have been hit by my surfboard to many times, broken noses & stitches to the head & face etc & it doesn't hurt that much at all, only after wile healing, once again I smile (: 

I think when you place yourself in the society of that day living in a village environment of the time given there is a huge deterrent. I have seen first hand punishment dealt out in a village environment it brings disgrace  to the person, family & relatives & village. We had a situation were we could hand the thief over to the police or to the elders, we opted the elders they gave him a severe beating which would deter not just the person but all onlookers. I think you must look at it not just a s a punishment but the best for all of the society.

(WE have seen God's mercy & grace which we don't deserve) & must trust his ways are best, There are many things in the old testament that seem barbaric with the killing of complete societies but God has said he has always given many chances. Ultimately a cancer has to be dealt with & we trust God's ways. 

WE must not forget all his mercy & grace & not let our mind attach itself to a few isolated cases, over His sacrifice.

God Bless

 

[Fidei Defensor]

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 6:26 AM, Kevinb said:

Please help.  I see the good in the bible in terms of moral teachings. How do I reconcile parts on stoning and slavery for example?

Ancient cultures did corporal punishment. The Old Testament shows severity of the Law, but the Law is not obsolete, "By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13). Now anyone can confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead and will be saved (Romans 10:9-10, cross ref John 4:60).  The reason there was stoning is back then mankind has denigrated into such evil, that to deal with disease and murderers there was call to stone. But note, death was blessing from God so we wouldn't be stuck in this sinful awful state, "Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years."The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown. The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. So the LORD said, "I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created--and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground--for I regret that I have made them."But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD." (Genesis 6:2-8). What is clear is that mankind had become so vile and evil, that God had to punishment them for having sexual relationships with angels even, but thank God showed mercy by favoring Noah, and God's favor then was revisited in greater number as Christ who is God came in flesh to save us (Hebrew 1, John 1:1-14). Jesus even went and preached in hades, "After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits--to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ," (1 Peter 3:19-21) where Jesus took the keyes to hades from devil, "Because God’s children are human beings—made of flesh and blood—the Son also became flesh and blood. For only as a human being could he die, and only by dying could he break the power of the devil, who had^[g] the power of death," (Hebrews 2:14), and "Jesus, who for a little while was given a position “a little lower than the angels”; and because he suffered death for us, he is now “crowned with glory and honor.” Yes, by God’s grace, Jesus tasted death for everyone." (Hebrews 2:9), and now Jesus has holds keys to hades, "I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades." (Revelation 1:18).

[2ndglasslemurchampagne]

On 4/18/2017 at 9:26 AM, Kevinb said:

Please help.  I see the good in the bible in terms of moral teachings. How do I reconcile parts on stoning and slavery for example?

The stoning part doesn't apply because that was the punishment during the time of the Jews in the Old Testament. The slavery part isn't like what we think of in American slavery history. It was an indentured servant type thing. Someone owed a debt they agreed to be a servant to the one that loaned them assistance. Besides all that, you can look those things up on the net if you really want to understand. 

Christians are in the New Testament. Stoning and indentured servant positions don't apply anymore. Maybe read the New Testament or a short synopsis of what Jesus came to do in the world and that will help you. 

I'm new too . Welcome to you. 

[Kevinb]

Thanks for responses and apologies for my late reply. 

I hear what you're saying...is this fully addressing all of it though. Doesn't it mention more specific about buying slaves...passing them onto your children. You can beat them as long as they don't die within a couple of days..this doesn't seem something that someone would volunteer into and sounds quite like more modern slavery.

 Also women can be stoned if they don't scream loud enough while being raped. On your wedding night if she's not a virgin take her to her father's house and stone her to death. Stone your kids to death in deuteromony. Breaking the sabbath..homosexuality.. worshipping other gods..blasphemy and more seem have been punished by stoning to death. 

I'm sure that the world was very different then i've only been aware of this last month or so...I was shocked. 

I'd be interested too on responses to the following if I could pose....

So Muslims or those of any other religion or no religion ...or tribes in say Africa who know nothing of Christianity and jesus. These people would all go to hell for eternity even if they've lead caring and morale lives through no fault of their own. And a mass murderer could be "saved" at the end of his life if he accepts God and jesus and go to heaven? 

Thanks for your replies in advance. I've never had anyone to ask this to.