Timing of the seals question

[Spock]

49 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Well, we can eliminate the fact that the 7 seals have not been opened yet. Rev chapter 4-5 is the rapture of the church, and the rapture hasn't happened yet.

That's not what I see brother. I see the rapture in Rev 7:9-17

Edited May 9, 2017 by Spock

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

 

 What I think I know is this:

1. Peace treaty will be signed- probably 7 years

2. Rebuild temple I'm thinking

3. Abomination of desolation

4. 10 Islamic nations unite= 10 toes, Mecca bombed harlot city) 

5. Rapture before Gods wrath is unleasehed

6. Trumpets and bowls

7. Armageddon/ Gog war of Ezekiel= same thing

8. Return of Christ 

9. Sheep and goat judgment

10. 1000 yr rule of Jesus 

Hi Spock,

I agree with a lot of what you say, just a few differences.

(Russian Federation army plus Iran, Ethiopia & Libya, (Ez. 38: 5)nearly wiped out so power vacuum in Middle East)

1. Peace treaty with Israel & a few Islamic nations.

2. Temple already built, though not on sacred site. (Note different word used for sacred site & temple built elsewhere.)

3. A/D

4. 10 Islamic nations unite.

5. Note the wrath of God starts at the beginning of the trib. and the bowl are the `completion` of God`s wrath. (Rev. 15: 1)

6. Continuing of trumpets & start of bowls.

7. Armageddon.

8. Return of Christ.

9. Sheep & goat judgments.

10. 1,000 year rule of Jesus.

 

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

10 minutes ago, Spock said:

1I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

3When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!” 4Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword.

5When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. 6Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two poundsa of wheat for a day’s wages,b and six poundsc of barley for a day’s wages,d and do not damage the oil and the wine!”

7When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” 8I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

Marilyn,

i was silent because honestly, I haven't the foggiest who these 4 horsemen represent. I've read many commentaries but really can't say those opinions are mine. I really don't know.  Wing not said Jesus is one and Satan is two. Both look to be possible although I still don't feel that interpretation. 

Im more concerned about the timing. 

Sorry, I'm no help here.

The timing has to do with what is being judged. As I said God gives us a description of the Federations of man that He will judge.

Clues -

1. Only Federation with a crown, monarchy, that went forth conquering and to conquer.

2. The Federation that killed millions & millions of people.

3. The Federation that started the market economy, (scales) common market, that has spread through out the world.

4.The Federation that will arise in the tribulation, so terrible that is really defies description - terrifying (Dan. 7: 7) killing a fourth of the world`s people with the sword, hunger, death & the beasts of the earth.

regards, Marilyn.

[Heb 13:8]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

That's not what I see brother. I see the rapture in Rev 7:9-17

Rev 7:9-17 is just a continued vision of Rev chapter 4-5 Spock. 

[Revelation Man]

6 hours ago, Spock said:

i was silent because honestly, I haven't the foggiest who these 4 horsemen represent. I've read many commentaries but really can't say those opinions are mine. I really don't know.  Wing not said Jesus is one and Satan is two. Both look to be possible although I still don't feel that interpretation. 

Im more concerned about the timing. 

You are on the right trail. Look at the Four Horses as EVENTS released By Jesus at CERTAIN times. The White Horse is the Anti-Christ being RELEASED TO CONQUER, the Red Horse is Jesus releasing War which of course the Anti-Christ brings forth which takes away the Peace. Thus Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many:.......becomes fulfilled. Then Jesus releases the (Black Horse)Famine judgment, and the Death and Disease Judgment. (Pale Horse). They should be looked at as EVENTS that Jesus Releases upon the masses because they have not heeded God and all of his ways. Even though we disagree about the Rapture (I think) the Rapture has to happen before the Wrath, I think everyone agrees on that, so is this the Wrath of God? 

I think without a doubt, Jesus is releasing these events for a Reason. The 5th Seal is the Martyrs under the alter, the effects of the first four Events/Horses. These Christian Martyrs became saved after the Rapture. 

The 6th Seal is where this world finally understand that this is the Wrath of the Lamb. A great Earthquake, followed by celestial events where the sun turns black and the moon turns blood red and Asteroids fall to the earth. Then the human race finally gets it and says, HIDE US FROM THE Wrath of the Lamb.......The Wrath doesn't start here, the world finally understands what is going on here !!  

Don't look at the White Horse as being the Anti-Christ, this just Represents that Jesus is allowing the Anti-Christ to Conquer and go forth to conquer. Whereas in 2 Thessalonian 2 we are told the Church still being on earth is causing the Holy Spirit to block the Anti-Christ from coming forth. As for the Red Horse its just the EVENT that takes place, Wars come and Peace is taken away. Can we say Satan does this? Not really, Jesus is opening the Seals, but NO DOUBT, Satan is behind all murders and always has been. With him cast Down we know the Dragon goes after the Woman (Israel) so we know Satan is always behind ALL EVIL. But it represents the PEACE BEING TAKEN AWAY, and Jesus has to allow this. So the Horses are not the Anti-Christ or Satan per se, they are Jesus allowing these things to come forth, which heretofore he has blocked. Thus its the Wrath of the Lamb. 

You are looking in the right areas, TIMING and EVENTS are the biggest clues. Not who the Riders are, I just think the Riders represent Jesus' Orders. Pale Horse = DEATH = EVENT which happens during major wars. Black Horse = FAMINE =  EVENTS which happen when many nations go to war. Jesus Wrath is being RELEASED.

[Spock]

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You are on the right trail. Look at the Four Horses as EVENTS released By Jesus at CERTAIN times. The White Horse is the Anti-Christ being RELEASED TO CONQUER, the Red Horse is Jesus releasing War which of course the Anti-Christ brings forth which takes away the Peace. Thus Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many:.......becomes fulfilled. Then Jesus releases the (Black Horse)Famine judgment, and the Death and Disease Judgment. (Pale Horse). They should be looked at as EVENTS that Jesus Releases upon the masses because they have not heeded God and all of his ways. Even though we disagree about the Rapture (I think) the Rapture has to happen before the Wrath, I think everyone agrees on that, so is this the Wrath of God? 

I think without a doubt, Jesus is releasing these events for a Reason. The 5th Seal is the Martyrs under the alter, the effects of the first four Events/Horses. These Christian Martyrs became saved after the Rapture. 

The 6th Seal is where this world finally understand that this is the Wrath of the Lamb. A great Earthquake, followed by celestial events where the sun turns black and the moon turns blood red and Asteroids fall to the earth. Then the human race finally gets it and says, HIDE US FROM THE Wrath of the Lamb.......The Wrath doesn't start here, the world finally understands what is going on here !!  

Don't look at the White Horse as being the Anti-Christ, this just Represents that Jesus is allowing the Anti-Christ to Conquer and go forth to conquer. Whereas in 2 Thessalonian 2 we are told the Church still being on earth is causing the Holy Spirit to block the Anti-Christ from coming forth. As for the Red Horse its just the EVENT that takes place, Wars come and Peace is taken away. Can we say Satan does this? Not really, Jesus is opening the Seals, but NO DOUBT, Satan is behind all murders and always has been. With him cast Down we know the Dragon goes after the Woman (Israel) so we know Satan is always behind ALL EVIL. But it represents the PEACE BEING TAKEN AWAY, and Jesus has to allow this. So the Horses are not the Anti-Christ or Satan per se, they are Jesus allowing these things to come forth, which heretofore he has blocked. Thus its the Wrath of the Lamb. 

You are looking in the right areas, TIMING and EVENTS are the biggest clues. Not who the Riders are, I just think the Riders represent Jesus' Orders. Pale Horse = DEATH = EVENT which happens during major wars. Black Horse = FAMINE =  EVENTS which happen when many nations go to war. Jesus Wrath is being RELEASED.

Everything you said makes sense to me Rev Man.  Even the timing of the rapture- before Gods wrath is unleashed- makes perfect sense to me because the Bible says, "we will not experience His wrath..." 

when does His wrath begin?  Rev 6 tells us?  7th seal = trumpets and bowls.  Therefore, the rapture should take place b4 then.  I see the rapture in Rev 7:9-17 just before trumpets are unleashed in Rev 8. 

[Spock]

7 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Rev 7:9-17 is just a continued vision of Rev chapter 4-5 Spock. 

Where do you get that from? 

Are you reading Rev Man's posts? I think he is spot on. Listen to him.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Spock

[kenny2212]

I think we should consider the fact that the rider on the white horse was given a bow and not another weapon. I think the bow is a weapon of defence. Different from the sword which is weapon of offence. I think this weapon affects who the rider is.

Edited May 9, 2017 by kenny2212

[wingnut-]

29 minutes ago, kenny2212 said:

I think we should consider the fact that the rider on the white horse was given a bow and not another weapon. I think bow is a weapon of defence. Different from the sword which is weapon of offence. I think this weapon affects who the rider is.

Right on kenny, and for clarification on the rider of the white horse we only need to read who John says that is.

Revelation 19:11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

 

God bless

[kenny2212]

Do you guys agree with wingnut that the rider of the 1st horse is Jesus?